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Posted: 1/1/2006 8:49:09 PM EDT
Long story short

The other day I was pulled over b/c of an expired inspection (read: unconstitutionall tax) and expired plate stickers (read: unconstitutional tax). After sitting in my car for 30 min -- wasting gas to power the heater 'cause it was 25 outside, they came up to the windows and said it woud be much easier if I got outta the car.

So I did.

I signed the papers and they said I was free to go. Good stuff, I'll get inspected and pay the $30 or so to get plate stickers, show the judge the receipts and be a few dollars to the good -- If I'd have paid the tax for the past 2 years it would have been much more.

AFter I did all that (and was"Free To Go") they asked if I had any drugs, weapons or bombs in the car. I carefully composed myself ('cause I was getting ready to lose my shit when they asked me if I had one of the b-words) and said "No sir". Of course then they replied that I would not mind if they searched my vehicle.

"Yes sir, I DO Mind" <dumfounded look>.

again they asked and I reminded them that I DID mind if they searched my car.

I do not mean any disrespect to policemen out there, but it was pretty sweet to know that
my rights rise above their powers.

the micro-recorder in my pocket would have helped me out in the end if they had forgotten about the constitution.

Any police officers out there have input or any civilians been in the same situation?
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 5:01:40 AM EDT

Curious...do you pay the fees the Commonwealth/County/City assess you for your CHP? What makes that licensure and fee any less unconstitutional than the motor vehicle fees you refuse to pay?
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 5:29:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By varoadking:
Curious...do you pay the fees the Commonwealth/County/City assess you for your CHP? What makes that licensure and fee any less unconstitutional than the motor vehicle fees you refuse to pay?



Dammit King, Stop bringing logic into the thread
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 5:39:44 AM EDT
I remember once paying for the sticker and some guy came in to pay for one of his cars. They said he had not paid the taxes(back) on the other car and would not let him get a sticker. They got rid of the actual sticker a few years back, but the fees are tacked on to your registration.

I agree that we are overtaxed. But if we are to pay taxes, I do believe the user type taxes, like vehicle, are more fair to people who don't use those services. Anyhow, glad you were able to stand up to your right NOT to have your private property searched.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 6:08:49 AM EDT
I'm curious as to why you feel that these taxes are unconstitutional? Is it because you just don't like paying them? Also if you feel so strongly why didn't you contest this in a court of law and try to have them repealed, why pay them only when it benefits you directly? Don't come back with you didn't vote for them either, you elect representatives to make these decisions for you if you don't like the decisions they make then you should try and elect somebody else next time.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 8:22:43 AM EDT
WTF?

oh.. and a huh?

Link Posted: 1/2/2006 9:25:54 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 11:54:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 556newman:
Long story short

The other day I was pulled over b/c of an expired inspection (read: unconstitutionall tax) and expired plate stickers (read: unconstitutional tax). So you got pulled over because you were breaking the law...After sitting in my car for 30 min -- wasting gas to power the heater 'cause it was 25 outside Again because you were breaking the law, they came up to the windows and said it woud be much easier if I got outta the car.

So I did.

I signed the papers and they said I was free to go. Good stuff, I'll get inspected and pay the $30 or so to get plate stickers, show the judge the receipts and be a few dollars to the good -- If I'd have paid the tax for the past 2 years it would have been much more.

AFter I did all that (and was"Free To Go") they asked if I had any drugs, weapons or bombs in the car. I carefully composed myself ('cause I was getting ready to lose my shit when they asked me if I had one of the b-words) a standard question, I would have asked the same.. losing your mind becasue they asked if you had any bombs? Uhm.. okay??and said "No sir". Of course then they replied that I would not mind if they searched my vehicle.

"Yes sir, I DO Mind" <dumfounded look>.

again they asked and I reminded them that I DID mind if they searched my car.

I do not mean any disrespect to policemen out there, but it was pretty sweet to know that
my rights rise above their powers.

the micro-recorder in my pocket would have helped me out in the end if they had forgotten about the constitution. For what? Did they violate your rights? otherwise.. tighten up the tinfoil..

Any police officers out there have input or any civilians been in the same situation? I think you are a little too excited from a basic run of the mill traffic stop.

Link Posted: 1/2/2006 1:32:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 1:47:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 2:04:52 AM EDT
some taxes are absurd. I don't think the ones you mentioned are all that bad.

in fact, I don't mind most taxes 'cept income tax.

IMO, there should be - gasp - one tax to a municipality. I don't care which: State, Federal, local - they can all fight it out. In fact we should all put our 'taxes' into a general fund, then those three can duke it out over the fund instead of bothering us three (or more) times!

This whole scam of making us pay taxes on property AND income is a bit much too, but I'm fine with that as long as - gasp - the money is (not) spent wisely!

nonetheless, you are DEFINITELY tin-foiling pretty heavy!

Link Posted: 1/3/2006 4:38:22 AM EDT
Personally I believe all the taxes that are applied because I own something are BS. I live in the country, we do not have city water or sewer, no trash pick up, only 1 high school middle school and elementary. Until last year we had no 3rd shift LE meaning in the middle of the night you need a cop your basically SOL. What hardtop roads we do have are taken care of by VDOT and unlike city maintenance services trying to get something fixed or properly maintained is virtually impossible. I actually like these things, they are some of the reasons I moved to where I did, here you do it yourself or it doesn’t get done. But to still pay allot of taxes for resources and services I don’t have pisses me off. Granted they are not as high as you poor northern VA folks,(you know how much Fairfax County brought in last year, this includes permits, taxes, fees, etc. 5.6 BILLION dollars and those roads still suck).

The whole State inspection processes is really BS when the new Mercedes RLS Mcclarion will not pass inspection but I can slap farm use tags on any piece of crap and tool on down the road there is something not right.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 4:57:59 AM EDT


Remember folks, they warned you.
Virginia is a Commonwealth.
They keep you common by taking your wealth.

DaddyDett
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 6:19:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DaddyDett:

Remember folks, they warned you.
Virginia is a Commonwealth.
They keep you common by taking your wealth.

DaddyDett



Link Posted: 1/3/2006 12:58:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2006 12:59:29 PM EDT by rifle-cop624]
Standard interdiction type stop. Make a valid stop for a traffic violation. If the driver or occupants give me the heebies, or just make me curious, I always ask for consent to search. If it pisses people off, oh well. I am polite and professional. They are free to tell me no, or to take a flying fuck, or sometimes they say, ok. And...shock of shocks, sometimes they DO turn out to be scroat-bags, and actually have dope on them, or a felon in posession of a gun!
Wow! Don't get so wrinkled, bro. Copper was doing his job. If he asks 20 people for consent, the law of averages says he'll get something, eventually. You were one of many.

Taxes do suck, but as so many pissed-off defendants like to say in a drunken slur in the back seat, "they pay my salary".
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 1:39:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2006 1:39:21 PM EDT by SHIVAN]

Originally Posted By 556newman:
the micro-recorder in my pocket would have helped me out in the end if they had forgotten about the constitution.



BTW, any good Commonwealth's Attorney would have the tape thrown out before you even got to trial. A person being taped must be notified they are being taped if you plan to use that tape as evidence against them.

Link Posted: 1/3/2006 2:06:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 3:22:07 PM EDT
Virginia is a one party consent State as long as it is not behind closed doors where a reasonable level of privacy is expected, anyone involved outdoors in a conversation may record any conversation where the person engaged in taping is a party of said conversation.


The tin foil is strong with this one Luke.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 4:03:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By VA-gunnut:
Actually, that is not the case in VA. We are one of the few states that doesn't require notification when taping a conversation. This is only applicable if the person taping is part of the conversation. You can't tape other people's conversations.



Well, I didn't know that. Then again, I'm not all secret squireel and shiite.....
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 4:05:17 PM EDT

Where did Newman go?

Link Posted: 1/3/2006 4:34:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 5:02:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By VA-gunnut:
You can also tape phone conversations in VA, as long as you are one of the people talking. You just can't use taped conversations in child custody cases.



Good to know.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 7:44:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2006 7:54:37 AM EDT by DavidPennington]
As previously stated, Virginia is a one party consent state that allows you to record conversations as long as you are part of the conversation.

These conversations can be located anywhere including behind closed doors. There is no requirement that they be in a public place. How else do the police send UC officers and informants into drug houses with recording devices? If you are in the conversation, you can record it. There is no reasonable level of privacy if you are talking to the dude with the recorder---you are sharing whatever with him so there goes the privacy aspect.

What you can't do, without a court order, is plant a recording device to monitor conversations in which no one is aware of the recording. If you plant a remote recording device, you are fine as long as one party being recorded knows what is going on. The same applies to intercepting conversations from afar. As long as one person in the conversation knows they are being monitored, you are cleared hot.

All this is based on being a Virginia LEO since '98 (active 98-03, reserve 03-present) and having spent 4 of my 5 active years working UC dope for a VSP task force, a FBI task force, and, finally, a DEA task force.

As an aside, I have no problem with dudeman recording the traffic stop for his lawyer, defense, whatever. The cop was, likely, also recording the stop on his in car camera. The law allows it and it should benefit both ways.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 10:50:18 AM EDT
Here's a follow up question...afaik, VA law does *not* require a CHP holder to inform an LEO that he is carrying, right? Running your tags tells he/she/them you have a permit, so they'll know you are legally able to carry a concealed weapon...and anyone (barring felons, etc.) can carry one in the car in plain sight.

So, if they ask if you have any weapons in the car, can you tell them to mind their own business?

Now, I'm sure that answer will cause the LEO's "don't question my authoritiy" meter to peg into the red...but would it be *legal* to do so?

Link Posted: 1/4/2006 11:50:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Fenian:
Here's a follow up question...afaik, VA law does *not* require a CHP holder to inform an LEO that he is carrying, right? Running your tags tells he/she/them you have a permit, so they'll know you are legally able to carry a concealed weapon...and anyone (barring felons, etc.) can carry one in the car in plain sight.

So, if they ask if you have any weapons in the car, can you tell them to mind their own business?

Now, I'm sure that answer will cause the LEO's "don't question my authoritiy" meter to peg into the red...but would it be *legal* to do so?




Wouldn't peg my "you will respect my authority button" but it would show a level of disrespect. You get back what you send out.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 2:12:26 PM EDT
The CHP stuff isn't really my area so I don't want to pass on any bad info though ***I think*** you are correct. I would strongly advise not doing anything weird if asked about firearms. While it may not be "right" in the cosmic sense, I imagine hinky answers about "do you have a firearm that you can hurt me with" will get you a quick trip out of the car and onto the ground.

If I were a CHP holder, I'd politely let the cop know that you are carrying a weapon. Don't consider it something you "have" to do but consider it the polite thing to do, like taking off muddy boots before coming into someones house. It's the decent thing to do and 99% of cops will appreciate your courtesy.

While we all want to be "left alone" not everything is an attack on our rights. Some things are just day-to-day life...
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 2:32:53 PM EDT
I was pulled over in Arlington about 6 mos ago for an illegal right turn...was being badgered by my boss about directions to where we were going...so I just plain forgot you can't make a right turn on red where we were.

The officer never asked me whether or not I was carrying, but he *did* approach the car from the passenger side...which I've never ever had them do. He was polite, as I was...he wrote the ticket, I signed it, and we both went on with our days. I thought about it at the time, and wondered what I would have done if he had asked about a gun. As it happened, I was *not* carrying, since our next stop was gonna be Capitol Hill.

As for respect, I agree you give what you get. So maybe I wouldn't quite phrase it like "mind your own business, pig" in a Tommy Chong voice, , but we're in kind of a grey area about what a person should/shouldn't do in this situations.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 3:39:52 PM EDT
The passanger side approach is based on avoiding passing traffic. It's purely a way not to get run over.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 2:46:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DavidPennington:
The passanger side approach is based on avoiding passing traffic. It's purely a way not to get run over.



That's what I would have thought...but the dozens of *other* times I've been pulled over, even on an interstate, no LEO has ever approached me from the passenger side. They should, I suppose, but they never have. Maybe it's a new thing?

Link Posted: 1/7/2006 8:15:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By varoadking:
Where did Newman go?




I've been down at the DMV getting my tags renewed...
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 8:23:28 PM EDT
[
Any police officers out there have input or any civilians been in the same situation? I think you are a little too excited from a basic run of the mill traffic stop.


That may be true. Or maybe I was just excited that I still hat the right to refuse a search of my vehicle. I've talked to people who have had the refusal considered probable cause to search the car anyways.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 2:56:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 556newman:

Originally Posted By varoadking:
Where did Newman go?




I've been down at the DMV getting my tags renewed...



LMAO...
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 9:09:01 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 10:36:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2006 10:43:00 AM EDT by varoadking]
I would agree that refusing a search is not PC in and of itself...but as a former LEO I can tell you that - given enough time - a lawful PC to conduct a search can be found in a great many instances...with due diligence...
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 10:46:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By varoadking:
I would agree that refusing a search is not PC in and of itself...but as a former LEO I can tell you that - given enough time - a lawful PC to conduct a search can be found in a great many instances...with due diligence...



Nothing disrespectful to you personally, but that's exaclty why most of the folks here who get upset with LEO from time to time feel the way they do. We *know* that the consequences of exercising our rights by not agreeing to a search will most likely buy us a whole lot more grief. That doesn't make it right, though.
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