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Hello,

I am someone who has permanent, debilitating complications from LASIK eye surgery.  A young man using the pseudonym "notsubby" used to participate on a LASIK patient forum where I also participate.  Just a few days ago one of the other patients in my network discovered a post on this forum saying that "notsubby" had passed away.  If anyone can give me more information about notsubby, I would really appreciate it.  

Best regards,
Broken Eyes

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Thanks for your kind reply, rob944s2.

What does  NVHTF stand for?

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Thanks for your kind reply, rob944s2.

What does  NVHTF stand for?

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I had some e-mails with him back in 2007.  He used the e-mail address:  [email protected]  which leads me to believe his name was Vincent.  Beyond that, I do not have any further information.  Damn shame.  

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I had done a bit of reading on him in the archives about a year ago when I first heard someone mention him in relation to laser eye surgery. I remember that he was very upset with the doctor who performed the procedure but would not disclose his name out of fear of legal retaliation.

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It's been a tough Thanksgiving holiday –– two more LASIK patients expressing thoughts of suicide.  There are no solutions for these patients.  If there was a solution, I would have found it.  That's why it's so important that I keep lobbying for changes to the regulation of LASIK devices.

If anybody can locate an obituary or something to verify Vincent's death, I would appreciate it.

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Thanks Buttercup,

BE

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The majority of lasik patients realize an IMPROVEMENT in their vision and in  their quality of life.  Trying to take down an entire medical field and the medical professionals in it because YOU and a small percentage of others had a poor result is malicious.  Please go back and read the consent forms that I GUARANTEE your surgeon had you read and sign, and you will see that you were advised of all of the possible (even poor) outcomes that could result from you MAKING THE DECISION to have elective surgery.  You are typing coherently on an internet forum, so I will assume that you are literate and were able to understand the consents that you signed.content of those forms.

So, whatever your agenda is, for the record, I don't agree with it.  If you simply want to offer NotSubby's family some healing words, then that is noble.  If you are here recruiting for your anti-doctor campaign, I think it should be done elsewhere.....this is a gun forum for gun enthusiasts.  If you aren't one, then there is little here that would interest you.  

I am truly sorry that this happened to you.  I pray that medical advances in the future can give you some relief.  But I don't for a moment believe that your Lasik doctor, or anyone elses Lasik doctor had a single malicious thought or motive before, during or after performing your, or anyone elses eye surgery.  Without malice, I find no fault.  It is most likely that your surgeon thought he was doing the very best thing he could do to permanently improve your vision and your quality of life.  

That's my take, being a medical professional, and a Lasik patient myself.

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One of our own killed himself over his failed procedure and Broken_Eyes came here looking for him. B_E is most certainly welcome here even if he isn't a firearm enthusiast. He isn't some random internet know-it-all who is talking out of his ass,  his life has been forever changed by this procedure and he is welcome to share his views considering his personal experience with the matter.

The consent forms don't exactly say you have a % chance of forever ruining your vision and may want to kill yourself over it because you paid for that privilege.

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BE...in your studies, have you come across a surgery that is "safer" or have less complications than LASIK?

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Hi NickOfTime,

PRK is safer than LASIK, in my opinion, because there is no flap, but I recommend no unnecessary eye surgery.  The reason docs promote LASIK instead of PRK is simple –– money.  LASIK is faster (takes just a few minutes) and more profitable, less chair time.  And because of the quick visual recovery (or not) of LASIK, patients are more likely to recommend it to their friends and family –– free advertising.  The most common complaints of PRK patients are dry eyes, pain, haze, and regression.  Recently docs have begun using a toxic substance, mitomycin C, on the eye when they perform PRK.  There is plenty of debate inside the ophthalmology-medical community about the safety of mitomycin C.  

In contrast to LASIK, cataract surgery is performed one eye at a time –– for good reason.  Most LASIK surgeons do not offer patients the option of having one eye lasered at a time.  Bilateral LASIK places both of the patient's eyes at risk at the same time.  A well-known Los Angeles LASIK surgeon said that he has heard other LASIK surgeons say that the reason to offer only bilateral LASIK is so that the patient won't have one good eye for comparison with the LASIK eye.

As far as the latest device, "implantable contact lenses", forget it.  I could write a book about why I would not place that device inside the eyes of my worst enemy.

Sorry to be so long-winded... yes, I am quite passionate about this subject.  

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BTW, Siems was Notsubby's doc.

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Mitomycin C is toxic in the same way any antibiotic or other drug is.  It's used in eye surgery to prevent the formation of scar tissue, which is pretty important in the case of PRK.  It's not only used in PRK, it's been used in other types of surgery (eye  and otherwise) as well.

Aspirin is a toxic substance.  Tylenol is a toxic substance.  Azithromycin is a toxic substance.  Most, if not all, drugs are toxic when used improperly or in improper doses.

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So, whatever your agenda is, for the record, I don't agree with it.  If you simply want to offer NotSubby's family some healing words, then that is noble.  If you are here recruiting for your anti-doctor campaign, I think it should be done elsewhere.....this is a gun forum for gun enthusiasts.  If you aren't one, then there is little here that would interest you.  

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Yes, I know it's used to prevent haze (scar tissue).  I would never consent to having that stuff put on my eyes unless it was absolutely necessary, and PRK is not necessary.

Take a look at what it can do when applied to the eyes:

http://www.lasik-flap.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=729

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Please don't make blanket statements that are not true.

PRK may not be necessary *for you*.  For some people it is absolutely necessary.  For nearly all others, the quality of life increase after eye surgery is extraordinary.

The link you posted seems to indicate that you have collected some studies on the web about Mytomycin C.  You can find those studies for every single drug ever used, for anything, including Aspirin and Tylenol.

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I think most people would agree that LASIK and PRK are not medically necessary.  

Yes, abstracts of most peer-reviewed medical journal articles are available on the Internet at pubmed.gov or at the website of the journal.  In addition to publicly available abstracts, I have a subscription to two ophthalmology journals, so I have the full text of hundreds of LASIK and PRK related medical studies.  Additionally, I sometimes go to the local university medical library to access the full text of other ophthalmology journals.  I put all of those abstracts together in one string to make it easy for other patients to research the effects of MMC.

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Uh huh. Just so you know I for one have my fucked up vision thanks to Dr. Wang or Wong or whatever his name was in Torrance California. I signed all the medical consent forms and whatnot and he flippin butchered me with his RK. To this day when I get an eye test done I have to warn the optometrist when he gets ready to look at my eyes under the microscope he is gonna freak out. The "doc" was supposed to put 6 or so cuts in each eye...this hack did over 30 in each eye.

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No, most people would not agree that Lasik and PRK are not medically necessary, especially the military personnel for whom it makes a life and death difference every day.  Our aviators and SOF personnel were among the first customers of PRK, because of the obvious advantages it brings them.  Anecdotally, I don't know a single person in the military who has had any complications or issues with the procedure, and I know hundreds of people who have had it.

You are bringing a bias that is incorrect to the discussion, and you are pushing an agenda that is based in incomplete understanding and a desire to hurt those to whom you assign the blame for your issues.

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I know a lot more about refractive surgery in the military than I ever wanted to know.  You have no idea.  You don't know me.  

I have corresponded with several servicemen who had terrible results from LASIK in the military but were afraid to report it.  I also know a military physician who had complications from LASIK, and has spoken about it publicly:

http://www.lasiksurgerywatch.org/voices/voices_08_25_2008.htm

Here's something for you to consider, and please don't shoot the messenger.  

http://www.lasikcomplications.com/lasik-prk-refractive-surgery-in-the-military.html

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You can post links to your anti-surgery websites all day long –– they're heavily biased and often based on misreporting of the facts, and as a result have no credibility –– just like the anti-anthrax-shot websites.  I've seen it all, I recognize the sites you're linking for what they are.  We all know there are risks of complications, but those complications are extremely rare.

You might also want to note that you keep responding with links primarily about LASIK, while I'm talking about PRK.  I don't condone Lasik, and I strongly recommend that people not have that surgery done due to the possible issues that may arise from a military lifestyle.  As far as I know, most refractive surgery that is performed in the military is PRK.

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Please point out one fact that I have asserted which you believe is not true so that I can direct you to a source that you might believe.  By the way, I believe all of the points made on the sites that I am linking to have references to the original source.  If you don't believe something because it's on a site that you don't feel is credible, at least follow the link to the source to see if anything has been misrepresented.

Did you read the article about the death of soldier Pat Tillman?  Quote: "One of the four shooters, Staff Sgt. Trevor Alders, had recently had PRK laser eye surgery. Although he could see two sets of hands "straight up," his vision was "hazy," he said." Source: CBS News  
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/11/09/terror/main2165223.shtml

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Broken Eyes.  Please let me clarify. Again I cannot express how sorry I am that you have had such devastating consequences from your procedure.  And I believe that your desire to encourage prospective patients to "do their homework" is noble, and I applaud it.  Anyone considering any sort of elective surgery, I believe, has the obligation to do their research, and come to their own conclusions.  

The only sticking point I have is any sort of attacks or efforts to criminalize the eye-care professional community at large.  I do not believe that lasik and eye-surgery specialists are malicious, or that the cause anyone harm knowingly or intentionally.  Yes, I am sure there are practitioners that are specifically guilty of malpractice, but they should be dealt with individually, and through the proper licensure board channels.  

That is all.

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I see that no one will accept my challenge to dispute one specific point that I have made against LASIK.  

Josh, it's clear that we are not going to agree.  You won't consider the data that I have provided because you don't like the package that it comes in (what about Consumer Reports –– are they in on the conspiracy, too?) If a medical study says that over 20% of LASIK patients have night vision problems, you refuse to believe it unless what?  Unless it's on a LASIK surgeon's website?  How could they sell LASIK if they provided facts like that?  They have to downplay and minimize the problems.  You won't take the time to follow the links to the medical journals or go to pubmed.gov and use the search feature and look it up on an unbiased government site. So there's not much more I can say if you refuse to look for yourself. This is the problem –– people do not want to believe that doctors would harm their patients.  Doctors are not Gods.  They are people.  Some of them are good, some of them are bad.  Some of them want to heal, and practice good medicine.  Others ignore the hippocratic oath and put their wallets before patients' best interest.  I'm sorry this happens, but it does.  

If you lived one day in my shoes, you might see things differently.  I deal with people every single day who live a marginalized life because of LASIK.  

ARin, I have seen and been on the receiving end of the attacks (lawsuits, harassment, threats, email hacking, surveillance, defamation, and more) from the LASIK industry on injured LASIK patients who exercise their right to free speech to warn others that LASIK is not as safe as it is portrayed. One female LASIK patient's elderly mother was threatened although she has no involvement in our activities whatsoever.  Another patient's wife was harassed.  Another patient's husband was threatened.  All of this is very real and even I sometimes can't believe they get away with it. I have made several reports to law enforcement agencies but they don't seem to care.  Several attempts were made by a LASIK industry representative to have outspoken patients fired from their jobs.  Self-employed patients' businesses were threatened with legal action.  Lawsuits such as these are called SLAPP lawsuits.  They are frivolous lawsuits intended to silence individuals who cannot afford the cost of litigation.  Big Ophthalmology has no shortage of cash when you consider that LASIK is a multi-billion dollar industry (at least it was until the recession –– not so sure now).

Speaking of the recession, when the recession hit and LASIK volumes dropped, one surgeon who was previously part of the group that funds patient harassment was arrested and later convicted of a murder-for-hire plot against his business partner-LASIK surgeon.  Apparently the doctor wanted all of the LASIK procedures at the practice for himself.  I would provide you a link, but you don't like my links, so google "lasik murder plot". My point is, some doctors truly are evil.  

Another LASIK/cataract surgeon killed himself and his wife when the feds closed in on him for financial fraud and injuring patients through unnecessary surgeries.  Again, find your own link –– google "Philip Gabriele murder-suicide".

The primary professional association of LASIK surgeons is the American Society of Cataract and Refractive Surgery (ASCRS). Let me give you just one example (of many) of some of the bad behavior of this group.  When the media picked up on stories of LASIK-related suicides, some members of ASCRS put on comedy skits at ASCRS annual convention making fun of damaged and suicial LASIK patients.  These doctors thought it was so funny that one of them put videos on YouTube.  It was absolutely shocking and appalling. If you want to know more about this incident, you can google "ASCRS disavows offensive videos".

There are many, many more stories of very bad behavior by LASIK surgeons.  Like I said, doctors are not Gods, they are just people, and some of them are greedy and narcissistic.  One of the best-known LASIK surgeons in California said in an interview that he gave up general ophthalmology and took up the practice of LASIK because he does not like sick people.  Good grief –– would you want this guy cutting on your eyes?  

The webmaster of LasikComplications.com received an email from a physician in another field of medicine recently.  He said that the analogy of the LASIK industry to Big Tobacco is accurate.  He also said that he fears for our safety and is praying for us.

My personal LASIK story is almost unbelievable.  It involves some very bad (and very prominent) LASIK surgeons.  I could write a book about my experiences.  It's really almost unbelievable.  People that know me well have said to me many times, "you should write a book".

Your eyes will never be open until you open your mind to the possibility that there is truth in what I'm saying.  I have researched LASIK and its associated complications more than any layperson in the world, I promise you that.  

Suicide, depression, illness, disability... they are not pretty.  A lot of people are turned off by it.  I understand that.  That's why we thought that notsubby had just moved on and tried to put his bad LASIK behind him. Apparently his complications were more than he could bear.  He was not the first and sadly won't be the last as long as LASIK is being performed.  I have sometimes described my role in the patient advocacy community as a body catcher, but I prefer the label of the LASIK librarian. I like doing research.  

Like I said, I didn't come here to debate the merits of LASIK.  I simply came here looking for information.  Once I began to engage with the community, I figured that sooner or later I would ruffle some feathers.  I don't like confrontation, I don't like stepping on toes or upsetting anyone. But I will not back down from a debate about LASIK because my fear is that someone considering LASIK will think that I backed down because I was wrong or I was lying or I had a hidden agenda or I didn't have my facts straight.  

As I have said repeatedly –– To anyone who has had LASIK or PRK and is happy, I am happy for you and I hope you never have a problem.  Thank God for your precious eyesight.

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I have defamed no one.  I have told the truth.

If I provided court documents and transcripts of legal proceedings, would you believe that?  Let me know if you're interested.

Why don't you buy the book, "Waking Up Blind, Lawsuits Over Eye Surgery".  It was written by an Atlanta eye doctor.  It's a true story.  Maybe it would open your eyes to the corruption and the white wall of silence.

I also suggest you read up on SLAPP lawsuits.  A person can spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on a legal defense.  Do you have that kind of money to front for a defense?

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I think I've come full circle here on this thread. Shoot the messenger.

Josh, I don't think you want to know the truth.  If you did, you would check out some of the facts I've stated before calling me a liar.  I'm not the only one saying it.  I just happen to be the only one willing to post on a gun forum because I'm a supporter of the 2nd amendment.  

The person who spoke to Vincent's family member is a medical doctor.  He would tell you exactly what I'm telling you.  There's a research psychologist, PhD, author and professor –– he would verify what I've said.  There's a scientist in NC, a PhD –– she would tell you exactly what I'm telling you.  All of the bizarre stuff that you refuse to believe –– many other people can confirm.  But they won't post on a gun forum.  And you refuse to look elsewhere. I've offered documents, but you don't want to know the truth.

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The funny part about the argument between Joah and B-E is that Josh come across as biased for eye surgery as B-E is biased against it.  To be clear, I don't have a problem with either bias, but I thought that was interesting.

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Rob, I tried to reply to your PM, but it tells me that my message box is full and I can't figure out how to fix the problem.  I deleted some messages, but it's still saying the same thing and not letting me reply.  

Josh, you accused me of defamation.  A statement is not defamation unless it's untrue.  I have only told the truth.  I'm not a liar, and I am certainly not delusional.  I have offered legal documents and documents turned over to the court as part of the discovery process to prove my statements. I have a file drawer full of depositions from LASIK surgeons that would make your jaw drop, but I guess you think I'm making all of this up.

The 'funny' thing is, I didn't even tell you about the worst of it (what happened to a friend of mine).  It's all out there on the Internet, though.  And trust me, it's all documented.

Believe me, I wish these things were not true.  I wish we lived in a perfect world where people are kind to each other, and doctors always abide by the hippocratic oath to "First do no harm".  Vincent, along with at least 4 others (probably many more that I'll never know about), are not here anymore because of an unnecessary eye surgery that is promoted as if it's as safe as a haircut.  You should go to the Lasik-Flap forum and read what Vincent said about his LASIK surgeons (he had a 2nd "corrective" surgery) –– how he was lied to, and the stupid things they said to him. But I know you won't read it for yourself because the site turns you off.  I have to admit, when I first found the LASIK patient forums they turned me off, too.  I was sure that they were all wrong and that my eyes would get fixed someday, somehow.

I should not have engaged in a debate with you, Josh.  I know better.  Just coping with my eye problems and the snowball effect on my life is stressful enough.