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Posted: 3/27/2006 7:39:29 PM EDT
In another tread was discussing a young man who got busted with his AR shooting off tracers near a residental area. I always was under the belief tracers were illegal in IL. But I did some research on find law and an old copy of the criminal code I have and I couldnt find anythign on it. Any one have any idea were in the statutes it is? Or am I wrong? It woudn't be the frist time.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 8:57:14 PM EDT
I certainly hope not

WIZZO
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 8:59:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WIZZO_ARAKM14:
I certainly hope not

WIZZO



They ship them here!
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 9:17:44 PM EDT
I think they are mentioned w/dragon's breath and bolo rounds and fleschettes, etc.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:34:18 AM EDT
Let 20 rounds fly over the river New Years Eve Midnight. Looked really nice. Have to do it again July 4. By the way - I live in downtown Peru a couple blocks from the cop shop.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 3:14:55 AM EDT
might seem kind of strange, but whats your last name? I live a few blocks over on church street.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 5:05:39 AM EDT
Did he hit your dog and set him on fire?


JR
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 5:11:14 AM EDT
So it sounds as if everyone is just assuming that tracers are illegal.

I saw some for sale at a gun show I attended in Iowa, I wonder if there were any at the Princeton show this past weekend?
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 5:14:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2006 5:16:28 AM EDT by Slim30]
There was nothing in the books with drangons and bolo. Can we get one of or LEO freinds to weight in?
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 6:50:43 AM EDT
I am not a LEO, nor do I play one on TV. I did, however, stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

AFIK, tracers are legal in IL. I did a search of the entire IL code for "tracers" and had no hits.


ARTICLE 24. DEADLY WEAPONS

(720 ILCS 5/24‑1) (from Ch. 38, par. 24‑1)
(Text of Section from P.A. 94‑72)
Sec. 24‑1. Unlawful Use of Weapons.
(a) A person commits the offense of unlawful use of weapons when he knowingly:
* * * *
(7) Sells, manufactures, purchases, possesses or
carries:

(iii) any bomb, bomb‑shell, grenade, bottle or
other container containing an explosive substance of over one‑quarter ounce for like purposes, such as, but not limited to, black powder bombs and Molotov cocktails or artillery projectiles; or

* * *

(11) Sells, manufactures or purchases any explosive bullet. For purposes of this paragraph (a) "explosive bullet" means the projectile portion of an ammunition cartridge which contains or carries an explosive charge which will explode upon contact with the flesh of a human or an animal. "Cartridge" means a tubular metal case having a projectile affixed at the front thereof and a cap or primer at the rear end thereof, with the propellant contained in such tube between the projectile and the cap; or

* * *

(720 ILCS 5/24‑2.1) (from Ch. 38, par. 24‑2.1)
Sec. 24‑2.1. Unlawful use of firearm projectiles.
(a) A person commits the offense of unlawful use of firearm projectiles when he or she knowingly manufactures, sells, purchases, possesses, or carries any armor piercing bullet, dragon's breath shotgun shell, bolo shell, or flechette shell.

For the purposes of this Section:
"Armor piercing bullet" means any handgun bullet or handgun ammunition with projectiles or projectile cores constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper or depleted uranium, or fully jacketed bullets larger than 22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25% of the total weight of the projectile, and excluding those handgun projectiles whose cores are composed of soft materials such as lead or lead alloys, zinc or zinc alloys, frangible projectiles designed primarily for sporting purposes, and any other projectiles or projectile cores that the U. S. Secretary of the Treasury finds to be primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes or industrial purposes or that otherwise does not constitute "armor piercing ammunition" as that term is defined by federal law.

The definition contained herein shall not be construed to include shotgun shells.
"Dragon's breath shotgun shell" means any shotgun shell that contains exothermic pyrophoric mesh metal as the projectile and is designed for the purpose of throwing or spewing a flame or fireball to simulate a flame‑thrower.

"Bolo shell" means any shell that can be fired in a firearm and expels as projectiles 2 or more metal balls connected by solid metal wire.

"Flechette shell" means any shell that can be fired in a firearm and expels 2 or more pieces of fin‑stabilized solid metal wire or 2 or more solid dart‑type projectiles.
* * *
(d) Sentence. A person convicted of unlawful use of armor piercing bullets shall be guilty of a Class 3 felony.
(Source: P.A. 92‑423, eff. 1‑1‑02.)
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 7:39:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2006 7:39:46 AM EDT by WIZZO_ARAKM14]

Originally Posted By J2DOG:
So it sounds as if everyone is just assuming that tracers are illegal.

I saw some for sale at a gun show I attended in Iowa, I wonder if there were any at the Princeton show this past weekend?



Bunch of them. .30'06, .308, 5.56, 7.62x39, .45, 9mm, .38spl, and .44 Mag, IIRC.

WIZZO
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 8:43:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tizzo:
might seem kind of strange, but whats your last name? I live a few blocks over on church street.



I live on 2nd and Fulton. We'll have to get together sometime for a few BEERS.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 9:20:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Slim30:
There was nothing in the books with drangons and bolo. Can we get one of or LEO freinds to weight in?



I'm still looking but my first search came up with nothing. I may call an ASA and ask them.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:44:50 AM EDT
damn right, small world
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 1:40:51 PM EDT
I'm thinking where I saw was in blue tri-folded flier maybe got at FFL on counter that listed specific to IL..... It covered exceptions to unlawful use of weapon such as on personal property, business, etc. Don't have it real handy (I should)

but my take on what it said was tracers are legal other places, but IL had specific mention.... it was with AP (or what they considered AP) and remember it specificlly saying Dragons Breath, etc. (listed as examples of shotgun rounds not allowed in IL)

I'm not the type to just assume something's illegal at all.... but I'm real sure I read it 3-5 years ago on what seemed to be govt. pamphlet specific to IL gun grey-area questions.....

or else, I would have piles of that stuff along w/everything else...... I remember when every shotgun news had listing of that kind of specialty ammo.

did see recently on History channel (maybe another channel....) about a lot of misses due to aiming w/tracers at distance... said military round drop was different between tracer and non-tracer and quit linking w/tracers for that specific gun.... anybody know about that??? prob. not a big deal if not firing out of jet...
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 2:07:26 PM EDT
I may be wrong about the properties of tracers but, aren't they considered an Incindiary ? Perhaps this may be what they are talking about. I would think there would be a risk of fire when using tracers if this is the case. If so that kid is lucky he didn't get an arson charge too.

Just my 2 cents

Link Posted: 3/28/2006 2:45:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ciph:
I may be wrong about the properties of tracers but, aren't they considered an Incindiary ? Perhaps this may be what they are talking about. I would think there would be a risk of fire when using tracers if this is the case. If so that kid is lucky he didn't get an arson charge too.

Just my 2 cents




Incendiaries are different. They burst into white-hot sparks (I believe it's white phosphorus) when they hit something hard.

Tracers have a certain amount of material much like a match-head, IIRC, that ignites when the round is fired. It burns for a just couple seconds which is usually enough to trace out to 800yds or so (for 5.56). The thing is, if you're not shooting at 800yds+, they will hit the ground while the base material is still on fire. This is where regular tracers can start fires.....I found out the hard way a couple years ago when I started 2 different grass fires

WIZZO
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 4:00:01 PM EDT
so how does the law read on Incendiaries?-i was told at a gun show that anything other then brass and lead was illegal.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 4:17:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WIZZO_ARAKM14:

Originally Posted By Ciph:
I may be wrong about the properties of tracers but, aren't they considered an Incindiary ? Perhaps this may be what they are talking about. I would think there would be a risk of fire when using tracers if this is the case. If so that kid is lucky he didn't get an arson charge too.

Just my 2 cents




Incendiaries are different. They burst into white-hot sparks (I believe it's white phosphorus) when they hit something hard.

Tracers have a certain amount of material much like a match-head, IIRC, that ignites when the round is fired. It burns for a just couple seconds which is usually enough to trace out to 800yds or so (for 5.56). The thing is, if you're not shooting at 800yds+, they will hit the ground while the base material is still on fire. This is where regular tracers can start fires.....I found out the hard way a couple years ago when I started 2 different grass fires

WIZZO



The actual tracer is in the bottom of the bullet. Kinda acts like a commet tail when the round is fired. Tracers are legal in Illinois. I will rip a mag of them into the pit next blastfest.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 4:21:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By patriot73:

The actual tracer is in the bottom of the bullet. Kinda acts like a commet tail when the round is fired. Tracers are legal in Illinois. I will rip a mag of them into the pit next blastfest.



Too bad they're not allowed at the pit

WIZZO
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 4:56:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WIZZO_ARAKM14:

Originally Posted By patriot73:

The actual tracer is in the bottom of the bullet. Kinda acts like a commet tail when the round is fired. Tracers are legal in Illinois. I will rip a mag of them into the pit next blastfest.



Too bad they're not allowed at the pit

WIZZO



Thank you Wizzo. Tracers are not allowed in the pit for the simply reason of a possible fire. We have signs posted at the range also stating that you cannot shoot tracers there.

Your neighborhood Range Officer
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 4:57:09 PM EDT
You Peru guys know Pat the Roto Rooter man?
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 6:10:55 PM EDT
if he drives a roto router van, then yes I see him around sometimes.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 7:14:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2006 7:18:37 PM EDT by Kalahnikid]

Originally Posted By Sig223:

Originally Posted By WIZZO_ARAKM14:

Originally Posted By patriot73:

The actual tracer is in the bottom of the bullet. Kinda acts like a commet tail when the round is fired. Tracers are legal in Illinois. I will rip a mag of them into the pit next blastfest.



Too bad they're not allowed at the pit

WIZZO



Thank you Wizzo. Tracers are not allowed in the pit for the simply reason of a possible fire. We have signs posted at the range also stating that you cannot shoot tracers there.

Your neighborhood Range Officer



M856 takes 100yds to ignite, therefore tracers would be worthless at the pit anyways

edit for clairification...they would be igniting in the ground, but would not be visible.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 10:57:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Not_so_Clever:
You Peru guys know Pat the Roto Rooter man?



He lives a half block away from me. Been friends for a long time.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 2:26:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Sig223:

Originally Posted By WIZZO_ARAKM14:

Originally Posted By patriot73:

The actual tracer is in the bottom of the bullet. Kinda acts like a commet tail when the round is fired. Tracers are legal in Illinois. I will rip a mag of them into the pit next blastfest.



Too bad they're not allowed at the pit

WIZZO



Thank you Wizzo. Tracers are not allowed in the pit for the simply reason of a possible fire. We have signs posted at the range also stating that you cannot shoot tracers there.

Your neighborhood Range Officer




Oops. I stand corrected. I WILL NOT be ripping a mag of tracers into the pit. Sorry for the ignorance on my part.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 2:27:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Kalahnikid:

Originally Posted By Sig223:

Originally Posted By WIZZO_ARAKM14:

Originally Posted By patriot73:

The actual tracer is in the bottom of the bullet. Kinda acts like a commet tail when the round is fired. Tracers are legal in Illinois. I will rip a mag of them into the pit next blastfest.



Too bad they're not allowed at the pit

WIZZO



Thank you Wizzo. Tracers are not allowed in the pit for the simply reason of a possible fire. We have signs posted at the range also stating that you cannot shoot tracers there.

Your neighborhood Range Officer



M856 takes 100yds to ignite, therefore tracers would be worthless at the pit anyways

edit for clairification...they would be igniting in the ground, but would not be visible.



Where did you get this info?
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 10:15:15 AM EDT
I know from personal experience that the .30-06 military tracers (M25 Tracer) don't ignite before 75 yards either. IIRC, it is designed that way so as to not give away the exact source of fire to the enemy.

www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/rifle/30_ammo.html
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 6:43:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mikey250r:

Originally Posted By Not_so_Clever:
You Peru guys know Pat the Roto Rooter man?



He lives a half block away from me. Been friends for a long time.



We may know each other. Pat's dad, Paul, my Grandfather, passed away Tuesday.

Pat's my uncle. I'll be down there Thursday.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 3:06:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By silascobb:
I know from personal experience that the .30-06 military tracers (M25 Tracer) don't ignite before 75 yards either. IIRC, it is designed that way so as to not give away the exact source of fire to the enemy.

www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/rifle/30_ammo.html



You learn something everyday!! Thanks Silas.
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