Posted: 5/31/2011 10:30:20 AM EDT
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Hey guys, info on the June Practical Rifle event will be posted here.
Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your perspective) NickDrak and I won't be able to be at the event next month. likebuddah is going to take point on running this event. We're coming up with some stage designs and scenarios. One stage I came up with is essentially a huge 'Risk vs Reward" stage Each shooter gets a max of 15 rounds, and they have a limited amount of time to shoot. There will be 4 steel targets set up at 100 yards. Ranging from a full size IPSC target down to a small 6" steel round plate. Points will be given based on shot difficulty. I haven't figured out the exact details, but for the largest target, you could get 10 points for a hit for a standing offhand hit, 6 for kneeling and 3 for prone. The smallest 6" round target, points might be 45 points for standing, 30 for kneeling, 15 prone. Intermediate size targets would be scored accordingly. So, you'd have a set amount of time to get as many points as possible. A shooter can only hit the same target from the same shooting position a max of 3 times. So, if you're dialed in on a specific target, you'll have to move. Here's the tricky part though. Once you miss, and don't get a hit on steel, all your points are gone. Zero, zip, nadda! Shooter can run the risk vs reward as long as they like, and when they stop, they collect their points. But they lose all their points collected at the first miss. ––John |
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I have not been to one of these events before, but I would like to attend.
Would I be allowed to use a 91/30 mosin nagant, assuming I use soft point or non-steel core ammo? I understand I would be at a huge disadvantage, but I don't mind getting beat as long as I'm having fun. |
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I have not been to one of these events before, but I would like to attend. Would I be allowed to use a 91/30 mosin nagant, assuming I use soft point or non-steel core ammo? I understand I would be at a huge disadvantage, but I don't mind getting beat as long as I'm having fun. You might win simply by blowing the cardboards down on the short stages! 
I am not 100% positive, but I believe the one requirement is that it be a semiauto, and preferably larger than 22lr (22lr won't register on the timers very well), mainly because it really slows down running 30-40 guys through the course. But Pecker54 is the head of the committee so I'll let him speak for what is officially allowed... |
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You might win simply by blowing the cardboards down on the short stages!
I am not 100% positive, but I believe the one requirement is that it be a semiauto, and preferably larger than 22lr (22lr won't register on the timers very well), mainly because it really slows down running 30-40 guys through the course. But Pecker54 is the head of the committee so I'll let him speak for what is officially allowed... Thanks for your help! Depending on how close the targets are, not only could I blow them over, but I might be able to poke them with the bayonet, haha. I would just bring a semi auto, but I don't have one yet. I may purchase one soon to go hog hunting so that I don't get charged while I'm fumbling with a bolt/stripper clip, but I'm having the hardest time deciding between the AK47 and AR15. I know the drawbacks and merits of each, I just wish I could buy both instead 
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You might win simply by blowing the cardboards down on the short stages!
I am not 100% positive, but I believe the one requirement is that it be a semiauto, and preferably larger than 22lr (22lr won't register on the timers very well), mainly because it really slows down running 30-40 guys through the course. But Pecker54 is the head of the committee so I'll let him speak for what is officially allowed... Thanks for your help! Depending on how close the targets are, not only could I blow them over, but I might be able to poke them with the bayonet, haha. I would just bring a semi auto, but I don't have one yet. I may purchase one soon to go hog hunting so that I don't get charged while I'm fumbling with a bolt/stripper clip, but I'm having the hardest time deciding between the AK47 and AR15. I know the drawbacks and merits of each, I just wish I could buy both instead There will be plenty of AR's to look over at the practical match, and I'll throw my AR and AK in the trunk if you want to look them over. 
I usually shoot my MSAR/AUG so you can look it over too. 
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Arrange to borrow someone's weapon for the day. Just bring your own ammo, and maybe a case of beer for the nice guy lending you the weapon. I am sure plenty of the ASC or AR15 members would lend me a rifle for the day, but I prefer not to borrow if at all possible. I would not want to damage anyone's property or use it in a way that makes them feel uncomfortable. This is a good way of speeding up my decision process anyway. I'm probably going with the AK47 since I think the 7.62x39 will serve as a better hog hunting round at short distances. In the end, I will probably enjoy either rifle and will probably own both at some point. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Arrange to borrow someone's weapon for the day. Just bring your own ammo, and maybe a case of beer for the nice guy lending you the weapon. I am sure plenty of the ASC or AR15 members would lend me a rifle for the day, but I prefer not to borrow if at all possible. I would not want to damage anyone's property or use it in a way that makes them feel uncomfortable. This is a good way of speeding up my decision process anyway. I'm probably going with the AK47 since I think the 7.62x39 will serve as a better hog hunting round at short distances. In the end, I will probably enjoy either rifle and will probably own both at some point. You can shoot a 69gr Soft Point or 77gr SMK out of a AR15 that will take down a hog at <300Y easily. I believe the AR15 is more versatile, especially if you plan on attending longer range matches in the future where >400Y accuracy is required. A decent AK may deliver those results; a decent AR WILL deliver those results. |
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You can shoot a 69gr Soft Point or 77gr SMK out of a AR15 that will take down a hog at <300Y easily. I believe the AR15 is more versatile, especially if you plan on attending longer range matches in the future where >400Y accuracy is required. A decent AK may deliver those results; a decent AR WILL deliver those results. lol, don't make this harder than it already is. |
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Back to your original question- a Mosin Nagant will probably NOT be allowed a PRC. Reason being we shoot at steel targets sometimes, and some of them are not rated to handle a 7.62x54R round. [The MGM targets will, our others won't] Also, shooting a bolt action w/ questionable accuracy at targets that sometimes go out to 100Y will slow the pace down too much for everyone else. The final decision is up to Pecker or Nick (LikeBuddah this month), but I'd say no... |
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Back to your original question- a Mosin Nagant will probably NOT be allowed a PRC. Reason being we shoot at steel targets sometimes, and some of them are not rated to handle a 7.62x54R round. [The MGM targets will, our others won't] Also, shooting a bolt action w/ questionable accuracy at targets that sometimes go out to 100Y will slow the pace down too much for everyone else. The final decision is up to Pecker or Nick (LikeBuddah this month), but I'd say no... I can shoot it pretty accurately at 100y with iron sights but there is no doubt that this gun is very poorly suited to the task. I'll consider it a logical 'no' and just get another rifle. |
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Yeah, sorry, but a Mosin Nagant is not going to fly. The whole point of the event is for semi auto magazine fed rifles. Makes complete sense to me. Any bullet restrictions? If everything arrives on time I plan on using 7.62x39 FMJ. I have not shot steel plates before, so I was not sure if I would be required to use HP (hollow point) or SP (soft point). |
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Hollow points and soft points will both work. Just nothing with steel core (stuff that attracts magnets). FMJ/Ball/Frangibles also ok. Caliber restrictions will probably be played by ear; a 7.62x54R *might* (but probably will; it can rip through SAPI plates) not rip through an AR500 plate, but it will sure as hell knock the steel plate's support base over a few times- and then each time we'd have to stand it back up. The 7.62x39 will also knock down the plates more often than a 5.56NATO, but it's acceptable to use. Pecker might have some more airtight rules rather than guidelines... Quoted: Quoted: Yeah, sorry, but a Mosin Nagant is not going to fly. The whole point of the event is for semi auto magazine fed rifles. Makes complete sense to me. Any bullet restrictions? If everything arrives on time I plan on using 7.62x39 FMJ. I have not shot steel plates before, so I was not sure if I would be required to use HP (hollow point) or SP (soft point). |
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Yeah, sorry, but a Mosin Nagant is not going to fly. The whole point of the event is for semi auto magazine fed rifles. Makes complete sense to me. Any bullet restrictions? If everything arrives on time I plan on using 7.62x39 FMJ. I have not shot steel plates before, so I was not sure if I would be required to use HP (hollow point) or SP (soft point). Standard FMJ should be fine on the gongs. No steel core ammo as it messes up the steel. I actually ran into Pecker54 at ASC this afternoon while testing my 'new' Colt 1903 32 auto, the range was pretty sparse othewise. |
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Yeah, no steel core ammo. 7.62x39 is acceptable, but nothing that attracts a magnet.
I had some fun out at the club yesterday, Who needs full auto when you can get a surefire muzzle break and shoot like this. Aim Every Shot Video |
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Yeah, no steel core ammo. 7.62x39 is acceptable, but nothing that attracts a magnet. I had some fun out at the club yesterday, Who needs full auto when you can get a surefire muzzle break and shoot like this. Aim Every Shot Video Someone let me know if that video works....I changed permissions to "Everyone" can view it. |
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Yeah, sorry, but a Mosin Nagant is not going to fly. The whole point of the event is for semi auto magazine fed rifles. Makes complete sense to me. Any bullet restrictions? If everything arrives on time I plan on using 7.62x39 FMJ. I have not shot steel plates before, so I was not sure if I would be required to use HP (hollow point) or SP (soft point). Please don't take the following as a knock, we want as many folks to come to Practical Rifle as possible. However, in the past, we've had a few guys come out who it almost appeared just took their rifles out of the box. They didn't know where the safety was, never changed a magazine in a hurry, hadn't sighted in. Frankly, it can be very unsafe when the RO has to babysit and coach the shooter. So, while I'm totally happy for newer shooters to come out, they have to have a rifle that is sighted in, and they have to completely understand the operation of their rifle. This includes: Safety mechanism, magazine operation, how to hold bolt open, and having a good zero. If you don't know these simple things, you really have no business shooting like we do in Practical Rifle. It's amazing how easy it is to forget simple stuff when a buzzer goes off and you start shooting under even moderate stress or competition. I've got thousands of rounds through my ARs in Practical Rifle and just a couple of months ago I was yanking on the trigger like a noob wondering what the heck was going on while I had the safety on. You need these skills ingrained or at least confidently practiced before shooting on the move or doing something like a 9 hole drill where you're shooting at a weird angle with your head resting on the dirt. Now, while I probably just sounded like a prick, I don't mean to be that way. If you need some time getting used to your rifle. contact one of the ASC members here and I'm sure one of us would be willing to take you out to the club as our guest one day and get you squared away. ––John |
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Please don't take the following as a knock, we want as many folks to come to Practical Rifle as possible. However, in the past, we've had a few guys come out who it almost appeared just took their rifles out of the box. They didn't know where the safety was, never changed a magazine in a hurry, hadn't sighted in. Frankly, it can be very unsafe when the RO has to babysit and coach the shooter. So, while I'm totally happy for newer shooters to come out, they have to have a rifle that is sighted in, and they have to completely understand the operation of their rifle. This includes: Safety mechanism, magazine operation, how to hold bolt open, and having a good zero. If you don't know these simple things, you really have no business shooting like we do in Practical Rifle. It's amazing how easy it is to forget simple stuff when a buzzer goes off and you start shooting under even moderate stress or competition. I've got thousands of rounds through my ARs in Practical Rifle and just a couple of months ago I was yanking on the trigger like a noob wondering what the heck was going on while I had the safety on. You need these skills ingrained or at least confidently practiced before shooting on the move or doing something like a 9 hole drill where you're shooting at a weird angle with your head resting on the dirt. Now, while I probably just sounded like a prick, I don't mean to be that way. If you need some time getting used to your rifle. contact one of the ASC members here and I'm sure one of us would be willing to take you out to the club as our guest one day and get you squared away. ––John ^Word. Didn't sound like a prick at all. It absolutely needs to be said for the safety of all who attend the Practical Rifle shoots at the ASC. The video wont work for me, says I need to log in. And oh yeah, thanks for the invite prick!
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you not being a prick, safety is always the most important thing there.
i have shot countless rounds, but at these events i always seem to have problems getting my mag to seat right under stress. under a slow day no problems. practice, then come. get familiar with your rifle. what i like to do is at home with a unloaded rifle, practice changing a unloaded magazine in the rifle while moving, it helps. |
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you not being a prick, safety is always the most important thing there. i have shot countless rounds, but at these events i always seem to have problems getting my mag to seat right under stress. under a slow day no problems. practice, then come. get familiar with your rifle. what i like to do is at home with a unloaded rifle, practice changing a unloaded magazine in the rifle while moving, it helps. We see this A LOT every month at the practical rifle with multiple shooters. The most common cause is over-reliance on the "SLAP" technique when inserting a new magazine and "overloading" your 30rd magazines. Slapping the mag into the magwell does not actually "confirm" anything other than you just slapped the bottom of your magazine. The technique I use and teach is the "Push-Pull". "Push" the magazine into the magwell until you feel it positively "Click" into place, and then lightly "Pull" or tug on the magazine before releasing the bolt or pulling the trigger. The "Pull" is the only way to "Confirm" that the magazine is actually seated. Relying on the "Slap" is nothing more than wishful thinking. Additionally, slapping the magazine too hard upon insertion can cause a malfunction on an open bolt or "speed reload" as a magazine with even slightly worn out feed lips can/will erupt loose rounds into the chamber area if the bottom of the magazine is slapped too hard. If you load your "30 round" AR magazines with 30 rounds, very often when doing a speed reload you will end up with your mag dropping to the ground after you thought you properly seated the magazine. The solution in law enforcement and most branches of the military has been to download your 30rd magazines by at-least two rounds. The magazine spring needs a little bit of room to compress in-order to seat consistently into a magazine-well under stress & at speed. With 30 rounds stuffed into a 30rd magazine, there is no space left for the spring to compress. In LE we always suggest loading our "30 round" magazines to 28rds max. Some Military branches recommend 25rds max. In my experience 28rds max does the trick and I feel downloading to 25rds is overkill. |
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If you load your "30 round" AR magazines with 30 rounds, very often when doing a speed reload you will end up with your mag dropping to the ground after you thought you properly seated the magazine. The solution in law enforcement and most branches of the military has been to download your 30rd magazines by at-least two rounds. The magazine spring needs a little bit of room to compress in-order to seat consistently into a magazine-well under stress & at speed. With 30 rounds stuffed into a 30rd magazine, there is no space left for the spring to compress. In LE we always suggest loading our "30 round" magazines to 28rds max. Some Military branches recommend 25rds max. In my experience 28rds max does the trick and I feel downloading to 25rds is overkill. Word... John, the video worked for me... |
| My brother and I would love to attend a practical rifle shoot; but we are members of the embarrassing minions who own guns that rarely( handguns) or never(rifles) get shot. One of the problems is that there aren't many ranges in the area anymore. A good old friend of mine was a member of ASC but he relocated to Texas years ago. Is it possible to pay a range fee and shoot at the club? I'd love to sight in my AR and break in my FAL. |
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My brother and I would love to attend a practical rifle shoot; but we are members of the embarrassing minions who own guns that rarely( handguns) or never(rifles) get shot. One of the problems is that there aren't many ranges in the area anymore. A good old friend of mine was a member of ASC but he relocated to Texas years ago. Is it possible to pay a range fee and shoot at the club? I'd love to sight in my AR and break in my FAL. We do have open houses, or alternatively, get in touch with me here. Or one of the other ASC members. NickDrak, testedone, and others out there. While I can't speak for all the guys, we love bringing out new shooters. I'm sure we can figure out a good Saturday or Sunday that could work to do some open shooting as our guests. Probably would just need to help reimburse one of us for your daily guest wristband. ($10). ––John |
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My brother and I would love to attend a practical rifle shoot; but we are members of the embarrassing minions who own guns that rarely( handguns) or never(rifles) get shot. One of the problems is that there aren't many ranges in the area anymore. A good old friend of mine was a member of ASC but he relocated to Texas years ago. Is it possible to pay a range fee and shoot at the club? I'd love to sight in my AR and break in my FAL. We do have open houses, or alternatively, get in touch with me here. Or one of the other ASC members. NickDrak, testedone, and others out there. While I can't speak for all the guys, we love bringing out new shooters. I'm sure we can figure out a good Saturday or Sunday that could work to do some open shooting as our guests. Probably would just need to help reimburse one of us for your daily guest wristband. ($10). ––John John: Thank You. I will contact you. It might take a while though; my brother's garage was crushed by a tree in Pk. Ridge tonight; no way to tell if the cars are totaled, but we've got to fix that mess first. |
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Gentlemen,
I will be running the ASC Practical Shoot this Saturday 25JUN11. Anyone interested in helping setup, I would appreciate it: 0800 HRS at the 100 yrd range and teardown at the completion. A couple call outs for this month’s match: 1. One score sheet per shooter for the whole event. At morning registration, after a shooter signs-in (and pay), they will receive a score sheet. Shooters will maintain control of their score sheet for the entire match, giving it to scorekeeper at each stage. It will be turned into me at the completion of all three events. This should streamline scoring as we are short-staffed this month. 2.We have some new concepts this month for the match - based on attendee feedback. Please be flexible. For example, if the points on stage three are too skewed, we will adjust on the fly. And - Safety, Safety, Safety. We will have an RO / Scorekeeper meeting at 0900 HRS prior to the safety brief. This is to ensure continuity, any member interested in assisting would be of great help! We look forward to seeing everyone at 0930 HRS on 25JUN11 and thank you all in advance! Anthony Stage 1. “Wide Open” – 25 Yrd Bay Modified from COURSE DESIGNER: John Harrison TY-21456 from http://www.stageexchange.com/index2.htm START POSITION: Sitting on shooting bench, rifle unloaded and on table with muzzle pointed safely downrange. 2 magazines placed on table. Both magazines will be loaded with 8 rounds each. STAGE PROCEDURE: At beep, shooter loads rifle, engages T1 - T4 with 2 rounds each target, perform a mandatory reload and engage T5 - T8 with 2 rounds each. SCORING: 16 rounds, 80 points SCORED HITS: Only A,B,C hits count – 5 points per clean hit. START-STOP: Audible - Last shot PENALTIES: Procedural. -10 No-shoot hit. -10 Extra hit. -10 
Stage 2. “V-Tac 69” – 100 yrd range, share common firing line with Stage 3. START POSITION: Standing, rifle loaded (safety on), at low ready. #1 Magazine 4 rounds – in rifle #2 Magazine 14 rounds – carried on shooter. STAGE PROCEDURE: At beep, shooter engages full size IPSC steel target from 6 of the 9 holes on the VTAC barrier. Shooters choice. Shooter will make 3 hits on steel per position and reload as needed. Shooter will complete stage in 60 seconds. SCORING: 18 rounds, 90 points SCORED HITS: 5 points per clean hit. 2 point for every round left in the magazine after 50 second mark. START-STOP: Audible – (50 seconds) – Audible. PENALTIES: Procedural. -10 I lifted this picture of a VTAC off of google 
Stage 3. “Risk Vs Reward” – 100 yrd range, share common firing line with Stage 2. COURSE DESIGNER: Pecker54 from http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=23&t=453456 START POSITION: Standing, rifle loaded (safety on), at low ready. #1 Magazine 20 rounds – in rifle STAGE PROCEDURE: Stage #3 has four steel targets set up at 100 yards: (1) 1 full size B/C IPSC steel target, (1) half size IPSC steel target, (1) 10” steel plate, All steel will be painted white.
SCORING: As indicated on score sheet. SCORED HITS: 5 points per clean hit. START-STOP: Audible - (60 Seconds) -Audible PENALTIES: Procedural. – stage is terminated at point of infraction Miss – all points reset to zero 
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Just to clarify Anthony, the steel we have is Full size IPSC, BC-C Zone Target, 1/2 size IPSC, and a 10" round steel.
Oh, and there's also a 60 second time limit on that stage. So you have to get your hits in 60 seconds, and if you pile up a bunch of points at 45 seconds in and miss, you reset to zero, but can then make up a few points in the last 15 seconds. ––John |
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it was run very well, the ro's did a great job.
new idea for next match: a enclosed situation( aka porta john shoot). a area that you sit in with a swing out door. 4'-0" x 4'-0" person sits in area on a red stool/bench timer goes off, a person to the side opens the door all close range shooting. or just some variation of this would be cool. |
| Hey all, i just moved from NC and going to be staying in the west suburbs for the next several months. Looking for a place to shoot and was hoping I could join in on July's shoot if you guys were still having one and you didn't mind if another person made it out there? Been itching to shoot ever since I got back here..... |
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Hey all, i just moved from NC and going to be staying in the west suburbs for the next several months. Looking for a place to shoot and was hoping I could join in on July's shoot if you guys were still having one and you didn't mind if another person made it out there? Been itching to shoot ever since I got back here..... Of course, we're still putting together July's event, but it will be on July 23rd. Show up between 9-9:30. John |