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Posted: 7/25/2003 3:46:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/25/2003 3:50:20 PM EDT by cliffy109]
After having several private conversations with several folks, it looks like there is enough interest in another FAL build party. At least I think there is enough interest. I'm tapped out but I am going to participate. I'll answer quesitons, help you pick parts and such, plus I'll bring my timing tool, barrel shaving tool and the other various stuff I've got. I'll also assist in refinishing the kits. If I get a fat enough paycheck in 2 weeks, I might even pick up a receiver for the spare kit I have sitting in my garage. Lord knows what the hell I'd do with another FAL but what the hell right?

So... who is up for this besides Squib and 300 Whisper? Fenian? Longshot? Shivan? Buehler? Who did I forget?
Link Posted: 7/26/2003 3:34:26 PM EDT
sounds good to me. I have an Imbel kit on the way, just trying to figure out what i want to build this one into and where to get a gear imbel receiver that i can get gilberts to transfer for me.
Link Posted: 7/26/2003 4:04:20 PM EDT
Woo woo!

I know my name is already up there, but damn I can't wait.

My parts list is ready. Will begin ordering on Monday. I'll check with FAC to see when more Coonans are coming in. If they're going to be a while, may go with an Imbel receiver and find a US gas piston.

Where is Gilbert's at? I haven't checked to see if VA Arms can get a receiver.
Link Posted: 7/26/2003 9:23:42 PM EDT
Parts list woes...

I'm having the first-build jitters, wanting to make sure that everything is in order. I have looked at two possible lists:

List one:

Tapco: locking lever, locking shoulder, tang screw, rear swivel and screws, hinge screw, Al charging handle (US), CIA hand guard (US), pistol grip (US), buttpad

DSA: complete STG58 front end (may need to have them cut off attachment), stripped aluminum lower (US)

Dan's Sporting Goods: spare parts kit, rear sight

FAC: Coonan receiver (w/carry handle cut)

Penguin: humpback stock (also at Tapco for thrice the price)

Wasn't sure if items were missing from the above list (such as top cover? other misc parts?). So, I looked at the following alternative list, which is easier but still not sure if anything is missing:

List Two:

FAC: STG58 kit, Imbel Gear-logo receiver

TAPCO: FSE hammer-trigger-sear (US x3), gas piston (US), pistol grip (US), Al charging handle (US)

Basically I get the main parts from FAC and the compliance parts from Tapco here. I was hoping that the second list would run about the same in cost, and avoid nagging problems such as missing parts or locking shoulder size issues. Only problem, do I still need to have someone cut off the muzzle attachment? How big of a problem is that?

Thanks for the help! It's a wild world out there, and just making sure that I come in prepared.
Link Posted: 7/27/2003 8:30:03 AM EDT
Your parts list looks pretty good for somebody building up a light weight. One thing you may want to consider is a complete Imbel kit from gunthings.com. That will cost you $160 and will keep you from having to buy all the little parts a-la-carte. Add to that the DSA LW lower, Coonan receiver, CIA forend, Penguin stock, Tapco charging handle and pistol grip and you're there. You may also want to spend $10 at DSA for the aluminum top cover.

As I mentioned to you, the STG barrel is as good as it gets however... I talked to gunthings this week. They have kits but are not satisfied with the barrels they have. They have a batch of excellent condition ones on the way and will be shipping next week. They don't have many kits left so if you go this way, get your money to them quickly.

Gilbert's Small Arms Range is in Lorton and they also have a gunsmith who can shorten the barrel and/or blind pin a muzzle device.
Link Posted: 7/27/2003 2:20:44 PM EDT
Gilbert's phone is 703 550-8005. Cliffy is the smith you're referring to Tim? Tim's a nice guy. The basic deal with gilbert's is that if you're doing a transfer from a dealer or individual, no problem. But if you're buying from a wholesaler that he has bought from in the past ernie typically likes you to purchase it from him (ie + dealers markup). Whisper bought a receiver from him, what did he charge you whisper?
Link Posted: 7/27/2003 6:46:14 PM EDT
Many thanks for the info. I believe I am going to go the kit route to save some possible trouble. I assume the kit includes everything except the upper receiver.

Are there any major difference in quality between the Coonan and Imbel (Gear-logo) receivers? I understand having the latter would require another US part elsewhere, which I could replace with a gas piston from Tapco. Wanted to make sure I won't have any problems with an Imbel in my plinker.

BTW--Notice that a date hasn't been mentioned yet. I have about 2-3 weeks of travel coming up in Sept.
Link Posted: 7/28/2003 3:46:46 AM EDT
I don't think there is much, if any, difference in quality between the two. Imbels are great receivers, but of course it is not a US part.
Link Posted: 7/28/2003 6:43:02 AM EDT
I'd like to show up and provide solidarity and moral support. I can also provide an airbrush if people want to play with "gun kote" type refinishing , or camoing stocks.
Link Posted: 7/28/2003 7:05:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By curt:
Gilbert's phone is 703 550-8005. Cliffy is the smith you're referring to Tim? Tim's a nice guy. The basic deal with gilbert's is that if you're doing a transfer from a dealer or individual, no problem. But if you're buying from a wholesaler that he has bought from in the past ernie typically likes you to purchase it from him (ie + dealers markup). Whisper bought a receiver from him, what did he charge you whisper?



$272 total for a Coonan receiver from FAC.
And very nice guys.
Link Posted: 7/28/2003 7:16:38 AM EDT
Uuuuug.

I really want to try this.

Just a quick reply now to mark this thread and I'll stop by later to read it, and the other FAL thread, and figure out WTH I need to do...

--LS
Link Posted: 7/28/2003 10:15:28 AM EDT
This seems to be shping up nicely. Longshot, you're at the right place for answers to questions. The FAL files is an incredible resource but it can be intimidating at times. We are all friends here so don't be afraid to ask what may sound like remedial questions. We want this done right.
Link Posted: 7/28/2003 1:07:40 PM EDT
provided i can get the moolaa together for my reciever im in too. im putting in an order for an HTS from moses' group buy at falfiles.com this week, and i just got some US floorplates from DSA so all i need is my reciever.
i might want to come even if i can t get the cash in time.

any of you guys have experience at cutting barrels and recrowning? i started cutting mine but i chickened out, so now i have to get it cut by someone else or maybe do it with some help from one of you guys that has some exp.
Link Posted: 7/28/2003 1:44:33 PM EDT
This is going to be a bigger party than the last one! That's great! So far it looks like 300Whisper, Curt, Squib, Longshot, Davidp14 and myself are in with Angst along for the ride.

Anyone else?
Link Posted: 7/28/2003 2:42:43 PM EDT
Compliance parts ordered. BTW, TAPCO may be having a sale on their US FAL pistol grip (item STK204223). I phoned in my order and got it for $2 (two bucks).

Calling Ernie at Gilbert's tomorrow to get the ball rolling on the receiver. Going to go with the Imbel. FAC won't have the Coonan's in for about 2 weeks, and even then may not be able to fill their backorder. Must be a lot of FALaholics out there.
Link Posted: 7/28/2003 2:45:07 PM EDT
About those receivers... If Ernie is hosing you on the price, you can always contact Templar down in Mechanicsville. Its a bit of a hike but he can do it for only a trasfer fee. No taxes and no mark-up.
Link Posted: 7/28/2003 3:31:00 PM EDT
david, i cut mine and it was no big deal. I used a metal cutoff wheel in my circular saw, then used my belt sander to square it up and clean it, then used a cutter i got from brownells (which i could bring) to square up the muzzle and then a marble with valve lapping compound to finish the crown.

Cliffy. Where the heck is mechanicsville? I'm not paying earnie +$70 for a transfer.
Link Posted: 7/28/2003 3:52:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By curt:


Cliffy. Where the heck is mechanicsville? I'm not paying earnie +$70 for a transfer.



Its a bit North East of Richmond. About 1 hour and 20 minutes down 95. Templar works at DeGoffs and I think they charge a $20 transfer fee. They are on file with FAC. I'm going to call him in a couple of days because I would prefer to get my receiver from Dealer's Warehouse at www.tdwsales.com. They have Imbel receivers that are NOT imported by Century. I'm still pissed at Century for what they did to Dan. If you're ever going to sell the thing, you're better off not having the CIA import mark anyway.
Link Posted: 7/28/2003 5:35:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/28/2003 5:42:15 PM EDT by Squib]

Originally Posted By cliffy109:
[I'm still pissed at Century for what they did to Dan. If you're ever going to sell the thing, you're better off not having the CIA import mark anyway.



Okay, I've heard nothing but bad about Century, but what did they do to Dan?

I sold a gun once. Actually, traded it. Got a good deal, but still miffed that I got rid of a gun. Do the FAC Imbel gear-logo receivers have the CIA import stamp? The FAC price is still a little lower than TDW, so not sure which way I'm going. Will decide tomorrow.
Link Posted: 7/28/2003 6:17:55 PM EDT
Hi guys...looks like you're at it again! Well, I'm still too tapped out to buy a receiver...I'm saving money for the SEBR, or an Eagle Match AR10, haven't decided which. BTW, I STILL have both those kits...I'd be willing to sell both of the dirt cheap, and toss in a few odds and ends to help round out someones build, or just to have as spare parts. While each kit is missing one or 2 minor pieces, ALL of the big stuff is there. If anyone is interested, shoot me an email.

I'd once again be happy to come buy and watch the masters at work...let me know where and when!
Link Posted: 7/28/2003 6:52:51 PM EDT
Fenian--

Your IM box is full, but I sent you an e-mail. If you still have the kits, shoot me a message and let me know what you have and what you're willing to part with them for.

Thanks!
Link Posted: 7/28/2003 7:26:15 PM EDT
Hey guys, we charge a flat $25.00 transfer fee for anything we don't already stock, which means if you want a receiver, we charge you $25.00.

I have FFL's on file with FAC, Dealer's Wharehouse, and DSA. Century basically screwed Dan Tobin by buying a FAL kit from him, then turning it over to ATF because it included the center piece of the receiver with the full auto ejector in place.

Century also has a well deserved bad rep among guys who are seriously into FAL's, and if you decide to sell a home built FAL with Century on the receiver, you might run into a problem getting rid of it, even though Century had nothing to do with the manufacture.

Mechanicsville is 6 miles NE of Richmond, and it's about a 50 minute hike to Fredricksburg from there. Basically a straight shot down 95 South onto 295 South (towards the Beach) and then take the first exit you see for Mechanicsville (Rt. 360 West). Take first exit (Rt.360 Business) and go through two lights. We're a block down on the right hand side.

If you guys want to do a transfer through us, NO Problem, BUT PLEASE call me or email me first so that I know it's coming. If something arrives without our ordering it, it could get shipped back, so let me know if you want to do something first.

Our phone # is 1-800-362-3029. Ask for Tim (that's me).

I'll be glad to help you guys out any way I can. I already have 2 FAL's and don't need anymore, but I'm always happy to help increase EBG (Evil Black Gun) ownership!
Link Posted: 7/28/2003 8:20:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Squib:
Fenian--

Your IM box is full, but I sent you an e-mail. If you still have the kits, shoot me a message and let me know what you have and what you're willing to part with them for.

Thanks!



I deleted some IM, there should be some room now...I sent you some email, but it bounced back...check your IM box, I just sent you a message.
Link Posted: 7/28/2003 9:21:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/28/2003 9:23:10 PM EDT by whisper300]
BTW Guys. I bought one receiver from Ernie (Gilberts)and one from Tim (Degoffs).
Ernie was a nice guy, but Templar (Tim) spent over two hours with me going over other gun related items I wanted for the future. I picked up some loopy rings and mounts from him and he cut me some slack on the price, and as he stated he only chrged me a transfer fee for the receiver.
So Gilberts = $272 (about)
Templar = $ 230 (about)
Take your pick

And Templar spends time on the board to boot!

Thank's again Tim, I'm gonna be visiting you soon.

To cut Gilberts some slack they did do all the legwork for me. Thru Templar I had to call FAC and order receiver myself and pay for it on C/C, but, Tim walked me thru the whole process. Easy as 123.....
Link Posted: 7/29/2003 6:22:49 AM EDT
i just put some ar mags and 10/22 stuff on the EE to finance the FAL. hopefully it will sell.

i didnt know that FAC was out of coonan's, i was planning on using it as a US part. guess ill have to get one more part and get an imbel.

so what are some prospective dates for this shin-dig? hopefully not too soon so i can get some cash together.
Link Posted: 7/29/2003 7:27:00 AM EDT
When? Well, Sundays are about the only time that works for me. I'm figuing last August or the first part of September.

I'm going to be contacting Dealer's Warehouse in the next few days to order a receiver. I know I'm paying more, but it is worth it to me to avoid giving Century my money. I'll also be using Templar for the transfer.
Link Posted: 7/29/2003 7:35:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cliffy109:
When? Well, Sundays are about the only time that works for me. I'm figuing last August or the first part of September.

I'm going to be contacting Dealer's Warehouse in the next few days to order a receiver. I know I'm paying more, but it is worth it to me to avoid giving Century my money. I'll also be using Templar for the transfer.



first part of sept. sounds good to me. that'll give me extra time.

also not a bad idea about getting the rec. from TDW. i might be willing to do that too.
Link Posted: 7/29/2003 8:02:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/17/2003 8:29:05 PM EDT by whisper300]
Oh man, I have not even finished the last two completely and the ball is rolling again. I may wind up sitting this one out due to financial reasons, (I spent too much last time!) and the fact that I will probably have my parents staying with us for the next two months or so.
Link Posted: 7/29/2003 3:05:33 PM EDT
Spoke to Tim today, and am getting hooked up with an Imbel from Dealer's Warehouse. Decided to go with them after hearing about the CIA stamp, and the Dan event. Tim was great to work with, even being mindful enough to ensure calls were discreet if necessary (fortunately I'm not married, yet).

I can be around the first two weekends around Sept (30 Aug and 7 Sep), but not sure what happens after that with travel. If I miss the build, is there a good 'smith in the area that specializes in assembling FALs?
Link Posted: 7/30/2003 4:23:41 AM EDT
templar,
I'm putting you guys in my PDA. As soon as i can talk myself into ignoring all the gun related money i've been spending lately i'll be talking with you guys.
Link Posted: 7/31/2003 2:16:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Squib:



Howdy...I think you're having email problems...I've had 4 emails to you bounced back to me. I *think* I sent you an IM, if not, just reply here and I'll send the info again.
Link Posted: 8/1/2003 7:37:26 PM EDT
A good end has come to a rather blah week. I was greeted with a "delivered" status on my parts from Tapco when tracking on UPS.com. Came home to find a happy little box stuffed with shredded paper and US-made goodies. Receiver should arrive next Tuesday, and the kit should ship the same day. Need to get down to DeGoff's to pick it up, and find someone to remove the threads from the kit barrel.

Anyone know of a person who can cut and recrown a barrel? Would like the job to be good enough not to affect the accuracy much. Of course, I could probably do it and not affect my accuracy.
Link Posted: 8/1/2003 7:39:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Fenian:

Originally Posted By Squib:



Howdy...I think you're having email problems...I've had 4 emails to you bounced back to me. I *think* I sent you an IM, if not, just reply here and I'll send the info again.



Yes, that's my ISP. It has issues at times. I received your last e-mail on 31 July, and just replied. Send another (better) address to use. Thanks!
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 4:11:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/2/2003 4:12:38 PM EDT by Templar]
Squib, I'll call you as soon as your baby is ready to be picked up!

Talk to you later!
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 9:59:41 PM EDT
Templar whats going on, This is Cliff Messer. Everybody on here I want to let you know Tempalr (Tim) is probally one of the most knowledgable person I have ever dealt with and definitly takes his time with you either purchasing a firearm or just asking questions.
By the way were is party to be held at ?

Thanks
Cliff
Link Posted: 8/3/2003 9:40:38 AM EDT
Look forward to talking with you curt!

Cliff, thanks for the compliments, only reason I stay in the business is because I enjoy talking guns too much!
Link Posted: 8/3/2003 5:39:20 PM EDT
So i might have gotten another builder for our FAL build. He's this russian guy i talk to at the range at quantico. I directed him to this site and hopefully he'll pop up and introduce himself.
Now if we could just get some wile e coyote t shirts...
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 10:10:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SOCOM:

By the way were is party to be held at ?

Thanks
Cliff



The last I had heard, 300Whisper was donating basement space but due to financial considerations, he'll probably not be actually building one. He lives down in Fredericksburg.

We haven't settled on an exact date yet but the concensus seems to be the last Sunday of August or the first of September. I think the first Sunday in September is a holiday weekend but that's OK by me.

Perhaps its time for a role call of those who are going to be building and when is good for you.

Cliffy109 will be building an R3 (Rhodesian) on an Imbel and will be experamenting with camo finishes. The first Sunday of Sept is my preferred day. Who else?
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 2:45:23 PM EDT
Squib will be building a mostly Imbel...Imbel kit with Imbel receiver. It won't get more Imbel, unless you were in Brazil and didn't need compliance parts.

The last Sunday of August is 31 Aug, which is the Labor Day holiday weekend. The first Sunday of September will be 07 Sep. I prefer 07 Sep, but can do either.

BTW--I can provide snacks and/or beverages as a thank you for Whisper's hospitality and everyone else's technical knowledge. And I do take requests.
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 3:42:55 PM EDT
I just ordered my receiver today. I don't know what i'll build so i'll probably just barrel my receiver. Cliffy any suggestions? I got my lightweight 18" imbel, my STG58, what can i do with an imbel parts kit and imbel receiver?
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 3:54:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By curt:
I just ordered my receiver today. I don't know what i'll build so i'll probably just barrel my receiver. Cliffy any suggestions? I got my lightweight 18" imbel, my STG58, what can i do with an imbel parts kit and imbel receiver?



Here are two ideas:

1. Authentic 50.00. Keep it all Imbel. Sand Blast all the parts and use Gun Kote satin black to match the original finish. Keep the Barrel at 21" and get one of the FSE fake Belguim devices. I like this configuration because it represents the most common of all FAL variants and is historically "correct."

2. Camo the thing! This might be a good excuse to play with different finishes. Get Gun Kote in flat black (the 1600 stuff), olive drab, tan and brown. In theory, it works well on fiberglass and plastic so you can do the whole gun in the pattern of your choice.

For my build, I got one of the Rhodesian Imbel kits which are a standard Imbel with a lower marked ZAXXXXX and a grenade launching gas sight gas plug. Many of the Rhodesians were camoed by the troops. There was not a set camo style but many were a three tone with a baby puke green, baby shit yellow and a rust color.

I can't bring myself to desecrate one exactly like that so here is my scheme. I am giving mine a base coat of desert tan. I will then stripe it vertically with alternating olive and brown.

If you want to get together before hand to play with the Kote, let me know. I'm placing my order this week. I have a friend who I think can help with the blasting.
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 5:13:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2003 5:14:25 AM EDT by cliffy109]
Alright... so its late September or early October or we build it elsewhere. I understand Nick. I forgot about the family visiting.

For the rest of you, there are two kits being advertised now and both sound like good deals.

www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=83074

The second one he has listed will require a few parts but it isn't too bad. For the money he is asking, you couldn't loose. I have spares of the stuff this kit is missing and I'm sure we could make easy arrangements for them.
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 9:05:29 AM EDT
Are you planning this for Fredericksburg? Is it too late to participate? I live in South Stafford and have been considering a FAL build ever since I handled one at the gun shop in Manassas.
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 9:07:47 AM EDT
Certainly not too late. Especially since we are now looking at a probable October build date. Just let us know if you need help getting components together.
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 9:23:59 AM EDT
Great. I'm on it. I will certainly value some advice on getting parts together. The bigger problem will be justifying it with the wife. I'm thinking I'll tell her the FAL is needed to keep squirrels off the feeder.

I am going to do some research over the next day or so, basically going back and reading all the threads I've saved. Once I'm at least conversant with the choices, I'd like to get some advice.
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 1:07:55 PM EDT
Don't forget, October 11th, I'm getting hitched.

Hope it ends up some other weeked...

--LS
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 8:50:11 PM EDT
Don't forget, I still have my "2 for 1" kit deal going lol...email me for details!

I'll get rid of these things yet hehehe...or be forced to buy a damn receiver and build another one!
Link Posted: 8/6/2003 8:05:43 AM EDT
late oct. sounds even better to me. gives me more time to get money together, i think i sold my ar mags this morning, so im half way there, now i have to count the change jar and rob the wife's purse...

ill be at the party whether i half to skip school, call out of work, or what ever. sundays are best though. ive had this parts kit sitting under my bed for TOO LONG! my FSE H/T/S from moses should be in soon...$47 shipped in the marketplace at falfiles.com if anybody is interested.
Link Posted: 8/10/2003 9:42:51 AM EDT
This was not my week for trips. Had a less than crappy trip to Boston, then repeated the experience with the drive to DeGoff's on Saturday to pick up my receiver.

I-95 was horrible, more so than it's usual form. I probably averaged 45mph on the trip. Made the two-hour trip in about three hours. They must have been busy that day, as it was very hard to find a parking place. One final hitch was a trip back out to the car to comply with the "no loaded firearms" sign, as I didn't see exemption for CCW.

Was very surprised by the store, though, as the outside doesn't do it justice. This is the most well-stocked store that I have been in yet. I wouldn't expect such a store to be in the area, but I guess it is close to Richmond so it does have a large pop base to draw from. Service was great, and was in and out in about 30 minutes, though most of that was browsing the various display cases.

Long story summarized, got my Imbel receiver. DeGoff's gets an A for service and selection. I-95 get's an F for NoVA and out-of-town drivers. Just waiting for my parts kit to arrive and I'll be set!

Link Posted: 8/10/2003 9:51:06 AM EDT
I'm ordering a receiver this week. I've got my kit and I hope to order the camo finish sometime soon as well.

Oh and 300Whisper's kit arrived on Friday. He got the WDK kit from Gunthings.com. Its in great shape but probably needs refinishing. I haven't told him that yet but I'll handle it for him.
Link Posted: 8/10/2003 11:33:15 AM EDT
sounds like this is really coming together nicely. i sold my mags and and spare furniture kit i bought a while back so im getting real close to having enough dough. i was going to paint the spare furn.set khaki but i already have a satin grey set and an OD set (which is what im going with for now) so it definately wasnt necessary. im still waitng on my H/T/S set from moses and i just ordered a US gas piston from tapco to make up for the lack of coonan's.

CANT WAIT TO GET THIS THING TOGETHER!

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