Posted: 4/10/2008 6:11:04 PM EDT
| I was looking into insuring my firearms and accessories. I talked to my State Farm agent whom stated I could add a rider to my current policy. Looking for other insurance companies coverages and rates (other than NRA) I stumbled arcoss some state farm gun owners whom had their policies canceled due to shooting on their property. I dont have any property on which to shoot howeve if I am able to own a large enough parcel I would no question Hunt yotes,rabbits,and plink. I am now wondering if their are any gun friendly insurance companies. |
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The reason they don't want to insure it is they have no idea how to rate for it, and they don't want to get reamed on a big personal liability claim. For the same reason, diving boards, pool slides, trampolines, and certain breeds of dogs are often enough to get an application declined. I have yet to see one that asked a question about shooting, but I don't deal with State Farm. In more rural areas, hunting/shooting questions may be common. My advice would be to not ask about it, unless the specific question comes up on an application. An independent agent/broker is supposed to be looking out for the best interests of the client, whereas an agent who works directly for one company is going to be more keenly interested in looking out for the best interests of the company first. Asking questions to the wrong type of agent might not be the best idea. From the standpoint of an insurance company, firearms just are not a good thing. They are expensive, get stolen, lost, or burned up and they sometimes spawn mega-dollar lawsuits, even in clear cut cases of self-defense, that the insurance company is obligated to pay to defend. The key is finding companies who have yet to make restrictive policies. Just don't expect any to be pro-gun, and you won't be so disappointed. |
I do have a few items wich would be over the 1500. How do you go about "blue booking" the items I know you might be able to find somthing in the gun values book however at least one is optics and one rifle is not in the gun value book. If you just write down any value how do they verify. 
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I have State Farm and have the "rider" on my policy for several firearms. They weren't exactly thrilled about the policy, until I added a personal umbrella liability policy as well. When I did this, they were more receptive. Maybe it is the added premium, but they need to be able to cover their losses in the event of an event causing a lawsuit. Just my two cents. |
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There are three different ways an insurance company is going to be involved with your firearms. -Property: insuring the guns themselves from theft/loss/damage. Most homeowner's policies are very limited on how much coverage they will pay for firearms ($2,000 or so), and pay it on a depreciated value basis. So if you have a break in, and your two SIGs and a Glock are gone, they will try and find out what the weapons cost when new and when you bought them, the expected life of the pistols, depreciate the value, then give you a check for that amount minus the deductible. If you are carrying a $1,000 deductible on your homeowner's policy, you might get a check for say $500 for all three pistols. This will probably make you very unhappy. Now lets say there was a fire, and all your guns were ruined: both SIGs, the Glock, your two scoped deer rifles, two shotguns, including your dad's $5,000 Merkel, and your four black rifles. Expect $2,000 included in your settlement check to cover your whole collection. You can get first dollar coverage from most companies if you have everything appraised and pay for special coverage on them. If you have a homeowners policy, you can add this with a Inland Marine floater (the "rider" SA_Cornhusker mentioned). This coverage raises the cost of your homeowner's insurance, but usually has no deductible. This is exactly what you want to have if you have a break in or fire. A fire-resistant gun vault is obviously a great idea. -Liability: If someone sues you for something (lets say it involves a firearm), standard homeowners policies will defend the lawsuit in court and pay out a judgement up to the limit of liability. Most policies allow you to go up to $500k or even $1 million of this coverage for a few dollars a month more than the base coverage of $100,000. A Personal Umbrella Liability policy adds lots of extra coverage (usually $1-5 million) to your liability limit. All this extra coverage for about $220-$250/year for a $1 million UL policy. So if you got sued and the $300,000 on your homeowners wasn't enough to cover it, the UL policy would pay the rest up to its limit. The catch is that you must have high enough underlying limits to qualify for it first. On homeowners, the number starts at $300,000. No problem, as I said already, it is cheap to get that much anyway. The tough part is that since the UL policy also covers excess liability on your vehicles, the underlying insurance there must also qualify. Most want $250,000 per person/$500,000 per accident on bodily injury liability, and $100,000 of property damage liability. The state minimums here are $15/000/$30,000 and $10,000. Add a few young drivers and/or some claims or tickets, and this can be very expensive. -Declinations/Exclusions: this would be where they won't cover you for homeowners at all if you have something they don't like (guns, dogs, pools, etc.), or won't cover losses related to the thing they don't like. It would be fair to label these companies anti-gun if they decline/exclude you for firearms, IMO. All this stuff applies to people with renter's or condo insurance as well, BTW.
As I said before, the insurance companies are scared of the liability part of firearms, but not so much the property part. They don't like hearing how pissed off the guy with all the burned up/underinsured guns is from an irate customer standpoint. It is odd for them to want to add the umbrella policy, since it dramatically increases their exposure, and they don't make all that much extra for it, unless they are getting you to up your other limits at the same time. They are not the ones covered in a lawsuit, they are the ones doing the covering. And one more thing: remember my description of how the insurance company will pay for the stolen SIGs and Glock (depreciated value)? This is how they will value all/most of your stuff with a standard policy. That $3,000 sofa you bought 13 years ago but still looks great might only be worth $400 now in their eyes. If you want to be paid what a comparable sofa would cost new, you need to add this coverage with an endorsement. If you don't know if you have it, ask your agent or look for "personal property replacement cost coverage" on your policy. Again, this is something you have to pay extra for in most cases. Don't wait to find out the hard way after a fire or burglary that you thought you had it but don't. Many agents are trying to be as price-competitive as possible and don't bother to explain this to their insureds. You should know how your losses will be settled before leaving with a policy. If you don't want to pay the extra $$ (typically $80-$150 per year) then fine, but it shouldn't be a surprise. You can usually add this if you want it and don't have it right now, BTW. Then ask him/her why they didn't tell you about it in the first place, and watch the fun begin... |
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I use Collectibles Insurance Services, which is part of Inland Marine. I used to schedule my guns on my homeowners policy, but as I added more guns, getting a separate special policy just for guns was way cheaper. Compared to the NRA $ amounts listed, my policy is at about 60% less for replacement value. I don't know if the NRA provides better coverage, but if the difference is an insurance company paying purchase price vs replacement cost, for most of my guns replacement cost is more than purchase price. |
This is from the NRA Insurance website, in the faqs section under ArmsCare Plus:
Actual Cash Value (ACV) is essentially the insurance term for depreciated value. As far as the gun that doesn't appear in the book, you should try and find an expert to appraise it for you. A collector's firearms website might be a good place to get a referral.
Inland Marine is a type of insurance. When you schedule your firearms, you are essentially getting a inland marine policy on them, but it is tied to your homeowner's policy. If you have enough firearms, at some point (as dbailey223 discovered) it can become more cost effective to insure them on a truly separate policy.
This is where it can get really sticky. Every company handles the claims a little differently, but just figure if you have a receipt for $2,500 but replacement is now $3,500, you aren't going to get more than you paid for it, unless they tell you otherwise in advance. Get it in writing... Having a fire or burglary is always a bad thing. Expect that you won't get the full value of any of your stuff, regardless of how good your insurance is. There is a big difference between being a little dissatisfied and being furious and feeling like you got ripped off (again), however. This is why it is a good investment to get that nice fire safe, too. |
If you dont mind me asking how much per 1000 do you pay. Nra will cost near 350 annually hoping Inland Marine might be more competitive especially since its a depreciation style policy |
That was how I took your post. anotherhession, inland marine is a type of policy, not an insurance company. Think of it as a way of saying "personal articles" in our context, and you have it. |
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About $6.46 per $1,000, but I don't know if that rate stays the same because they have a table that you use, with a certain premium depending upon the range of values that you assign. You can get an appraisal, or guess yourself. If you guess low, you screw yourself in the event of a loss. If you guess you high, you could pay more for insurance than you need to. |
thanks for the all of the info Ill be checking into it this week |
When I turned in my form, the one rifle that was over their $1500 point, I spec'd out based on what was on it. |