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Posted: 12/10/2005 7:08:17 PM EDT
Alright, I'm looking for a new deer hunting gun for next year. Even though I got two this year with a smoothbore shotgun, I felt really restricted by the potential of it to hit at anything over 50 yds. I had to pass on on a nice 6 pointer, just couldn't risk the distance.

I would really like somthing with true 150 yd range. Alot of pastures where I hunt.

So, with that in mind, I was wondering if you guys would be willing to argue for a better setup for next year.
Shotgun, handgun, or muzzleloader?
Best brand?
Best caliber?
Scope, what kind for your choice?
Price is important.

This forum has been slow lately, maybe we can get some good discussion going.
Link Posted: 12/10/2005 8:59:04 PM EDT
How about just a slug barrel for your shotgun and a $50 scope and some sabot slugs? 150 yards is nothing.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 1:11:07 PM EDT
I sure can't see why you have handgun as an option if your looking for something better out to 150 yards? Other than that I don't want to argue what is best. Too many variables. Most modern Muzzleloaders are very deadly out to 150 yards but a good one can be rather expensive. What kind of shotgun are you using now, and what is max. length shell will it take?
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 7:23:01 PM EDT
I use a Remington 1100 Special purpose with the cantalever base. It is full rifledand will hold 4" at 100 yards. The only downside to fully rifled guns is that the price of slugs triples! Really the only brands I would buy are Remmington or maybe Winchester. I had a pump before, but really like the fast follow up capability of a semi auto. By the way the only reason I did not buy the 1187 was that I did not feel that a 3" mag was necessary to kill a deer. Beside I saved about $150 between the two.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 7:39:55 PM EDT
There are 1100s that can shoot 3" anyway. They're just one or the other, where the 11-87 is both.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 7:56:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tim84K10:
How about just a slug barrel for your shotgun and a $50 scope and some sabot slugs? 150 yards is nothing.



This is the most rediculous thing I have read on this board yet. Anybody that thinks 150 yds. with a shotgun is "nothing" or a safe shoot is wrong. You have no business as a sportsman taking a shot like that. Sorry Tim but you have got to be kidding me!!
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 8:57:23 PM EDT
150 yards with a fully rifled barrel and a scope is wrong?

If so, I think all options are out. I wouldn't shoot a muzzleloader at that distance and a pistol/revolver at that distance is a joke.

I'd prefer to just say, "Use a centerfire rifle" but you know that doesn't work in IL.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 4:13:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2005 4:14:48 AM EDT by npd233]

Originally Posted By Tim84K10:
150 yards with a fully rifled barrel and a scope is wrong?

If so, I think all options are out. I wouldn't shoot a muzzleloader at that distance and a pistol/revolver at that distance is a joke.

I'd prefer to just say, "Use a centerfire rifle" but you know that doesn't work in IL.



150 yds. is about the absolute MAXIMUM range for a fully rifled, scoped shotgun with a properly selected barrel and slug load. As for maintaining any semblance of accuracy, it would be safe to assume that 125 yds. would be that limit.

Browning offers a 12-gauge rifled bolt-action shotgun complete with synthetic stock and optics, and which is already sighted in for one-inch groups at 100 yards. For about $650, you can head to the woods better equipped than most rifle hunters.

When using slug rounds, it is important to familiarize yourself with the ballistic characteristics of the specific load you choose. For example, according to Federal's data, the F127 RS round drops about 4" at 100 yds, assuming a 50-yard zero. Just like taking a long-range rifle shot, using slugs at or near their effective maximum range requires the shooter to "hold over" the target to compensate for projectile drop.

A 4" drop 50 yards beyond the zero point is a HUGE amount. The ballistic path of a shotgun slug fired from a gun zero'd at 50 yds. takes a huge nosedive past 100 yards. You're shooting a ONE OUNCE hunk of lead... no pun intended, but that thing will drop like a ONE OUNCE hunk of LEAD!

Anyway you look at it, you're at the extreme end of the accuracy window at 150 yds., and then only if you are using an absolutely perfect slug/barrel/rifle/scope combo, with which you have much practice. However 150 yds. is a range at which you can take the same shot with a rifle or rifle-caliber handgun such as a Thompson Contender with little to no effort at all. It's a matter of picking the right tool for the job.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 9:46:44 AM EDT
There is a new handgun cartridge being made by CNC cartridge, its called the 30 bellum. It was designed to pass the Illinois deer hunting handgun laws for cartridge lengths. Its a .444 marlin case, shortened and necked down to a .308 bullet. Its shot out of a T/C handgun. With a long eye relief handgun scope it can hit a paper plate at 250 yards every time, and its LEGAL !!!!
CNC Cartridge out of Macedonia, IL.

A fully rifled cantalever slugbarrel and scope combo with Hornady SST slug is a 150-200 yard shotgun in the right hands.
MV- 2000 fps
trajectory
muzzle 50 yrds 100yrds 150yrds 200yrds
-0.9 +2.4 +2.7 0 -6.7
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 3:06:51 PM EDT
I've been shooting an Ithaca Deerslayer II for the past 14 years an love it. I shoot Federal Premium sabots and have taken deer out to 150 yards. It is scoped with a Leupold variable 1.5-5x. The downside of this rig is that it is expensive. Expect to pay $450+ for the shotgun and then add the cost of the scope.

I also shoot a CVA in-line muzzloader. It is scoped as well and I would consider any deer within 150 yards to be in serious trouble.

As someone has already stated, practice and confidence in your ablility and equipment is key to effectively taking deer in the 150 yard range. If you possess that, a one shot kill at 150 yards is no problem.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 5:18:55 PM EDT
150 yards isn't a problem with a rifled barrel and modern slugs.

I like Winchester Partition Gold, which is solid copper, 385 grains, 1900 fps muzzle velocity in the 2 3/4 inch. See here for ballistic info. Sighted in at 150 yds, you're withing +- 3 inches out to 175 yards.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 5:35:09 PM EDT
Go with a modern muzzle loader w/ a scope and you will get even better balistics than a shotgun.

RemMan
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 4:30:20 PM EDT
Could someone say why using a rifle for deer is not allowed (in IL), while using a shotgun is allowed. Is it a safety issue? If so, are there any statistics that it is actually safer.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:04:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bulldogkcsd:
There is a new handgun cartridge being made by CNC cartridge, its called the 30 bellum. It was designed to pass the Illinois deer hunting handgun laws for cartridge lengths. Its a .444 marlin case, shortened and necked down to a .308 bullet. Its shot out of a T/C handgun. With a long eye relief handgun scope it can hit a paper plate at 250 yards every time, and its LEGAL !!!!
CNC Cartridge out of Macedonia, IL.

A fully rifled cantalever slugbarrel and scope combo with Hornady SST slug is a 150-200 yard shotgun in the right hands.
MV- 2000 fps
trajectory
muzzle 50 yrds 100yrds 150yrds 200yrds
-0.9 +2.4 +2.7 0 -6.7



I thought only straight walled cartriges were allowed. Did I miss something?
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:13:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cradddock:
I sure can't see why you have handgun as an option if your looking for something better out to 150 yards? Other than that I don't want to argue what is best. Too many variables. Most modern Muzzleloaders are very deadly out to 150 yards but a good one can be rather expensive. What kind of shotgun are you using now, and what is max. length shell will it take?



I'm using a Winchester mod. 140 ranger. 12 ga. 2 3/4'' only. I did purcase a 870 express recently, but I don't have a slug barrel for it. This is the problem for me.
Should I invest in a Hastings or Remington slug barrel, or something else.

A good slug barrel can get pretty steep, and I don't know if it worth the money for the ballistics.
If there is a better option (i.e. better range, balistics, etc.) I think I would like to go that way.
I guess I'm not real impressed with slug balistics, but I don't know if any of my options are really any better.

You asked about handguns, I guess I'm thinking in the T/C Contender type, not revolver type.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 11:33:41 AM EDT
I really like my Hastings barrel, but my dealer set me up with it, so I only about $230 for a cantilever mount barrel.

The downside is, it just doesn't mount like a good rifle. I have to hold my head higher than I'm used to so I can see through the scope.

I've thought about a muzzleloader, but I'm not fond of the 1 shot idea. Mind you, I don't believe that you're going to get a deer with 3 shots that you couldn't get with one, but a few of the guys I go with have been in situations where a loaded gun with a few shots was a good thing.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 7:40:12 PM EDT
Would a rifle be legal if it was fired from Wisconsin INTO Illinois?

Sorry I'm up too late.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 8:13:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jpusk:
Would a rifle be legal if it was fired from Wisconsin INTO Illinois?

Sorry I'm up too late.



Leave the rifle in Wisconsin when you drag the deer back over the border

WIZZO
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 8:22:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jpusk:
Would a rifle be legal if it was fired from Wisconsin INTO Illinois?

Sorry I'm up too late.



Wouldn't that be kidnapping and transporting an unsuspecting bullet across state lines?

There's gotta be a federal crime here somewhere! There always is!
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 10:53:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By WIZZO_ARAKM14:

Originally Posted By jpusk:
Would a rifle be legal if it was fired from Wisconsin INTO Illinois?

Sorry I'm up too late.



Leave the rifle in Wisconsin when you drag the deer back over the border

WIZZO



Would you still need a WI hunting license if you took an Illinois deer? Or would you need both?
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 1:47:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By npd233:

Originally Posted By WIZZO_ARAKM14:

Originally Posted By jpusk:
Would a rifle be legal if it was fired from Wisconsin INTO Illinois?

Sorry I'm up too late.



Leave the rifle in Wisconsin when you drag the deer back over the border

WIZZO



Would you still need a WI hunting license if you took an Illinois deer? Or would you need both?



Maybe just a Wisconsin license as you are physically hunting in Wisconsin.

If you would need an IL license, I bet it wouldn't be legal to shoot it since we don't have a rifle season.

I don't really know, but it's fun to think about

WIZZO
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 5:02:06 PM EDT
Wow, did this go off topic.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 12:06:09 PM EDT
Legal Ammunition
• For shotguns and muzzleloading firearms,
the minimum size of the projectile shall be
.44 caliber. A wad or sleeve is not considered
a projectile or a part of the projectile.
• For handguns, a bottleneck centerfire cartridge
of .30 caliber or larger with a case
length not exceeding 1.4 inches, or a
straight-walled centerfire cartridge of .30
caliber or larger, both of which must be
available as a factory load with the published
ballistic tables of the manufacturer
showing a capability of at least 500 foot
pounds of energy at the muzzle.
• Non-expanding, military-style full metal
jacket bullets cannot be used to harvest
white-tailed deer; only soft point or expanding
bullets (including copper/copper-alloy
rounds designed for hunting) are legal
ammunition

From the 2005-2006 Illinois digest of hunting and trapping regulations


Get yourself a .30 bellum!!!
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 5:11:47 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 9:47:31 PM EDT
I do not own a rifled barrel for any of my shotguns. Further, with the firearms I own, I would not attempt to shoot a deer at 150 yards at all. Lastly, I have never been deer hunting.

My 03A3 could do it, as probably could my M1A, but I'm not that good with irons and neither have scopes. 100 yards, sure. Beyond that, let it go, there are more.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 9:56:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:

Originally Posted By Tim84K10:
How about just a slug barrel for your shotgun and a $50 scope and some sabot slugs? 150 yards is nothing.



I'm curious what kind of groups you're getting at 150 yards--and what is your mid-range trajectory? How many deer have you killed at that distance with slugs?




Originally Posted By Tim84K10:
I do not own a rifled barrel for any of my shotguns. Further, with the firearms I own, I would not attempt to shoot a deer at 150 yards at all. Lastly, I have never been deer hunting.

My 03A3 could do it, as probably could my M1A, but I'm not that good with irons and neither have scopes. 100 yards, sure. Beyond that, let it go, there are more.




Owned by TBK1!

I originally thought you made that suggestion based on experience, Tim.

Link Posted: 12/24/2005 12:05:35 PM EDT
Knight rifle .50 cal.
Took a ten pointer in the spoon river valley
was taking a coffe break with 2 fellow pipefitters when buck came out of woods
friends diidn't realize I picked up rifle till I shot
deer went about 40 yards
double lung part of heart bullit exited
rifle sighted in 3" high at 100 yards
245 grain jhp in sabot 100 grain 2x bp
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 2:05:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/24/2005 2:09:44 PM EDT by Tim84K10]

Originally Posted By npd233:

I originally thought you made that suggestion based on experience, Tim.




Nope. I have no interest in deer hunting in Illinois. If I can't use a rifle, forget it.

I do suspect that some of you are incorrect though. 150 yards, while reaching, should be possible with sabot slugs and the proper rifled barrel. As to whether it's ethical to shoot at that kind of distance, that's for you to decide...I wouldn't try to take an animal at that distance with a shotgun.

www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/shotshell_slug_loads.asp

Doesn't appear that 150 yards it out of line with the correct sabot slugs on there either.

I'd say it's not out of the question at all...
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 1:09:21 PM EDT
12 Ga sabot slugs are expensive. Just think of the cost to sight in.

This year I went with a Traditions Pursuit LT muzzleloader. Break open barrel with 209 primer. VERY easy to clean. The Triple 7 pellets are soap and water clean up. The Hornady 240 gr XTP .50 cal sabots with 100 gr of Triple 7 group very nice at 100yds. When I get some range time, I'll try 100 gr loads out to 150 yds, then 150 gr loads @ 150 yds and compare. Ive mounted a 3X9 scope and so far extremely pleased with the results.

Searching the net you can find these rifles for under $200 or go to your local WalMart.. Just relaying my opinion...have fun and good luck..

PS, VERY effective knock down power on deer. Three of us all used muzzel loaders during the firearm season this year with similar results on knock down and clean effective kills. May never go back to a shotgun again.....
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 6:26:21 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 3:23:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:

Originally Posted By Tim84K10:

Originally Posted By npd233:

I originally thought you made that suggestion based on experience, Tim.




Nope. I have no interest in deer hunting in Illinois. If I can't use a rifle, forget it.

I do suspect that some of you are incorrect though. 150 yards, while reaching, should be possible with sabot slugs and the proper rifled barrel. As to whether it's ethical to shoot at that kind of distance, that's for you to decide...I wouldn't try to take an animal at that distance with a shotgun.

www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/shotshell_slug_loads.asp

Doesn't appear that 150 yards it out of line with the correct sabot slugs on there either.

I'd say it's not out of the question at all...



Not to beat up on you but if you've never been deer hunting you might want to learn from a thread like this rather than offering advice. Just a thought.



I have been shooting at much smaller targets than a large animal at twice that distance. If the equipment is capable of it, there is no reason that my advice should not hold true.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 4:48:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tim84K10:

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:

Originally Posted By Tim84K10:

Originally Posted By npd233:

I originally thought you made that suggestion based on experience, Tim.




Nope. I have no interest in deer hunting in Illinois. If I can't use a rifle, forget it.

I do suspect that some of you are incorrect though. 150 yards, while reaching, should be possible with sabot slugs and the proper rifled barrel. As to whether it's ethical to shoot at that kind of distance, that's for you to decide...I wouldn't try to take an animal at that distance with a shotgun.

www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/shotshell_slug_loads.asp

Doesn't appear that 150 yards it out of line with the correct sabot slugs on there either.

I'd say it's not out of the question at all...



Not to beat up on you but if you've never been deer hunting you might want to learn from a thread like this rather than offering advice. Just a thought.



I have been shooting at much smaller targets than a large animal at twice that distance. If the equipment is capable of it, there is no reason that my advice should not hold true.



Does that mean that you're getting good groups with slugs at 300 yds.? That I'd have to see to believe.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 1:13:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2005 1:14:27 PM EDT by npd233]

Originally Posted By Tim84K10:

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:

Originally Posted By Tim84K10:

Originally Posted By npd233:

I originally thought you made that suggestion based on experience, Tim.




Nope. I have no interest in deer hunting in Illinois. If I can't use a rifle, forget it.

I do suspect that some of you are incorrect though. 150 yards, while reaching, should be possible with sabot slugs and the proper rifled barrel. As to whether it's ethical to shoot at that kind of distance, that's for you to decide...I wouldn't try to take an animal at that distance with a shotgun.

www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/shotshell_slug_loads.asp

Doesn't appear that 150 yards it out of line with the correct sabot slugs on there either.

I'd say it's not out of the question at all...



Not to beat up on you but if you've never been deer hunting you might want to learn from a thread like this rather than offering advice. Just a thought.



I have been shooting at much smaller targets than a large animal at twice that distance. If the equipment is capable of it, there is no reason that my advice should not hold true.




With a shotgun? Excuse me for a moment. I have to do something:

<­IMG SRC=/images/smilies/anim_rofl2.gif border=0 align=middle>


Ok. All done. Now as you were saying...
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 3:49:34 PM EDT
You guys have failed to see the point. If the equipment is capable of it, and you do your job, it is not out of the question to think that you can make shots at that distance.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 4:07:20 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 4:07:25 PM EDT
OK, Tim, whatever. I guess next thing is prairie dogs at 500 yds are within the capability of 12 ga. slugs.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 4:39:39 PM EDT
is it possible to shoot and kill a deer at 150 yards? sure. 200 yards? i've heard of crazier shit happening before. but if you're that fucking desperate to shoot at a deer that far with a shotgun then hang up your fucking gear, go to the grocery store and buy beef. the first thing i'd think of if someone showed me a video of shooting a deer at that range with a shotgun is "what a pathetic fucking hunter." i sure wouldn't go to the woods with him though....


jake
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 5:40:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By codycoyote:

Originally Posted By Tim84K10:
You guys have failed to see the point. If the equipment is capable of it, and you do your job, it is not out of the question to think that you can make shots at that distance.



A .223 remington cartridge is capable of hitting a target at 1000 yrds. Does that mean that I can hunt out to 1000 yrds with it? The question isn't so much as will the slug make it out to 150yrds, but will it effectively bring down a Whitetail at 150yrds. The educated, experienced opinion is NO. Hell, I've seen guys shot 200yrds+ with a 22LR, doesn't mean I would hunt anything with it at that range.



Did you read the ballistic information on teh sabot slug that I posted for you? The numbers are posted with a 150 yard zero and if you ask me, are damn impressive.

I wouldn't bother taking a shot at 150 yards with a shotgun either, but not because the equipment is not capable of it. I just don't feel that I'm good enough with anything except a rifle to take a deer at that distance. I would want to make a humane/clean kill and with the equipment I own, that wouldn't be possible.

With the right shotgun, practice, and confidence, I'd try it, though. Those ballistic numbers are pretty respectable for a shotgun slug.

In 1902 if you told someone that you were going to fly a heavier than air craft they'd tell you that you were completely out of your mind. The same holds true to this. Technology has done some amazing things--and at least on paper anyway, 150 yard kill isn't out of the question.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 8:48:16 PM EDT
you're saying it could happen. when hunting though, you want to know it WILL happen.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 9:07:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By npd233:
you're saying it could happen. when hunting though, you want to know it WILL happen.



agreed. I'm not skilled enough to make such a shot. The equipment is, however.
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