[ARCHIVED THREAD] - This should be fun... (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 6/23/2012 5:19:56 AM EDT
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I'm toying with the idea of having a custom AR built. I want it to be piston operated, heavy barreled and supressed. Was in NFA yesterday and got a lot of good advice on the subject part of which included asking questions so, here I am.
If you were doing a custom build, what components would you use and why? |
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Is there a reason why you want a heavy barrel? What length are you considering? . This is going to be nothing but a completely impractical toy. I don't hunt and I'm not into tactical, I just want something to take to the range occasionally and make REALLY small holes in paper or out to the desert for plinking. As far as barrel length, I'm not set on any specific number. I was figuring on something in the 16" range but again, that's not set in stone. |
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Do not go piston, that's my opinion! After that most of your choices will be based on performance expectations and "feel." I think feel is extremely important concern as that indicates how well you will handle the rifle. My criteria fall into this order: barrel, trigger, sights (optics) stocks and free float hand guards are mission specific in my opinion as well. So define what you are trying to accomplish with the build and then part it out. Good luck. First is my most recent SBR build: Bravo Co 11.5" CL LW 1 in 7 with AAC 51T miter mount and Daniel Defense .625 gas block surrounded by an Apex Machine free float which is attached to a Colt A3 upper containing a Colt Bolt and Carrier whihc are pushed by a Spikes Tactical H3 housed in the MOE magpul butt end. Trigger is a Giessele SD-E. This rifle is accurate beyond expectations.  Better look at the upper.  Now if you are thinking one best rifle, My version is a Rock Creek melonited 18" rifle gas with Noveske switchblock and the AAC 51T with SPR - M4, again a free float by Apex, the feel is best and rail sections can be where ever you want them. Rainer Ultra Match upper, Bravo Co bolt and carrier, Giessele match trigger, Colt lower. Leupold MK4 - 16X now on a GG&G riser (not shown)  As to accuracy, the following is from the SBR, and it is repeatable!  The rifle is of course more accurate in general. |
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i like a stainless match barrel white oaks and wilson combat are nice choices
probably an mi or troy modular free float pick your stamp on receivers and bcg I got a henderson defense billet lower not to expensive for billet and can be had locally. nice trigger i went with a spikes nickle boron and will be putting in some jp low power springs, timney and geisle make some nice after market triggers as well. grip and stock are really a personal feel preference for a precision build maybe something like the prs stock ymmv enjoy the new build for piston I don't think there is another good choice besides adams arms and that would give you the bcg as well. |
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Quoted: Yep, the Rock Creek is what I have in mind. But why not piston?. From the research I've done they're much cleaner and more reliable than gas tube models. I choose Rock Creek because I was looking to try a cut rifled barrel in the AR platform. My Bolt rifle also sports a Rock Creek 5R and it is an awesome performer. I would however go with a Krieger after seeing how well glorifiedG's Krieger shoots. That is the way you want to go for small holes in paper. Lilja makes good tubes, as does many other top tier producers. WOA and Wilson not bad at all, Douglas for an SPR is a top choice. Rainier Ultra Match is another easy to acquire excellent choice. Regarding piston systems: Yes they do allow less gas (dirt) into the receiver area; HOWEVER they do not apply a forward impulse to the bolt just prior to unlocking. Additionally, they do have more parts and add more weight... Pistons are cool, that is what they really do. Build it yourself, and enjoy the knowledge and the accomplishment. It is very easy, and there are many ARFcommers in town that would help. One of our local members has an FDE PRS stock available for a decent amount, barely used. |
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Yeh, piston sucks. Or just buy one of them SCAR's or ACR's and a suppress them with a http://www.opticsplanet.com/night-optics-640x480-3x-thermal-rifle-scope-monocular.html on top so people know you have balls the size of donkey kong. |
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Opinions are vast on this subject so....
I'd stay DI. Yeah, they get dirty, but I haven't had that cause an issue with any of my AR's or military issued M4/M16A2. I also rarely clean my personal AR's before I hit 500 rds and thats usually only because I'm bored. Magazines are going to lock up your AR before powder residue in my experience. For range only toy, I'd go about 18" rifle gas with a SOPMOD stock. A2 stocks are just too long for me personally(I'm 6'4" so I really don't have an issue reaching the pedals either) I have a Giselle(SP?) SSA on one of mine and I like it, but maybe an SSA-E with the lighter pull would work better for a range toy. |
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Quoted: Yeh, piston sucks. Or just buy one of them SCAR's or ACR's and a suppress them with a http://www.opticsplanet.com/night-optics-640x480-3x-thermal-rifle-scope-monocular.html on top so people know you have balls the size of donkey kong. And a wallet that would make Obama cry "Not fair!" |
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Yeh, piston sucks. Or just buy one of them SCAR's or ACR's and a suppress them with a http://www.opticsplanet.com/night-optics-640x480-3x-thermal-rifle-scope-monocular.html on top so people know you have balls the size of donkey kong. Would the other panhandlers get upset if I stood on a street corner with a sign, "Will work for thermal image rifle scope"? 
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wylde is the type of chamber that is cut sort of an inbetween of 223 and 556 and will shoot both whereas the 223 chamber will only shoot 223 and the 556 chamber will supposedly shoot 223 less accurately.
If you go look up what mr wylde actually said about creating the reamer it's really designed for extra long 80 grain match bullets IMHO you're better off just getting a 556 chamber. |
| Just to add to the confusion, Noveske has his Model Zero chamber, these barrels are really accurate as well, I would buy another with no hesitation. You are right, this should be fun, and when you get it all together we get to see your range reports. Just curious, what AR do you have now and what do you think of it. |
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In reading ads I'm seeing the terms Wylde chamber and/or Wylde barrel. Is Wylde a particular manufacturer, a different caliber or something else? toward the bottom they talk about chambers: 5.56 vs .223 What You Know May Be Wrong, luckygunner.com/ |
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In reading ads I'm seeing the terms Wylde chamber and/or Wylde barrel. Is Wylde a particular manufacturer, a different caliber or something else? toward the bottom they talk about chambers: 5.56 vs .223 What You Know May Be Wrong, luckygunner.com/ that's a pretty indepth and well done article. sort of backs up my it's best to just get a 556 chamber. I'd go for the noveske over a wylde but they are up there white oak and wilson combat produce some excellent match barrels I would love to get my hands on some of the steyr steel everything I see about their process really impresses me. I hand load so no matter what barrel I'm running I work up the best load for it. It doesn't really matter how the barrel is chambered if I work up a load for it it will shoot great. I would not run my loads for my 556 chmaber through my wylde chamber without at least a couple hesitant test shots with my face away from the barrel really I would rather just work up a new load for it. call it paranoia call it over cautiousness but better safe than sorry. In a pinch I'd have no problem running 556 ammo in a 223 they are so dang close the difference is negligible but for extended use and high round count I'd rather keep the pressures down to reduce wear. If you want some dime size holes you either need to test a lot of different ammo to see what works best or handload. your dime size holes will gradually spread out with the life of the barrel, even after about 2500 rounds on my ss wilson combat barrel I see my groups have gone from sub moa to generally just over moa. Ultimately the chamber probably has less effect than say your heart rate, variations in powder charge, free float or not and manner of rest, trigger pull muzzle device barrel twist rate wind altitude etc.... but the 556 will give you more versatility. |
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Just to add to the confusion, Noveske has his Model Zero chamber, these barrels are really accurate as well, I would buy another with no hesitation. You are right, this should be fun, and when you get it all together we get to see your range reports. Just curious, what AR do you have now and what do you think of it. I don't own one now. I've owned a single AR in my life. It had a .223 match barrel. AFTER I bought it and 1K rounds of surplus 5.56 I found out .223 and 5.56 weren't the same thing.  I couldn't afford to feed it and really didn't have any use for it so I traded it in on my wife's first set of cowboy guns. Almost five years later I still don't NEED one, I just want one because let's face it, you can never have too many toys in your safe. 
Besides being a fun toy, I'm treating this entire endeavor as a learning experience. You all have forgotten more about ARs than I'll probably ever know. Most of the terminology, abbreviations and acronyms used in this thread so far are lost on me. So be prepared, you'll probably see some VERY stupid questions out of me. 
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To give you an idea, something like THIS is what I'm looking to buy/build.
Is $2k about right for that rifle? Even if it is, I'd prefer to buy from a local store. Just trying to get all my ducks in a row. |
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I like to build my own so that seems high to me depending on how much that scope is...
let's see if i can figure one for less we'll start at the back magpul prs stock $255 rifle length receiver extension kit $30 stripped lower $80 +ffl = $105 lpk $60 stripped upper $65 dust cover and fa $25 white oaks armament 26" match barrel $295 midwest industries free float $190 quality bcg $150 muzzle device $50 through in another $100 for tools and maybe gas tube gas block Harris bipod $80 that scope costs $270 a mag $15 a sling and mounts $100 so i guess that's not that far off my total there is $1790 if that rifle you linked has an upgraded trigger and you factor in some shipping and labor it's not a horrible deal I may have picked out nicer barrel and free float than what are on that gun too but those are like the 2 most important things |
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What's "lpk" ?
I was thinking more in the 18 - 20" range for barrel I'm planning on supressing it so it would be juuuuuust a bit more than $50 for muzzle device No sling or swivels. I don't plan on carrying it too far. (I'm old and lazy  )
I'd probably go for an upgraded trigger. |
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you should take a look in the build it yourself section there is a tacked thread how to assemble your own lower upper etc....
it's really awesome to build your own you'll know the ins and outs f every bit of it and it's really fun and easy plus with the build price i listed up there you'd have tools to build more
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Go to LaRue and get an OBR or Predator. However, this is what I built.
Lothar Walther 18" SS barrel with polygonal rifling and a .223 Wylde chamber. I didn't expect it, but when I was getting a rough zero the first time out, the bottom picture is the 10 shot result at 100yds using 55gr XM193. Not a round known for accuracy. Scope is a Leupold 1.5-5x. 
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This is one of mine. If i built it again, i might change some things, but not sure what. I dont remember exactly what or why i used the parts i did. but 10.5 seems a good length to suppress. It has like a hundred billion rounds through it. it works. http://i26.tinypic.com/29zbnyu.jpg 10.5 what? 10.5 inch barrel??? That seems awefully short for a rifle. 
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chrome on the bolt and carrier will offer better lubricity, but is hardly needed. I cant see chrome on a trigger group being beneficial unless the bearing surfaces are stoned and polished after they are chrome plated...which seems unlikely.
Hogan, chip mccormick and timney all make non-adjustable drop in trigger groups that (by all accounts) are quite good and are reliable. i personally have a hogan/kies 4.5 lb drop in and its probably my favorite trigger i have ever used on an AR. But generally, for reliability, you want a trigger group that is non-adjustable. Adjustable triggers have a tendency to fall out of adjustment and become unreliable. |
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i went with a spikes nickle boron trigger group it's nice and smooth and clean.
I still intend to add some jp low power springs just to lighten it a bit more. never tried one but all the reviews I've read of timney geisle alg and even rock river two stage triggers have been great. There are also nickle boron plated bolt carrier groups. Supposedly Nickle boron is self lubricating. I still put some lube on my trigger NiB cleans up pretty easily. |
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even rock river two stage triggers have been great. This is the direction I'm leaning. A friend of mine from Metro pointed me to the Rock River site and you can pretty much build what you want right from their website. An added bonus is the NFA is a RR dealer. |
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even rock river two stage triggers have been great. This is the direction I'm leaning. A friend of mine from Metro pointed me to the Rock River site and you can pretty much build what you want right from their website. An added bonus is the NFA is a RR dealer. RRA 2 stage NM triggers are pretty decent, BUT, for just a bit more, you get a better trigger. I have a few RRA triggers, one is acting a bit squirrly. Just Spend more. Listen to me now, hear me later. |
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Of course you want NiB coatings and chrome lined EVERYTHING. Why? Because they look fucking cool, are easier to clean, some require little to no lube especially good in a dusty dirty environment. (Read: Nevada when it's windy) and because they will last longer because they have EXTRA stuff on them that takes more time to wear off or flake. But triggers:
THIS: http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Geissele-AR15-Super-3-Gun-Trigger-p/geissele%20s3g%20trigger%20spin.htm I'm telling you this because I went to the gun store and played with every trigger I could find that they had and there was a bunch. This one stood out. I can't say it's made me a better shooter. I can say that Geissele doesn't make bitch triggers. I checked. They will last a long time. |
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Quoted: Quoted: even rock river two stage triggers have been great. This is the direction I'm leaning. A friend of mine from Metro pointed me to the Rock River site and you can pretty much build what you want right from their website. An added bonus is the NFA is a RR dealer. NO RRA!!!!! Bro, we love you. The picture of the rifle you showed was gay. Hold on, Imma go get my camera to show you what a non gay AR looks like.
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Basic rifle aside, I'm also interested in supressing it. Why? Beats me, just something I'd like to do. Do they make supressors that fit target bull barrels? Which brand will give me the best value for my $$$? You can have a Target Bull Barrel threaded, and then you can put anything you want on the end of it.......suppressor, comp, flash hider, golfball launcher |
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Basic rifle aside, I'm also interested in supressing it. Why? Beats me, just something I'd like to do. Do they make supressors that fit target bull barrels? Which brand will give me the best value for my $$$? You can have a Target Bull Barrel threaded, and then you can put anything you want on the end of it.......suppressor, comp, flash hider, golfball launcher Sweet. That's another piece of very good info. So, on to optics. Who's got opinions on long range glass? My normal go-to brands are Nikon a Leupold. Any other names out there that offer that level of quality for less money? |