Quoted: Okay, Here's my pix.

Too cool for school.

Quoted: Quoted: Before this thread gets too far along we need to thank VA-gunnut for all his help in pulling off another successful Blackwater class. He helped me out by sending out the information & sign-up emails. It was a big help and let me work on other issues with the class. Thanks for all your help. You're welcome. I'm glad I was able to help. I just wish I could of taken part in the fun.

You know the Virginia Hometown forum has now sent 26 guys through Blackwater in less than a year? Plus we still have the Oct/Nov Phase II.

I'm very proud of this fact.

Other hometown forums consider this stuff "Spam".  

Quoted: Okay, Here's my pix.

CDI Meter is pinned to the Max!!

Here are the equip. issues I saw:

- lack of loctite that allowed screws to come loose. The sling swivel I had on my forened rail had this problem.  It was stated repeatedly by t he instuctors that everyting should get loctite.  They also said to go straight to red loctite and don't mess around with the blue stuff.  

- I had an issue with the rear straps on my MAV+X-harness coming loose, and since I'd cut off the excess they managed to come completely out. Because of the design the vest still worked but was loose fitting, the strap had actually been out for a while before I even realised there was a problem. They didn't have Goop at the Food Lion so I went with Super Glue Gel. The straps were fine after a full day of carbine training and I suspect will continue to be fine in the future. I just hope they won't need to be adjusted any time soon.

- One shooter had problems with a nylon thigh holster (Blackhawk I think) that was difficult to use because of all the snaps and straps and shit in the way. After the first day of shooting he went out and bought a 6004 and was much happier for the remainder of the class. He was one of the very few who didn't have a 6004 at the beginning of the class. In looking at shooters in other classes around there, it seemed like everybody wearing a thigh holster was wearing a 6004.

- There was a problem with an adjustable trigger that was doubling occasionally. Replaced with a CMC trigger thursday evening.

- There was an AR that was getting light hammer strikes. During lunch I had a look at the weapon and noticed that the trigger pin was also walking. Took just a minute to fix.

- The thumb safety on a 1911 broke off. The shooter grabbed his back up 1911 from his car and pressed on.

- More than one person had problems with slings rubbing their neck. I wrapped a triangular bandage around my neck to prevent chafing. Another person used a zip tie around the sling and through the D ring on their shoulder strap to keep it off his neck. A padded sling like the Troy and/or a collared shirt to keep the sling off your neck are a good idea.

- One shooter found out early on the first day that the RRA "star selector" sticks down farther and can be uncomfortable on the firing hand. I gave him a regular selector and he was GTG.

- My Beretta ran 100%.

- My franken AR had a double feed while shooting the mover and when we did the qualification course I had to cycle the bolt several times to get it to chamber a round. I suspect that the problem during the qual was a mag that got stuck, I was using old and well worn mags with original springs and black followers so it wouldn't surprise me. Not sure about the double feed. I just threw the mag on the ground and pressed on with a fresh mag without taking any time for a diagnosis. Maybe it was mag related or maybe not.

- I'm still torn on slings. I prefer the 3-point because it does much more to control the weapon than a single point, but I found myself fighting against the 3-point during some manipulations.

Quoted: Okay, Here's my pix.

How can I save an individual pic?

Jeez - here I go with my first post . . . .

My thoughts:

BLACKWATER WAS INDEED AWESOME.  

I am glad I heeded Templar's advice and "deployed" with iron sights - this was my first tac-class and it seemed to make sense to start with the basics.  I had no problems until the end of day three - i hate to admit it - the "stair/house shooter" setup gave me some problems - not because of my iron sights, but because my wimpy lawyer arms had expired on me.

Templar set me up with a Glock 17 today (sandbox color and all) - I am getting ready for Phase II now.  I love my CZ's, HK's, Hi-Pow's, Springfields, SIGs, Les Baer "Thunder Ranch", etc. . . . but nothing beats a Glock under pressure.  Maybe an HK - I would still prefer not to have to mess with a safety while needing to quickly pop "Habib" in the head.  (I hope that is OK to say on the board!?????)

AR's work great, when they work.  They seem a little fussy - a few guys went without equip. issues; however, even amongst a group of highly educated/skilled/elite AR coniseurs like you all, there were problems.  Even my basic AR was fussy about mags (Armalite lower).  

Don't get mad at me:  I know this is AR15.COM, but I seriously doubt an Arsenal "AK" in .223/5.45 or 7.72 would have required any attention whatsoever

Safariland makes the KING of drop-leg holsters.  I purschased five in Va Beach after the first day I was so pissed off with my Blackhawlk POS!!!  I am not sure that I actually need five, but it just feels good to know they are there should I desire to go tactical on the woodland creatures in the backyard.

I had a three point sling (Specter), which seemed to get in the way during re-loads - if you are going CQB, a single point is definately the bomb.

Thanks to all of you for including me in the group - many of you we very kind and made me feel welcome.  Thanks for sharing mags - full mags, loaders, lube - letting my check out your carbine - that was the best "gun show" i have ever been to.

Warm regards to all,

The_Ferret

ps - I shot 275 with my iron sights on the state dept qualification test - that was the highlight of my trip.

Quoted: Jeez - here I go with my first post . . . .

Welcome to the boards, it was good to meet you.

BLACKWATER WAS INDEED AWESOME.

 Absolutely!

I am glad I heeded Templar's advice and "deployed" with iron sights - this was my first tac-class and it seemed to make sense to start with the basics.  I had no problems until the end of day three - i hate to admit it - the "stair/house shooter" setup gave me some problems - not because of my iron sights, but because my wimpy lawyer arms had expired on me.

That was a very good idea in my opinion.  Not so much from a 'start with the basics' side even though that is true, but also because it is the most likely weapon to be issued if you deploy in the future.  It is important to have confidence in your ability with iron sights and it's good to learn now that even a basic A2 rifle gets heavy after a while so you know you need to hit the gym to build up your arms and shoulders.

but nothing beats a Glock under pressure.  Maybe an HK - I would still prefer not to have to mess with a safety while needing to quickly pop "Habib" in the head.  (I hope that is OK to say on the board!?????)

I agree 100%, but would also suggest you get in some time behind a Beretta as well so that you'll be familiar with the feel of it and its safety lever.  The basic 92FS is a carbon copy of the M9 pistol that is the standard issue pistol in the military.  

I had a three point sling (Specter), which seemed to get in the way during re-loads - if you are going CQB, a single point is definately the bomb.

I had the same issues, as well as finding that the 3 point prevented me from getting the AR up to my 'work station'.

Thanks to all of you for including me in the group - many of you we very kind and made me feel welcome.  Thanks for sharing mags - full mags, loaders, lube - letting my check out your carbine -

Always happy to help out a fellow shooter.

that was the best "gun show" i have ever been to.

Even the instructors seemed to think so.  

ps - I shot 275 with my iron sights on the state dept qualification test - that was the highlight of my trip.

That's good shooting and an important lesson.  Chicks dig good shooting more than they dig cool toys.

Quoted: Templar set me up with a Glock 17 today (sandbox color and all) - I am getting ready for Phase II now.  I love my CZ's, HK's, Hi-Pow's, Springfields, SIGs, Les Baer "Thunder Ranch", etc. . . . but nothing beats a Glock under pressure.

Good to see you a DeGoffs this afternoon.  We didn't make it down to Richmond early enough for lunch with the crew.  Your new Glock is a almost twin of my G17 that I use in IDPA, GSSF and now USPSA production.  I use 9x19s G26 also in the pic in GSSF Amateur Subcompact.

What were the instructors opinions/ thoughts on using SBRs or subguns for this class? What was the max range you fired from?





Its awesome ARFcom and it's members bring stuff like this together.

Quoted: What were the instructors opinions/ thoughts on using SBRs or subguns for this class? What was the max range you fired from?

While in the classroom they discussed the fact that a short barrel is no less accurate than a longer one at realistic ranges.  You've also got to remember that most of the people training there are military so...

The longest distance we fired in the class was 100yards.

Quoted: Quoted: Okay, Here's my pix. How can I save an individual pic?

Let me know which ones you want and I'll email 'em to you.

Quoted: Here are the equip. issues I saw: - lack of loctite that allowed screws to come loose. The sling swivel I had on my forened rail had this problem.  It was stated repeatedly by t he instuctors that everyting should get loctite.  They also said to go straight to red loctite and don't mess around with the blue stuff.   - I had an issue with the rear straps on my MAV+X-harness coming loose, and since I'd cut off the excess they managed to come completely out. Because of the design the vest still worked but was loose fitting, the strap had actually been out for a while before I even realised there was a problem. They didn't have Goop at the Food Lion so I went with Super Glue Gel. The straps were fine after a full day of carbine training and I suspect will continue to be fine in the future. I just hope they won't need to be adjusted any time soon. - One shooter had problems with a nylon thigh holster (Blackhawk I think) that was difficult to use because of all the snaps and straps and shit in the way. After the first day of shooting he went out and bought a 6004 and was much happier for the remainder of the class. He was one of the very few who didn't have a 6004 at the beginning of the class. In looking at shooters in other classes around there, it seemed like everybody wearing a thigh holster was wearing a 6004. - There was a problem with an adjustable trigger that was doubling occasionally. Replaced with a CMC trigger thursday evening. - There was an AR that was getting light hammer strikes. During lunch I had a look at the weapon and noticed that the trigger pin was also walking. Took just a minute to fix. - The thumb safety on a 1911 broke off. The shooter grabbed his back up 1911 from his car and pressed on. - More than one person had problems with slings rubbing their neck. I wrapped a triangular bandage around my neck to prevent chafing. Another person used a zip tie around the sling and through the D ring on their shoulder strap to keep it off his neck. A padded sling like the Troy and/or a collared shirt to keep the sling off your neck are a good idea. - One shooter found out early on the first day that the RRA "star selector" sticks down farther and can be uncomfortable on the firing hand. I gave him a regular selector and he was GTG. - My Beretta ran 100%. - My franken AR had a double feed while shooting the mover and when we did the qualification course I had to cycle the bolt several times to get it to chamber a round. I suspect that the problem during the qual was a mag that got stuck, I was using old and well worn mags with original springs and black followers so it wouldn't surprise me. Not sure about the double feed. I just threw the mag on the ground and pressed on with a fresh mag without taking any time for a diagnosis. Maybe it was mag related or maybe not. - I'm still torn on slings. I prefer the 3-point because it does much more to control the weapon than a single point, but I found myself fighting against the 3-point during some manipulations.

I need to add my thanks to Hoplophile for providing WECSOG services for the group! Several of us couldn't have made it through the course without his expertise!

Before I begin, I want to give enormous thanks to Va_Dinger for making this course happen. This was the best vacation I've had in a long time.

I had intended to give a day-by-day account of what we did, but turns out it all boils down to a few simple concepts.

- Sight alignment, sight picture, trigger control
- Follow through
- A good stance with good follow through means fast follow-up shots
- Make your weapon ready from the workstation

Seriously, that's about it. As amazing as it sounds, these concepts are HARD to grasp, at least for me. I can't tell you how hard it is to slow the F down, aim, breathe and squeeze. Turns out practice helps.

I had one problem during the course: an Aimpoint mount that I hadn't used any threadlocker on. My stupid mistake helped hold up the class while the instructors tried to help me remove my head from my ass. I switched to my backup gun with iron sights and had no problems for the rest of the day. I put Permatex on the suspect screws during lunch that day (I never ate in the cafeteria) and zeroed it the next morning.

Both carbines I used were built from stripped Eagle Arms lowers, RRA LPK's and complete chrome lined uppers I purchased through the EE. No fancy triggers or extra power extractor springs. Both charging handles had the PRI big latch, which I loved. My backup gun with iron sights got further use on day 3 when Chris used it for the majority of the day after his carbine suffered multiple stuck case failures. He had a couple prior to the class, but we were hoping they were due to the Wolf ammo we were shooting before the class. Turns out that was not the case, and he'll be putting a new barrel in his Kryloned carbine very soon.

I had no real problems with my Springfield Armory 1911. It had well over 1k rounds through it before the class. The only major changes from stock were the substitution of a standard GI guide rod in place of the FLGR from SA and a Wolff 18.5 lb recoil spring. I had some issues with Wilson 47D mags not wanting to drop free which was kind of annoying. I had a couple of isolated failures, more than likely due to operator error not the gun. During the classroom portion, the instructors told us of their preference to use the slingshot method to put the handgun in battery versus using the slide release. Some inquired about this being a Glock only thing, but they replied it's their preference because it works across all semi-auto platforms. "I'm here to learn" I said, so no slide release for me. On one of the first drills of the day, I slashed my left index finger open quite nicely on the rear sight of my 1911 (Bo-Mar) slignshotting it back into battery. That SUCKED because it was in a spot where it got progressively worse over the next 3 days. From that point out, I had gloves on for everything. Regardless, I'm looking for a way to remove those Bo-Mars from that slide (any suggestions on a smith or replacement sights?). I ended up shooting my new Glock 19 during the transition drills on day 3 (Hey, they said it works across platforms, I'm gonna try it) and it was a nice change from my 1911. Sight alignment, sight picture, trigger control and I got hits.

There was some discussion prior to the class on the board about what type of zero we would be using. Turns out they taught us the 25 yard zero as predicted. I found the elevation changes to be a real PITA, as I was not accustomed to having to compensate so much for range changes. Some of the improved zeroing methods that allow the sights to more closely track the bullet's flight path would have helped, IMHO.

I did most of the course with a belt mounted pistol holster (I do not like dropleg holsters, though I did give the 6004 one last shot on day 2) and my SOTech Hellcat with Tac Tailor style X harness. I'm very familiar with the rig, and had no problems with any of it. The only quasi issue I had was during transition drills, when my pistol went dry. I went to grab for a reload and the carbine was in the ay over top of the pistol mag pouch. D'oh.

During the pistol portion, it would have been nice to have more belt pouches for reloading, as I only had space for 2 mags. During extended sequences, I was reloading out of my pocket which was kind of annoying. Of course, if I had a Glock, I wouldn't have needed to bring 8 mags to the line. And believe me, I needed 8 mags for some of the sequences we were shooting. When we were shooting falling plates combined with a mover, the mags went by QUICK.

One of the neater things we did was to shoot the State Dept qual course for carbine and handgun. This basically consisted of timed sequences where we had to fire a certain number of shots from a certain postion. I passed the carbine, just missed for handgun. I went over my target for the handgun portion afterwards, and I think I got cheated out of a few points as I had a big hole in the center of my target. Turns out they can't score a hit if that portion of the paper isn't there. Oh well. I know I was shooting substantially better by the end of the course, and that's what really matters.

As mentioned earlier, both instructors carried Glocks. The "Army of Blackwater" M4 was discussed. ARMS SIR 45, Aimpoints in ARMS mounts, Dieter CQD vert grips, CSM gear single point slings (I'm guessing) with some form of mounted white light, in case you're interested. Both instructors professed their preference for the EOTech over the Aimpoint however.

Some guys have mentioned problems they had getting to their workstation because of slings in the way. One of my carbines was using an Israeli-style long 2 point sling while the other had a 3 point. I don't like single points that much, unless it's ona lightweight rifle that's not going to smack me in the balls when I try and transition. Anyways, I was able to slide the 2 point sling around so I could get to my workstation, but the 3 point was not as forgiving. I put a little more slack in the 3 point so it rode a little lower than I would have preferred, but it allowed me to manipulate the weapon properly without having to unsling.

ETA: I never knew how much a plain old A2 flash suppressor helps. MAP's bare muzzle sounded like a .308 compared to our peashooters.  I felt kinda bad for Hoplophile at one point, as he was sandwiched between Mr. Muzzle Blast (MAP) and me shooting a 14.5" with a Cav Comp. Talk about a rock and a hard place.

MAP, check out these links for stuff we talked about:
dsgarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=264 - Cav Comp
www.militarymorons.com/weapons/ar.access.html - Tangodown PR-16 sling mount for full stocks

First off, I really enjoyed meeting everyone.  Secondly the training was great.  I now have a reliable base with which to better prepare for future classes.
Gear Issues:
1) If your gun doesn't run 100% then don't take it. As much as I really enjoyed shooting the back-up that Subzero had brought along, I would have rather shot mine the entire time.  Thanks.
2) I had some issues with the Chip Mccormick 10 round mags feeding the first round.  Only 8 rounders for me from now on.

Over all. this was an excellent experience.  I do see additional training in my future.  Maybe the phase II class.

Thanks again to VA_Dinger and VA-gunnut for the hard work getting this together.  Thanks to my fellow lead slingers for making the class a great time.
Chris

An after action report from the no-so great State of New Jersey

The best part of the class was the fellow members of ARFCOM that I had the pleasure of meeting. I am always amazed at the quality of people that I’ve met through AFRCOM. This class was an example of “divine intervention” in bringing together some great guys. We had folks from Virginia, Indiana, New York and (me) New Jersey. All of whom were nice, courteous, helpful and true gentleman.

Instructors. Our lead instructors were Russ and Forrest. Both outstanding. They not only knew the theory but had the real world experience to back it up.

I had the opportunity to talk some LEO stuff one-on-one with Russ.  Without question if I had to choose one person to come to my aid in a gunfight it would be him. The king of snake eaters. I don’t know if anyone noticed Russ shooting the lateral movers at the 50 yard line. We were shooting ARs with optics and Russ was shooting a G17. He was hitting 8 of 10 shoots. Better that I did.

The Blackwater ranges were excellent. We were shooting on, arguably, the worst ranges in the complex. They were better than any other outdoor range that I’ve ever shot at. The only other complex that comes close, on the East Coast, is the USSS facility in Beltsville MD.

Equipment

Safety Equipment. Good wrap around eye ware is a must. Interchangeable lens a plus with the changing weather. Powered hearing protection is also essential. It allowed you to hear the instructors (and snide comments about my rifle) without becoming deaf from the neighboring ranges. Knee pads are essential with the graved range. A hat and sun screen also comes in handy. A disadvantage of wearing the hat is shooting prone. It can block your vision.

Overall I would go with the KIS-U theory. Keep it Simple and Uncomplicated. The less complex the guns and equipment the less chance for problems.

I shot a custom 1911 built on a Caspian frame and slide. I had -0- failures on the first day. On the second day the safety lever broke off the gun. I was able to shoot through that exercise. I could have continued but it would have required carrying the gun “cocked and unlocked.” I went with a back-up 1911 (a Gunsite Custom).  I used Metalform 7 round mags with round followers. Better that the Wilsons and half the price.


The instructors pushed the Glocks in 9mm. All of the Glocks in the class, to my knowledge, preformed flawlessly. I’m not a big 9mm fan but I will get a G17 by the end of June. It is interesting to note that Russ stated that the Glocks were for experienced shooters. He did not feel they were good for general LEO issue due to having to pull the trigger to dissemble. I know of one ND in a neighboring PD with a .40 Glock while cleaning. A quick trip to the ER was the result.

Holster. Safariland 6004. There is no second place.

Rifle. WESCOG rules. Home built rifles did fine “if” they were built with quality part and done correctly. Ken was available to perform emergency surgery on all of the problems.



My rifle was a PWA lower with a Rock River entry stock and 1” spacer. The upper was a mutt. Colt M4 upper, BM M4 barrel, LaRue 7.0 Rail, Rock River bolt group and a TDI short vertical grip. I did use a SAW Sales extra power extractor spring.  I had no failures. A big disadvantage was the plain barrel. No break or flash hider. This made recoil management difficult. It also caused the class, and instructors, to avoid me while shooting. I got a kick out of all of the comments about the noise and muzzle flash.

When I got home I disassembled my upper so I could send the barrel to ADCO. I noticed that the barrel nut had come loose. The LaRue locking plate held everything together. A big thank you to LaRue for a great design.

What would I change? Not much. I’ll have a compensator installed to help control the recoil. I’ll also go with a single point sling. My 3 point sling worked well but it did block my chest rig for mag changes. I’m also going to get a Tango Down grip for the rifle. I had a gapper and it did not make the grade.

On the optics end I used an Aimpoint in a LaRue mount. It zeroed in 9 rounds and didn’t miss a beat. I may try my EOTech next class for the hack of it.

I'm off to church and will add more when it comes to mind.


Mike

Quoted: The Blackwater ranges were excellent. We were shooting on, arguably, the worst ranges in the complex. They were better than any other outdoor range that I’ve ever shot at. The only other complex that comes close, on the East Coast, is the USSS facility in Beltsville MD.

I wouldn't call them the worst, but they were the most basic.  For example, the pistol range was a basic, open  25 yard range that simply had 24 steel pie plates that could be reset from teh remote panel, 12 paper target holders that could be rotated to the side from the remote panel, a steel mover that is controlled from the panel, and some mounting points for fixed steel plates.  Very basic compared to Roger's Range that has an individual lane for each shooter and steel targets that show and hide themselves like a hogan's alley type setup.  Or the 3 story tall ship simulater that can be used for Marines doing shipboard training with Simunitions.

Here are my  Pics

Thanks to VA Dinger for coordinating the class. It was excellent. I'll start off with the bad and end with the good. Note the good far exceeded the bad so please don't mis-interpret my comments.

The bad:

The pistol portion was extremely basic. Part of it was due to the fact I had recently completed a tactical pistol course put on by Pat Goodale. The  instruction in Pat's class was far superior to the Blackwater pistol class. The Powerpoint presentation Blackwater put on was poorly produced and executed. The instructors had no presentation skills what so ever as they basically read the slides while facing away from the class. I would have expected a company the size of Blackwater to have squared this portion of the program away. In my opinion it was a waste of time to show us how to take down an AR15. I think that class room portion was geared towards newbies. There was too much down time for my taste. Class was supposed to start at 8:30 but never did. The lunch breaks were too long and the first 2 days we did not shoot all that much. The instructors stopped the whole class when folks had equipment failures.

I was way over prepared. I had gotten the impression that the course was more demanding then it was. I was worried about only having 11 mags but six were enough. Gloves were not needed.

The good.

I had a blast . Russ and Forrest were extremely nice guys and very respectful. You guys were great and I hope you don't mind me considering you good friends. I was impressed with everyone's firearms proficiency. It was a rush being a part of everything that was going on around us. There was a ton of full auto fire as well as handgrenade blast all around us. I heard numerous rounds wizz overhead which was very cool . The facility was excellent and I enjoyed the drills we did. I was way more impressed with the carbine portion and would have liked to incorporated the transitioning into the drill we did on day 3.

I am defintely looking forward to taking part 2. I didn't have any equipment failures. My frankengun performed flawlessly. It was a Rock River lower with RR internals sans the JP trigger. I highly recommend it. The upper was a 16" fluted from M&A. I added a Knights RAS 2 with a Larue mount and Aimpoint. I never used my cutdown carry handle BUIS. I'm glad I proofed my gun out in advance as I leearned that I need to loctite the BUIS. I used a Knights VFG and found it very helpful to manage recoil which allowed me to shoot faster. I really enjoyed the speed drills. Peppering the mover was extremely fun. I went thru 1K Lake City Rounds with one light load. The load was strong enough to send the bullet down range and cycle the gun.

I used an H&K Tactical (45) for my side arm with WWB ammo. No issues at all. My Safriland 6004 was excellent and once again I was glad I practiced with it in advance. During the pistol Qual I forgot to hit the safety during the last strong hand 7 shot string. I was only able to get 4 shots off in the alloted time. Despite this I was still able to score enough to qualify.

All in all it was definitely worth it and I highly recommend it. Thanks again VA Dinger.

Bomber

Bomber,
Was it you who commented that you were appreciative the instructors didn't "talk down" to us? It was an excellent point. Those guys have BTDT. They didn't act superior. They just did their jobs and I think they had as much fun as we did.

Quoted: Note the good far exceeded the bad so please don't mis-interpret my comments.

I won't. I just wanted to address the bad for a second.

The pistol portion was extremely basic. Part of it was due to the fact I had recently completed a tactical pistol course put on by Pat Goodale. The  instruction in Pat's class was far superior to the Blackwater pistol class.

I agree the instruction was very basic. I hadn't attended formal pistol instruction in 7 years, so I was appreciative. Also the "normal" basic pistol course is 3 to 5 days. So I would caution the reader about drawing too many conclusions. One more point, this was a "phase I" class. They had to make sure everyone had a base level of knowledgem, and then they had to cram a 3 day course into a day and a half.

The Powerpoint presentation Blackwater put on was poorly produced and executed. The instructors had no presentation skills what so ever as they basically read the slides while facing away from the class. I would have expected a company the size of Blackwater to have squared this portion of the program away.

No arguments here. However, the instructors weren't full time instructors. One had only recently gotten back from a contract overseas. I'm willing to forgive presentation skills when the instructor has just gotten back from having BTDT.

I'm sure we were low on the todem pole for experienced instructors. They had Army, Navy, Navy EOD, several LE agencies, and Blackwater's academy all attending courses of instruction. Make no mistakes gentlemen. The reason Blackwater is what it is today is because of their gov't contracts. I cannot count the number of sailors I have personally sent to Blackwater for training

In my opinion it was a waste of time to show us how to take down an AR15. I think that class room portion was geared towards newbies.

Exactly, we asked for a basic course and that's what we got.

There was too much down time for my taste. Class was supposed to start at 8:30 but never did. The lunch breaks were too long and the first 2 days we did not shoot all that much. The instructors stopped the whole class when folks had equipment failures.

IMO sighting in took the longest. For future classes. Loc-tite your optics and then sight in at 25 yards from the prone position, if at all possible, before you go to the class. Sighting in could have also went much faster IF they would have shot both relays at the same time.

Oh and if you're reading this and thinking about going. Bring a stapler with long staples. It would speed up the paper-hanging process tremendously.

I was way over prepared. I had gotten the impression that the course was more demanding then it was. I was worried about only having 11 mags but six were enough. Gloves were not needed.

Agreed. I had 7 30s and 4 20s. I never broke out the 20s. And I could have gotten by with 5 30s.

Oh and MORE STEEL.

I just wanted to re-iterate that I thoroughly enjoyed the class and took a lot of meaningful knowledge away. I also think it's important that we include the bad along with the good.

Bomber

This is me.

Quoted: Blackwater needs to supply the instructors with a range box/bag with 10 staplers and spotting scopes or at least binoculars. Once you are down to the final two or three guys sighting in trudging back and forth, even at 25 yards, was a time waster when the instructor could've spotted for the shooter from behind him and called adjustments without walking up and examining the target.

+1 on the spotting scope. I even had binoculars in my range bag .

Aimless....thanks for taking the initiative to get the instructors the gift. That was a class act!


Bomber

RE the staplers, from looking at the class descriptions on teh web site it is clear that most of the courses use steel.  paper targets are listed as options at additional costs.  Also, while there was only the one stapler for the class there were personal staplers in use as well.

Quoted: RE the staplers, from looking at the class descriptions on teh web site it is clear that most of the courses use steel.  paper targets are listed as options at additional costs.  Also, while there was only the one stapler for the class there were personal staplers in use as well.

I'm an idiot ....guess what I had in my range bag?

Bomber

Quoted: Quoted: The Blackwater ranges were excellent. We were shooting on, arguably, the worst ranges in the complex. They were better than any other outdoor range that I’ve ever shot at. The only other complex that comes close, on the East Coast, is the USSS facility in Beltsville MD. I wouldn't call them the worst, but they were the most basic.  For example, the pistol range was a basic, open  25 yard range that simply had 24 steel pie plates that could be reset from teh remote panel, 12 paper target holders that could be rotated to the side from the remote panel, a steel mover that is controlled from the panel, and some mounting points for fixed steel plates.  Very basic compared to Roger's Range that has an individual lane for each shooter and steel targets that show and hide themselves like a hogan's alley type setup.  Or the 3 story tall ship simulater that can be used for Marines doing shipboard training with Simunitions.

Bad choice of words on my part. What I was trying to convey was that the lesser ranges at Blackwater are still very good.

Mike

Now for some pics. The first one is a sneak pic of two (2) tier 1 snake eaters cleaning their gats. . .



With this toy you can load'em almost as fast as you can shoot them



This is admin building. Ranges are off to the front right.



Ken making steele dance.



Rick get bonus points for going "old school"



A good 3 pic set of a reload. (photos by Rick)







Some good action shots on the steele







These are the best of the ones that I shot. Not much time for taking pics between relays.

Mike

Well... I thought the instructors did pretty well overall. I enjoyed the experience and although things went a bit slow at times (understandably for a phase one class) I am very pleased with my time at Blackwater. I understand that the instructors were dealing with an unknown with us and shut the class down for our own safety (as well as their liability) when something went wrong with one of us. I am sure if we had the proper credentials ( advanced class / DOD / etc ) things would have went differently. I do think the power point thing was the low point and probably unnecessary, but what do I know, I also hate the seat belt lesson at the beginning of every flight... I am sure the lawyers are involved... That's not a hit Ferret!!!

Anyhow, I used a reasonably stock Kimber 1911 for the pistol portion of the class. The only thing I wish I had done differently is add a ambidextrous safety which I have since ordered. The only issues I had is that sometimes the slide would lock back before the mag was empty. (Hoplophile told me of a possible solution to this which I decided to wait on trying until after the class.) This happened around 3/4 times during the class. I view this, as well as the relatively low mag capacity of a 1911 a huge plus. It forced me to address issues as they came up, unexpectedly and at inopportune times while in a hurry. Not like normal range time when one would probably just stroll back to the bench to address the issue or reload. What better training than this could there be for real life? No other issues at all with my Pistol. I used Wilson 8 and 10 rounds mags for the entire class. I brought a few more mags than I needed but hey, better than not enough. I also used a Safariland drop leg holster that I practically stole from VaDinger a few months ago. I probably cheated myself by not using my Concealed weapons holster but hey, it is not everyday that I get to put on the "cool" stuff. Oh yeah, I used a Blue Force Single point sling. I loved it. Easy on and off of both me and the weapon.

For the Carbine I used a LMT Lower with the Stock trigger. I added a Magpul trigger guard and a Crane/LMT Stock. I used a 14.5 LMT upper with both the LMT enhanced and standard Bolt Groups, PRI Gasbuster CH, a LaRue FF rail system, Tango Down VG, a pinned and welded KAC FS/Mount to get me just past 16",  ARMS 40 BUIS and an EoTech with the LaRue mount.

The lower worked perfectly. The Magpul trigger guard pretty much eliminates the need for a gloves. For shooting that is, gloves are recommended overall for the class as well as protecting your digits. I love the LMT stock, it has to be one of the best ones out there. I was having a few jams / double feeds during the sighting in process, fortunately I was able to get them cleared without holding anyone else up. I think. I decided that the problem was probably due to the LMT enhanced bolt/carrier. I swapped it out for a new LMT standard Bolt group and that was the end of my issues. I was one of the guys that had issues with their sights coming loose. Thread locking compound is a must. 1k rounds at home with zero issues, I figure I subconscious reached down and checked the throw lever all the time at the range... 50 rounds into Blackwater and the gremlins are hard at work. Another good lesson for me. The ARMS 40 worked fine but I am thinking of something new... I typically use a LMT BUIS with my Aimpoint but it would not work with the EoTech / LaRue system I had going on. The EoTech is just wonderful. I usually use an Aimpoint but just a few weeks ago started using the EoTech, I am glad I chose the EoTech, it kind of sucked in the rain though, but I suspect the Aimpoints did as well. Water on the lens for those that have not experienced it is not a show stopper but not a good thing either.

I wore 5.11s for the class, Merrells, UA brand Shirts and under garments all were great. Lucky for me my company works in greasy hot places and I get to have ALL my work clothing purchased by the company. Naturally, I chose the above items for work clothing. I wore a HSG Warlord chest harness, it was a good piece of gear and I had two of the three instructors ask me about it as they were checking out the features. One of the other members of the group also had one, it was obvious to me he had good taste. One of the handiest pieces of gear I had was the Maxpedition Rollypolly dump bag. Very handy for stuffing extra or empty mags in it as well as your hearing protection, knee pads etc. I wore Alta pads with the buckles, they were great. I cannot recall having any issues at all with any of my gear.

A friend went to the class with me, (Mark something or another here on arf. His Aimpoint crapped out on him, seemed to be an electrical issue in the on/off switch. I will report back if anything interesting comes of it. He finished the class with my backup carbine. It had the new see through flip up Aimpoint covers on it. I got them from Grant (G&R tactical) and the one instructor that I noticed checking them out found them very interesting. A must have if you are packing an Aimpoint if a far away land or even around here. Stress might make it tough to get the standard covers open in time, these beauties make it easy.

One of my personal high points was qualifying with both pistol (low end) and the Carbine (high end) on the State Dept test. As well as meeting the other members here. Although I did not get to talk a lot to all of you, everyone seemed to be a good guy and I look forward to seeing you all at the phase 2 class.


Last but not least, thanks again to you Paul for making this happen!

Quoted: A friend went to the class with me, (Mark something or another here on arf. His Aimpoint crapped out on him, seemed to be an electrical issue in the on/off switch. I will report back if anything interesting comes of it.

Oh yeah, I forgot about the Aimpoint problem.  It was clearly the switch because you could turn it on and see the dot, wiggle the switch and the dot would disappear, then knock on the sight iwth your hadn and hte dot would come back.  

bulldog1967 also deserves thanks for personally donating the three Lula's we gave as gifts to the instructors. I tried to give him cash and we would not accept it. Guys like this are the core of ARFCOM.

Quoted: bulldog1967 also deserves some thanks for personally donating the three Lula's we gave as gifts to the instructors. I tried to give him cash and we would not accept it. Guys like this are the core of ARFCOM.

+1

"Do all guy's from Indiana have trouble counting to ten?" - Blackwater USA instructor 05/20/05

LMAO! People in glass houses...

"Hey (VaDinger), looks like you are getting the Blackwater mathematical improvement award!" - Blackwater USA instructor 05/20/05

Looks like you guys had a great time.

Quoted: "Do all guy's from Indiana have trouble counting to ten?" - Blackwater USA instructor 05/20/05 LMAO! People in glass houses... "Hey (VaDinger), looks like you are getting the Blackwater mathematical improvement award!" - Blackwater USA instructor 05/20/05

I've been waiting for you to notice my Sig line.

[Trump]You guys are all fired[/Trump]

Christ! How hard is it to put some screennames in those captions???  

Quoted: [Trump]You guys are all fired[/Trump] Christ! How hard is it to put some screennames in those captions???

Me on the left, privatejoker on the right.



Lets see how I do:

Front row L-R: Dport, Aimless, VaDinger, Bladerunner, Bulldog1967, MAP, Subzero
Back row L-R: Ferret, PrivateJoker, JC, JC's buddy Mark, Hoplophile, Woden, Bomber, Chris914

Thanks bulldog, for the new avatar!

holy cow, two more squads and you would have an ARFCOM platoon

It looks and sounds like you guys had the time of your life!  

I wish I could have made it down to meet you guys.  Hopefully I'll meet some of you at Phase II.

I definitely had a blast there.  Having no real issues really helped.

Gear:  My S.O. Tech Tomcat worked great.  My mid back got a little sore on day 3 but nothing overwhelming.  My Fobus drop leg holster rocked for me.  I really loved it.  Barely noticed it was there.

Clothing:  Mix of 5.11, BDU's and my flight suit.  Liked the flight suit the best.  Under Armor really worked well.   I loved it.  And when my family got together for the May bday's, my brother in law got me the loose fit one.   Gotta love it.  My 5.11 boots worked great too.  Very comfortable.

Guns:  My Sig 226 performed flawlessly.  As did my Frankengun.  Rock River lower with 2 stage trigger, Model 1 upper, A.R.M.S SIR with Eotech sight.  Love my Eotech!!!!!  PracticalTactical.net's Frankensling worked great.

Ammo: 9mm Winchester White box - no issues.  .223 XM193PD.  One split case caused an ejection issue during the end of the DSS cert course.  Not bad for 1200+ rounds of supposedly
bad ammo.


Class:  As mentioned before great instructors with great attitudes.  The classroom stuff could have been skipped and I doubt anyone would have missed it.  More time could have been spent shooting.  We stopped the whole class when there was a rifle that would go down.  And I really would have liked to do the final shooting event again.  That was a blast.  I will be back.

On a final note...my pictures

Glad to see and hear that you guys had so much fun and learned what you did. I can honestly say i hate the fact i couldnt attend. .

I'm editing my video and pulled this still

When can we see the video?

Quoted: When can we see the video?

I should have a small one, who can host it?