Posted: 9/22/2011 6:46:03 AM EDT
|
Hope this ain't a dupe...Two more congressmen on board
Tim Schmitz (R), District 49 Jerry Costello II (D), District 116 |
, here's hoping for this to pass and save us several years and $$$.
|
As I understand it, the legislation can ONLY be brought up once more in the next year or so (otherwise the legislation has to be rewritten / go through the whole committee thing again).
No idea when it will come up in the legislature - though I'm going to be watching for it and will post any info I hear here. Illinois Carry.com is where I go to get updates on our fight for CCW... -Mike |
The only issue I have heard with that, is if they can force it through to give us the right, they will try to force it through to take it away at some point. 
And also, doesn't the 2nd Amendment in the Constitution already give us that right???? Oh wait, not anymore. 
|
|
Quoted:
The only issue I have heard with that, is if they can force it through to give us the right, they will try to force it through to take it away at some point.
And also, doesn't the 2nd Amendment in the Constitution already give us that right???? Oh wait, not anymore. Who is they, the legislature? I have to believe that once CCW passes, the likelihood of it being rescinded is relatively small. There is a lot of pressure now due to court cases like Shepard vs. Madigan. I think the legislature is more likely to pass HB0148 than deal with the possibility of Constitutional Carry that a court victory might entail. I think we are getting closer every day. |
|
That is true, I get what you are saying.
BUT... I thought we already had CCW? "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Silly me... I wonder the likelihood of them getting rid of the communist FOID card? 
|
|
Quoted:
That is true, I get what you are saying. BUT... I thought we already had CCW? "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Silly me... I wonder the likelihood of them getting rid of the communist FOID card? Theoretically, the 2nd does give us CCW, but I won't be the test case in this state. I can't afford the legal fees. I'm constantly amazed at the difference in attitude between different states. Why is the mentality in Indiana or Kentucky, for example, so different than Illinois? If enough people demanded that their representatives enacted concealed carry, we would have it here as well. I remember when the FOID came into existence in 1968. It was a desperate attempt by the state to control who had access to firearms. Those were the days of the assassinations of Bobby Kennedy and MLK Jr., the Chicago riots at the democratic convention and the Weathermen, SDS and Black Panthers were in full swing. The powers that be were scared shitless and the FOID was the result. Just like CCW, if there were enough vocal people in this state who wanted to get rid of it, it would be gone. |
|
Who knows if it has any real chance.
it was pretty solidly trounced when it came up last time. I say solidly because we would need 71+ votes and there is little sign that is likely. There is an interesting thing going on with one of the black legislators though. He actually held a town meeting about it. I don't know if that is a crack in the solid anti-LTC of the black legislative bloc or some kind of ploy. It is hard to tell what the motives of any politician is for anything. We got 65 legislators to vote yes and a couple more that reportedly voted yes and then changed their vote to no. According to the NRA lobbyist we had more than a majority last time around. A bare majority would have been 60. So we may have had almost as many votes last time around as this time. It is even possible we gained no votes at all, although without a record from last year, it is just what the people involved thought at the time. Then you have to get it past the senate where the other side has to only hold unto 20 votes to kill it. Then it has to get past the promised veto, which as a practical matter probably means if the governor were to veto it we would need a few extra votes because there will surely be at least 1 or 2 defectors in both houses. My guess is that if somehow we gain enough leverage to get a super majority in both houses, it is not likely to be vetoed anyway, or some kind of deal will be made in the back rooms that the gov can veto it for his supporters, but it will get overridden without much fanfare. I do not think that the current court cases are far enough along to give us enough extra leverage right now. But, that could change depending on what happens with the court cases. A good decision could provide the needed leverage. A not so good decision might not. A really good decision might eliminate the need for LTC entirely. What I see as most likely is no real decision at all. Some kind of holding pattern for a few years while it gets fought out in court. But, there is no way to know until we see what the judges say. To my way of thinking, if we have the leverage to pass a LTC bill, we would have the leverage to pass a much better one and would not need to accept some of the things in HB148. Get rid of the fingerprinting, keep the training. Make it shall issue to anyone that pays a $20 fee, produces a certificate of training, and already has a FOID card. Make it a sticker that gets put on your FOID card. Use the leverage to put through a state wide firearms preemption as part of the bill. OTOH, if we take of the worst of the problems, what will the NRA have to come back and fix later? Cynical I know, but a part of politics. We will need the NRA and other 2A defenders to stand on guard for a long time. It is tough to sustain that kind of vigilance without something to do. |
|
Quoted:
Make it shall issue to anyone that pays a $20 fee, produces a certificate of training, and already has a FOID card. Make it a sticker that gets put on your FOID card. That's what Judy Barr Topinka was saying to folks back when. I think it's a good idea. |
|
Quoted:
are we as close as we think? how many dems were allowed to vote yes ( ie Jehan I have a masters well not really Gordon) Hope I'm wrong but I see it being a long road still I heard talk that they may amend it this time to remove Chicago and Crook County from being included. This is the ONLY way I see it going through, though that's a crappy solution too. I don't think enough's changed since the spring when it came up before. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
are we as close as we think? how many dems were allowed to vote yes ( ie Jehan I have a masters well not really Gordon) Hope I'm wrong but I see it being a long road still I heard talk that they may amend it this time to remove Chicago and Crook County from being included. This is the ONLY way I see it going through, though that's a crappy solution too. I don't think enough's changed since the spring when it came up before. I hope the hell not! I live in suburban NW Cook County (just south of the county line with Lake County). Perhaps when I move next, I should move up a bit into Lake County! |
|
Quoted:
I heard talk that they may amend it this time to remove Chicago and Crook County from being included. This is the ONLY way I see it going through, though that's a crappy solution too. I don't think enough's changed since the spring when it came up before. There is a lot of talk out there. IMO, nothing is likely to happen of any significance on the legislative front until some of these court cases work their way through the system. The antis are in favor of no LTC, not may issue, not no Cook County issue. No issue is what they have and they are not going to give that up easily. Right now they have a solid bloc of votes to prevent any kind of LTC and until that changes, we are out of luck. I know it is hard to wait for 2 or 3 more years to see what happens, and unpopular to suggest that is what is likely to happen, but I fear that is where we are right now. I believe that the antis think they are going to lose and they are going to stall as best they can hoping something changes to improve their position. They really do not have much else given Ezell. But good lawyers can stall for a very long time. And with a complex and far reaching case like this, it should be fairly easy to stall. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
are we as close as we think? how many dems were allowed to vote yes ( ie Jehan I have a masters well not really Gordon) Hope I'm wrong but I see it being a long road still I heard talk that they may amend it this time to remove Chicago and Crook County from being included. This is the ONLY way I see it going through, though that's a crappy solution too. I don't think enough's changed since the spring when it came up before. I hope the hell not! I live in suburban NW Cook County (just south of the county line with Lake County). Perhaps when I move next, I should move up a bit into Lake County! Or maybe you should consider moving out of your communist state. While you guys were sweating what gun legislation your state will screw you with next, Florida just passed HB 145, a law that prohibits gun legislation lower than the state level, giving us even more gun freedom. Folks, I've said it before, and will say it again, let Obama and his supporters have Illinois, the South welcomes you and your guns with open arms. |
|
Quoted:
Or maybe you should consider moving out of your communist state. While you guys were sweating what gun legislation your state will screw you with next, Florida just passed HB 145, a law that prohibits gun legislation lower than the state level, giving us even more gun freedom. Folks, I've said it before, and will say it again, let Obama and his supporters have Illinois, the South welcomes you and your guns with open arms. I'm new at this. Just got my FOID this week. Lived here for 15 years (moved from suburban Detroit) before I even though about getting a gun. Frankly, the south and I wouldn't get along well. I can't take heat and humidity. If I was inclined to move, I'd be more likely to go somewhere colder. |
|
Quoted:
IL is screwed up and very anti-gun. HOWEVER, the lawsuits filed here in IL. (and in CA, MD, etc.) are going to expand firearms rights in every state of the union. Moving and abandoning the fight - especially at this time - is not the right thing to do... Part of the problem we have with the RTKBA is that in some respects we are our own worst enemy. Most of us are are quite happy to accept all kinds of limitations on liberty outside of the 2A. We have allowed government to get so huge that it is totally out of control. The sheer size of government at all levels has its own effect on what the extents of liberty can be. The more government, the less liberty. It is that simple. The court cases at issue will only define how much government is allowed to officially sanction us for expressing our rights. IMO, the rights start out being unlimited, and as government expands the extent of the right that can be expressed without official sanction is reduced. After all, no government can exist without the threat, and the ongoing application, of force against its own subjects. Some of that use of force is beneficial, such as when government puts away violent offenders. Much of it is aimed at cowing the population at large, and is pretty effective at doing so. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
are we as close as we think? how many dems were allowed to vote yes ( ie Jehan I have a masters well not really Gordon) Hope I'm wrong but I see it being a long road still I heard talk that they may amend it this time to remove Chicago and Crook County from being included. This is the ONLY way I see it going through, though that's a crappy solution too. I don't think enough's changed since the spring when it came up before. I hope the hell not! I live in suburban NW Cook County (just south of the county line with Lake County). Perhaps when I move next, I should move up a bit into Lake County! Or maybe you should consider moving out of your communist state. While you guys were sweating what gun legislation your state will screw you with next, Florida just passed HB 145, a law that prohibits gun legislation lower than the state level, giving us even more gun freedom. Folks, I've said it before, and will say it again, let Obama and his supporters have Illinois, the South welcomes you and your guns with open arms. My family settled this wonderful land over 130 years ago, I'll be damned before i give it up. I have a good life and plenty of reasons to stay. Thank you for the offer, but I'm not running.We will fight. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Make it shall issue to anyone that pays a $20 fee, produces a certificate of training, and already has a FOID card. Make it a sticker that gets put on your FOID card. That's what Judy Barr Topinka was saying to folks back when. I think it's a good idea. And ditch any fingerprinting. They trust us with a gun with just the FOID card, (which requires no fingerprinting), and yet they may want us to be fingerprinted to actually carry the same gun?
That's nonsense, and just a way to get your fingerprints on record, to be used against you, if neccessary, in the future. What's next, a dna sample? |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Or maybe you should consider moving out of your communist state. While you guys were sweating what gun legislation your state will screw you with next, Florida just passed HB 145, a law that prohibits gun legislation lower than the state level, giving us even more gun freedom. Folks, I've said it before, and will say it again, let Obama and his supporters have Illinois, the South welcomes you and your guns with open arms. My family settled this wonderful land over 130 years ago, I'll be damned before i give it up. I have a good life and plenty of reasons to stay. Thank you for the offer, but I'm not running.We will fight. +1 Really, other than the guns laws, Illinois is a great place to live in my opinion. I wouldn't move anywhere else in the world, Chicago is my home. Quoted:
And ditch any fingerprinting. They trust us with a gun with just the FOID card, (which requires no fingerprinting), and yet they may want us to be fingerprinted to actually carry the same gun?
That's nonsense, and just a way to get your fingerprints on record, to be used against you, if neccessary, in the future. What's next, a dna sample? Meh, I'm already on record 
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
are we as close as we think? how many dems were allowed to vote yes ( ie Jehan I have a masters well not really Gordon) Hope I'm wrong but I see it being a long road still I heard talk that they may amend it this time to remove Chicago and Crook County from being included. This is the ONLY way I see it going through, though that's a crappy solution too. I don't think enough's changed since the spring when it came up before. I hope the hell not! I live in suburban NW Cook County (just south of the county line with Lake County). Perhaps when I move next, I should move up a bit into Lake County! Or maybe you should consider moving out of your communist state. While you guys were sweating what gun legislation your state will screw you with next, Florida just passed HB 145, a law that prohibits gun legislation lower than the state level, giving us even more gun freedom. Folks, I've said it before, and will say it again, let Obama and his supporters have Illinois, the South welcomes you and your guns with open arms. Maybe you don't get it, but a lot of us, instead of running away, many of us have been working really hard to make this a *better* place to live. Is running way how you guys got CCW in Florida, or did someone (maybe other than you) have to work at it to get it passed? Right now your Florida CCW won't mean shit if you come visit Illinois. I know you will likely post "I would never visit Illinois" but maybe some of your other Floridian friends have family here, or have to come visit because of work. If we can get CCW here, it vastly increases the chances of a National CCW Reciprocity- All gun owners benefit if we fight the good fight here and win. |
|
Quoted:
Maybe you don't get it, but a lot of us, instead of running away, many of us have been working really hard to make this a *better* place to live. Is running way how you guys got CCW in Florida, or did someone (maybe other than you) have to work at it to get it passed? Right now your Florida CCW won't mean shit if you come visit Illinois. I know you will likely post "I would never visit Illinois" but maybe some of your other Floridian friends have family here, or have to come visit because of work. If we can get CCW here, it vastly increases the chances of a National CCW Reciprocity- All gun owners benefit if we fight the good fight here and win. +1 |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
are we as close as we think? how many dems were allowed to vote yes ( ie Jehan I have a masters well not really Gordon) Hope I'm wrong but I see it being a long road still I heard talk that they may amend it this time to remove Chicago and Crook County from being included. This is the ONLY way I see it going through, though that's a crappy solution too. I don't think enough's changed since the spring when it came up before. I hope the hell not! I live in suburban NW Cook County (just south of the county line with Lake County). Perhaps when I move next, I should move up a bit into Lake County! Or maybe you should consider moving out of your communist state. While you guys were sweating what gun legislation your state will screw you with next, Florida just passed HB 145, a law that prohibits gun legislation lower than the state level, giving us even more gun freedom. Folks, I've said it before, and will say it again, let Obama and his supporters have Illinois, the South welcomes you and your guns with open arms. You're absolutely correct. That's exactly what I did. I left Illinois and abandoned that almost hopeless fight. I wasn't going to stand around bickering, being a martyr for the corrupt, high tax, inherently anti-gun State of Illinois. I owe no allegiance to the Land of Lincoln. Life is too short for that self aggrandizing nonsense. So while self serving gun owning Illinoisians huddle about congratulating themselves on how tough they are and proclaiming cowards on those that leave Illinois for states that recognize gun owner's rights, ya'll still can't carry. And you won't until your betters decide to allow you the privilege. If one has to stay in Illinois one has no other option than to fight and wait it out. Congratulations! But theres no shame in being an Illinois expatriot. In fact, it takes a lot of guts to relocate, if but for no other reason than to be able to have the freedom to protect yourself or family on the street. I now enjoy my CCW. I carry my G26/19 or S&W 442 (no lock) almost anywhere I go. I am a better man for this. And life goes on..... |
|
I can understand both sides of the stay/leave argument. I plan to retire in the next couple years and will probably leave Illinois simply because f the cost of living. I can move elsewhere and have much more disposable income just based on property taxes alone. I'm also ready to get away from the traffic and the noise of the city and suburbs. I'm ready for some small town living.
However, as long as I am in this state, I will continue to push for gun rights. I write and call my reps frequently as welll as donate a few bucks to the various gun rights organizations. I'm a NRA certified firearms instructor and have worked with new shooters for years teaching firearms safety and basic proficiency. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
And ditch any fingerprinting. They trust us with a gun with just the FOID card, (which requires no fingerprinting), and yet they may want us to be fingerprinted to actually carry the same gun?
That's nonsense, and just a way to get your fingerprints on record, to be used against you, if neccessary, in the future. What's next, a dna sample? Meh, I'm already on record Yeah, I'm there with ya. At least mine (and hopefully yours) are all related to honest work. 
|
|
Quoted:
You're absolutely correct. That's exactly what I did. I left Illinois and abandoned that almost hopeless fight. I wasn't going to stand around bickering, being a martyr for the corrupt, high tax, inherently anti-gun State of Illinois. I owe no allegiance to the Land of Lincoln. Life is too short for that self aggrandizing nonsense. So while self serving gun owning Illinoisians huddle about congratulating themselves on how tough they are and proclaiming cowards on those that leave Illinois for states that recognize gun owner's rights, ya'll still can't carry. And you won't until your betters decide to allow you the privilege. If one has to stay in Illinois one has no other option than to fight and wait it out. Congratulations! But theres no shame in being an Illinois expatriot. In fact, it takes a lot of guts to relocate, if but for no other reason than to be able to have the freedom to protect yourself or family on the street. I now enjoy my CCW. I carry my G26/19 or S&W 442 (no lock) almost anywhere I go. I am a better man for this. And life goes on..... I don't blame anyone for leaving - it's great for those that are able to - but a lot of folks AREN'T able to and the 2nd Amendment fights in Illinois are ones worth having. The Illinois lawsuit victories have had and will continue to have national significance in expanding firearms rights across the country. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
And ditch any fingerprinting. They trust us with a gun with just the FOID card, (which requires no fingerprinting), and yet they may want us to be fingerprinted to actually carry the same gun?
That's nonsense, and just a way to get your fingerprints on record, to be used against you, if neccessary, in the future. What's next, a dna sample? Meh, I'm already on record Yeah, I'm there with ya. At least mine (and hopefully yours) are all related to honest work.
Uhhhh yeaaaahh..... 
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
And ditch any fingerprinting. They trust us with a gun with just the FOID card, (which requires no fingerprinting), and yet they may want us to be fingerprinted to actually carry the same gun?
That's nonsense, and just a way to get your fingerprints on record, to be used against you, if neccessary, in the future. What's next, a dna sample? Meh, I'm already on record Yeah, I'm there with ya. At least mine (and hopefully yours) are all related to honest work.
On record here too..... I don't blame those who leave this State. I often say to my wife that as soon as I can retire we are leaving. My family all moved out years ago, I'm just the last one to get my sense about me. |