Posted: 7/13/2005 8:01:37 PM EDT
| It seems that when someone on this board talks about getting together and having a weekend of shooting everyone is all for it. But when we are called to go to the Capitol and stand in front of our elected officials and tell them to uphold the constitution, there is little support. I am not knocking shooting or fellowship among shooters, I support them both. It just seems that if all of us on this board convinced just 5 of our friends to join us in Springfield, the elected officials would have to listen to us. I wish there was as much enthusiasim for having a boring ass day in Springfield saving your rights, as there was in a fun day at the range. If you haven't ever been to the Capitol in protest of gun laws, then you are a cultural coward. |
If I was downstate I probably would. Maybe I could hitch a ride on blago's plane next time he goes south for the day. Otherwise it's a 6 hour round trip plus the time I spend there. Some of us have jobs during the week so we keep in touch with our legislators by phone, email or fax. 
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You move Springfield up north so it's as close as the range, and get me out of work, or have them meet on the weekend, then I'll be there. Until all that happens phone calls will have to do. It's not a lack of desire around here, I think lots of people would be willing if cicumstances were different. The problem is geography. |
| I understand the work thing, it is a pain. But we are so lucky to live in this country and have these freedoms that our ancestors fought and died for I hate to see the rampant citizen apathy. I wish just once we could have a real rally at the capitol and bring everyone from around the state and give them an idea of how many of us there really are. Can you imagine if 10,000 people showed up at the capitol for a gun bill debate? |
I have to agree with the above two posts. We shoot on weekends when everyone is free. If the Politicians would be willing to meet with all of us on a weekend when we are free, then I'm more than willing. Until then I will continue to call, write, and E-mail them. Also if you get the chance you can corner some of them during parades(tis the season), or at fundraisers during election time(just don't pay to be there )I Enjoy my rights, and try to defend them all I can. But food on the table and a roof over my head will always come first, so that means work has to come first. ETA: As to having 10,000 gun rights supports showing up in springfield. The only time you will get that many people in springfield for anything is when you are cutting the social services programs, because those people have no jobs, and they are bussed down by lobbiest's. Don't mean to sound snide, but just because you can't get people in springfield doesn't mean that people are apathetic. You don't know when I write or e-mail or call and congressman, or senator. I agree some people do nothing, but not everyone. Then there is the fact that if we do get 10,000 people in springfield for gun rights, nothing is going to make the politicians vote for it. They are going to do what they want either way, sad as it is. |
Sadly, you are absolutley right.  Gays, blacks, womens rights groups, animal rights groups, environmentalists, motorcyclists (helmut laws), etc. will show up in droves to protest or show support for their cause but most gunowners are just not that motivated. Sure some will send email & even fewer will make phone calls but showing up in force is what really makes an impact. You'll here plenty of ____________________________________ The only hope you have is to accept the fact that you are already dead. And the sooner you accept that, the sooner you will be able to function as a soldier is supposed to function, without mercy, without compassion, without remorse. |
Yeah, maybe you are right. I should quit my job and lose my apartment, so I can go be homeless in Springfield and let my opinions be known. Unfortunately, it won't matter to me by then because there will be no way for me to pay for all of the guns I'm defending my right to own. Get a clue. People in the military going overseas isn't really a good comparison anyway, you need to remember that that is their JOB. Even the reservists signed a contract and are being payed, because the USG is their EMPLOYER. If someone would hire me to go to Springfield and lobby, I'd be down there every day. Too bad this is the real world. |
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Yeah, I get 10 a year, you loan me a few more, and I'll be more than happy to join you in Springfield. I write, I've faxed letters, and made phone calls, but spending time with my family and my life in general is probably going to get in the way of me wasting any of those ten days to go to a committee meeting that is usually postponed anyway. If my priorities are different than everyone elses, so be it. |
Vacation days, sick days, I've used both. I guess those who live in the real world save those so they don't become homeless.  ____________________________________ The only hope you have is to accept the fact that you are already dead. And the sooner you accept that, the sooner you will be able to function as a soldier is supposed to function, without mercy, without compassion, without remorse. |
You're just full of good ideas. You bring up a very good point, I figure I could support myself for a few months with no job. I'll quit, and then just find a new one after lobbying in Springfield a few months. If you're saying that you would give up your vacation days to go down there, more power to you. Good luck, I hope you make a difference. Unfortunately, I would think that among most people here, families, mortgage payments, jobs and other commitments make traveling to Springfield unlikely. The whole reason that our representitives are there is so that we don't have to be(ideally anyway). This is exactly why it is important to keep in communication with them. When they know that the people are paying attention, they're more likely to represent them honestly. But, if you want to waste your vacation (yes I said WASTE!) Then like I said, good luck, tell me how it goes. |
Like I said before, I've heard tons of excuses. WASTE a vacation day??? It's people like you who are putting the nails in the coffin of the Illinois gunowner.  Phone calls just don't make a big enough impact on the gungrabbers in office. 10,000 people standing in front of the state capitol does!! ____________________________________ The only hope you have is to accept the fact that you are already dead. And the sooner you accept that, the sooner you will be able to function as a soldier is supposed to function, without mercy, without compassion, without remorse. |
| We can keep going around and around with this, but the fact is, we each do our own part. Maybe others and I don't go stand at the capitol building, but we are doing a part. Call it "excuses" if you wish, but we do our part. I have commitments for my vacation time, the least of which is for my personal enjoyment. I'll continue writing letters, sending E-mails, and making phone calls. When possible I'll make Face to Face contact with my rep/senator or others. Thats the part I wish to take. If and When I hit the Lotto, and no longer have to work and will have 356 days a year to do as I please, I will camp at the capitol if it will make a difference. until then I will continue in the manner I have been. |
I am my own one woman women's rights group - that would be for the right to carry, which I advocate for all people regardless of gender. I've been to Springfield to talk to my legislators once, but with one car, and an apolitical husband, getting downstate doesn't happen often for me. |
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I started a post like this a couple of months ago. Just talking about a rally in general and where anybody thought one should be. (Daley Plaza was in the back of my mind.) If I recall there was a fair amount of apathy in response and more than a few excuses. Followed by a well placed “Shitcago should fall into the lake.” or some other worn out line of crap. Hell, Chicago is where our fight is. (I’ll help you find parking) I don’t think Trapper said anything about quitting your job. What did get my attention was people talking about what they won’t do. Democracy is participatory but they won’t come to us on weekends. Trapper I’m all for it. I’ll take a vacation day or two to go to Springfield on Lobby day. Uh Oh. Lobby day? Here comes the inevitable, “ ISRA/NRA sold us out. They will never get a dime of my money.” If you think you are doing some extra little bit of good for your 2nd Amendment rights by not joining one of these organizations to “Show them” then you are truly bumpfiring into the berm. Sure the ISRA choked this past spring. Sure, the NRA is a ridiculous money pit. Other orgs are better? Maybe so. Get over it and move on. Join them all I say. When the tide is flowing against you, you have to get every oar in the water. If we can repeal Section 5845(f) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, the sporting purposes distinction goes away. U.S. HR1703 www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h109-1703 can help do just that. It has no support and sponsorship but so what. Row for that. Thanks Trapper JR |
Good post. While I understand we all have our seperate lives and families, and everyone can't make it to every lobby day, why can't we have one day where everyone makes it. Plan it a year in advance if need be. Give us time to get the word out. Who says it has to be in coordination with any other organization. If they want to jump on so be it. Why not just a bunch of us show up at the capitol, meet with our leaders and then have a mini-rally on the steps of the capitol. Then we go home. make sure the papers and the news get invited. |
| Honestly, Chitcago is where the Protests should be held! It's Chitcago that runs the state anyways. I can only speak for myself on this one, but I personally would like to see the whining pillowbiting gun haters try to take away my and others rights to own and etc...... cause I would bet the farm that the backlash would be deafening and painful for the idiots who tried. The big reason the Liberals are able to muster so many people for their protests is that most of their people are unemployed/retired and or college students. We would do better if our side on a whole boycotted all liberal supporting local businesses. We have more power by voting with our wallets. |
I'll be damned, it looks like I agree with something Trapper said!!! If something like that is planned, we need big numbers, at a minimum 50-100. If only a few people show up, and the press does anything with it, it will just be used against us. I can see it now, "7 People in Illinois Support Assault Weapons" With plenty of advance planning, I think even a bunch of us from up north could make it. |
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Now we are talking. Roark is right about not making a deafening thud. I think we all realize the foolishness of calling something a “million man” anything when it’s not really a mil. It does not necessarily have to coincide with lobby day. Though punctuating a good piece of legislation would be the point to make. We can’t just show up somewhere and stand there. There has got to be a point. The advantage of working with established groups is communication, infrastructure and… oh yeah communication. I like Wobisich’s point about considering Chicago. It’s the heart of enemy territory and would stick a magnificent mile down the mayor’s craw. Getting a permit would be another story. Again an organizational affiliation would help. The Capital you can just show up at. A city rally would be complicated. Lets keep talking about this. JR |
| Now we are talking! If we plan a march in Springfield it should be when the legislature will be there. As far as impending legislation, there will probably always be some form of anti gun legislation pending in Illinois. The anti's will play games and pull bills from being voted on when we turn out in large numbers, so I say we don't concern ourselves with that. We simply show up, and voice our concern over gun rights. If large numbers show up, our message will be clear. If 50 show up, it will be a joke. I'm quite sure we could get a hell of a lot of people to show up if we called all of our friends, and placed ads in our local papers. Start getting the word out early. If people have a year to plan ahead, it will make it better. People unfortunately get annoyed at the prospect of having to show up every year to support our gun rights. But if we can convince most to at least show up for the "big one", they may do it. This is still America, and we are still free. Better march while we still guns to march for! |
| I still think our side would be better served by staging a statewide rally at various sites. Our side is among the most overworked and busy of all. We should not put all out eggs in one basket. Possible sites would be Chitcago, Springfield and Carbondale. This would give us a majority of the state in terms of coverage, while minimizing the distance and time of travel for many potential supporters who might not otherwise show up. Also, we should make a point of getting a petition going for statewide CCW. |
This is correct. Chicago is indeed where the rallies should be held. Demonstrating in Springfield is preaching to the choir. Many of us are caught between responsibility and duty when it comes to this issue. I have personally been in Springfield but personally wouldn't waste five minutes of my life participating in anything spearheaded by the ISRA, that is simply a waste of time. Richard Pearson and the rest of the geriatric crowd that run that outfit are LONG past their prime. I think the bigger problem is people who are years behind the times trying to run things. i.e. Pearson and the ISRA, Babyboomer middle management, etc. I run a construction business, make loads of phone calls, send emails, alert the media and make the occasional trip to Springfield but the ISRA can kiss my ass, especially after the last massive fuck up on their parts with the "Gun show loophole" bullshit they pulled. So those who want to truely be sheep and be led to the proverbial gas chamber by the ISRA, be my guest. I have to go to work to subsidize Chicago and downstate welfare. |
It is still my birth week , so the wife is calling me up stairs. 
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More beefs with gun rights organizations? I submit that change comes from within. How can you get your results without being a member. I write the NRA and ISRA monthly. Not to tell them how stupid and ineffective they are but to tell them what issues are important to me as a member. Like the recent BATF&E ruling on imported parts and barrels. Like how the good spin they tried to put on the last legislative session was ridiculous and I was not buying it. These don’t have to be snail mail all the time. I have even gotten responses and action when I wrote in about helpful links on the website. The point is there are actual people there trying to do something. They want to hear from members because they want more members. JR |
I can vouch for him on that  .If any organization planned a "show of force" type of rally, I'd make time to go and bring friends. That includes Pearson and his senile buddies in the I$RA. I'm not about to waste a day on the "Lobby Day" crap. It's exactly the dull thud of an event that someone else mentioned. Far more influential was the SB1195 hearings a few years back, which had to be moved to another room due to the several hundred people who unexpectedly turned out. It sent a loud message to those guys. In short, I'm all for a display of unity on a large scale. I'm not going to waste my time with the same old shit I$RA wants to shovel out every year under the guise of being effective. As for the concept of change from within, some would argue that the same tactic was tried in the NRA by Neal Knox and a few of his friends, with little success. That doesn't mean it's impossible, but I do believe the bureaucracy is firmly entrenched. |
| I have a question for all of you that are crying about all the pro gun groups in Illinois. You proudly state that you are tired of the "geriatric" crowd in Springfield and won't drive down to support them. How admirable. Just think if our founders would have been equally as lazy. All of the founders, especially the southerners, were very succesfull businessmen with much to lose. Yet they found time to do what was right. Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot. It is a three hour drive south to protect civil liberties. That is WAY too much to ask of you. Think of the crossing of the Delaware, the Battle of New Orleans, the Battle of Gettysburg, the Ardenne, the Normandy Invasion, the Chosin Resovoir, the Mekong Delta, Cu Chi, Afghanistan, and Iraq. Yeah you all preach patriotism and Americana but you won't drive a couple of hours to protect your rights. Keep crying about how you have a business and just can't afford to take some time off. I won't forget this when the time comes and you all are complaining about our gun laws. It is because of the Northern crowd, that we in the south will lose our rights. Keep blaming everyone else but yourselves. |