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Posted: 12/14/2005 7:48:37 AM EDT
Everything I've read has been regarding concealed.

I'm getting my first 1911 and am looking into holsters. In the event I decide an IWB will work better I was wondering if you have your shirt tucked behind the firearm so it's fully visible does that count as open or does it really mean you need an OWB? In other words, just having the grip exposed, is that considered open or is this one of those stupid grey areas and the more pronounced the carry is the better?

(This is in obvious reference to the pathetic restaurant ban on concealed)
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 8:16:06 AM EDT
The description of carrying a pistol IWB with the grip showing is enough to qualify as "open-carry" as long as the part of the pistol is visible and recognizible as a firearm. The entire firearm does not have to be visible; only part of it and it must be recognizible as a firearm.

I've done what you describe countless times and no one has bothered me.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 3:14:23 AM EDT
I've done the same thing with my Kimber, IWB with the grip clearly visible. No one has ever said a word to me. I take that back, I did have a Newport News Sheriff come up to me when I was pumping gas and asked me a few questions about 1911's as he was planning on purchasing one from a fellow LEO friend.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 3:17:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tspike:
I've done the same thing with my Kimber, IWB with the grip clearly visible. No one has ever said a word to me. I take that back, I did have a Newport News Sheriff come up to me when I was pumping gas and asked me a few questions about 1911's as he was planning on purchasing one from a fellow LEO friend.



Heh, now that's the kind of LEO converstion to have.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 8:20:24 PM EDT
Be weary of "Open Carry" that is not completely visible. As was described to me during my Concealed Carry Class and also on different occasions, once by a spotsylvania Sherriff and a few times by Federal officers, Open carry means open, not partially concealed. If the weapon is not completely visible it is considered concealed.
Being draped by a jacket for example is considered concealed and if spotted accidentally can casue you grief in the eyes of the law. Not all law enforcemt officers are completely versed in our sate laws. Also many, many officers at the federal level are NOT from the local area and thus again not completely versed in our laws. Heck my answer here is NOT based on my actual knowledge of the law for that matter, only from conversations. So, Ken until you see the letter of the law be weary of carrying partially concealed.
Congratulations on the new .45 I hope it serves you well!

Since I am not quoting the letter of the law please take my advice for what it is, just advice based on actual conversations with Law enforcment officers.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 5:28:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By whisper300: If the weapon is not completely visible it is considered concealed.


Yeah that's my concern since most of the slide will be IWB it's not visible...although it's in a holster which even OWB techically makes it not visible either. There's the rub and you describe it perfectly. It's up to the LEO involved and their definition of 'open'.

Maybe an email to Philip is in order.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 2:42:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2005 2:44:46 PM EDT by PhilipVanCleave]
The officer that said the whole gun needs to be visible is incorrect. Here is the law:

"18.2-308 A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (i) any pistol, revolver, or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind by action of an explosion of any combustible material...

...For the purpose of this section, a weapon shall be deemed to be hidden from common observation when it is observable but is of such deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature."

So, as long as someone observes it and can tell it is a gun and not a can opener, it is considered open carrry. I open carry with a IWB much of the time without a second thought or problem.

A pen gun, for example, would always be considered concealed, even if laying on a table, because you can't tell it is a gun. There is also a belt buckle holster for the NAA 22LR micro revolver. Even though the gun would be in plain view on the front of that belt buckle, it would actuallly be considered concealed as no one would guess it was real.

Hope that helps.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 4:34:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PhilipVanCleave:

Hope that helps.



Heh, bet your ears were burnin'. It's a damn fine thing to have a man such as yourself around here Philip.

Thanks very much!
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 5:22:48 PM EDT
still not sure what the law is here in nova re open carry....
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 6:30:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
still not sure what the law is here in nova re open carry....



Same as it is EVERYWHERE in the commonwealth.

Just 'cause we're in "occupied" NoVa doesn't mean the laws are different.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 6:58:51 PM EDT
i open carried today when we went for lunch at the olive garden.

although that was because i had to cuz they served liquor
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 7:20:02 PM EDT

hidden from common observation


I'm not the enemy, but, it doesn't take much to articulate what effort a person has to extend to confirm the true nature of the item in question.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 3:20:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bulldog1967:

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
still not sure what the law is here in nova re open carry....



Same as it is EVERYWHERE in the commonwealth.

Just 'cause we're in "occupied" NoVa doesn't mean the laws are different.



so I can open carry here..... how does this apply in winter. What's teh story with an OWB holster under a winter coat. ?
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 5:15:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
What's teh story with an OWB holster under a winter coat. ?



under = cant see openly = concealed carry
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 11:21:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
so I can open carry here..... how does this apply in winter. What's teh story with an OWB holster under a winter coat. ?



buy a thigh rig.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 1:41:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:

Originally Posted By bulldog1967:

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
still not sure what the law is here in nova re open carry....



Same as it is EVERYWHERE in the commonwealth.

Just 'cause we're in "occupied" NoVa doesn't mean the laws are different.



so I can open carry here..... how does this apply in winter. What's teh story with an OWB holster under a winter coat. ?



If it's concealed, it's a concealed weapon, Once you take winter coat off and it's visible its open carry.
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