Posted: 4/18/2005 3:52:46 PM EDT
|
Condition 1 - one in the chamber, hammer back, safety on 2 - one in the chamber, hammer down, safety off 3 - empty chamber, hammer down (up is OK too on a 1911, it makes charging your gun easier) , safety off Which do you carry? Why? Personally, I am condition three unless on duty or in Indian Country.  Let the games begin...... Happy Ishoot?  Thanks V OUT |
Well V, Let's give em' the whole story..... I sent an e-mail to my personal e-mail list regarding an e-mail that I received from a LEO friend of mine, that received an e-mail from a LEO friend of his regarding the DEA (ICE) Agent that was killed by the guy who killed the judge, the clerk, and the deputy in the Atlanta courthouse last month. Here is the e-mail that I sent to my list (including V). You be the judge.... Be Safe. Joe OUT Atlanta Police Shootings Lessons Learned (A Must Read!) Dear Friends, The below was sent to me by a LEO friend. Most of you that have gone through any of my firearm training courses know how much I stress the importance of carrying a "hot" gun for self-defense. To some I might even sound like a broken record about this. Look, if you are carrying a firearm in "Condition Three" (full mag, empty chamber, hammer down), you are ASKING to be killed. You will be no safer in "Condition Three" than you would be if you just employed positive firearm safety and good handling habits with a hot gun. Some of you may remember this article that I authored on "Condition Three" two years ago. For those who have read it, read it AGAIN; for those who have not read it, read it and LEARN! Ishoot2live's Condition Three Article Remember: "Complacency Kills." The one time you are complacent is the one time Murphy will find you! Keep your gun hot, your awareness in Yellow, your Combat Mindset ready to attack the attacker, and be prepared to fight and never give up. Be Safe. Joe ****************************************************** Forward Header_____________________ Subject: ICE Agent Killed by Cop Killer info.... Author: XXXXXX X XXXXXX Date: 04/15/2005 9:09 PM FYI... Remember, you are REQUIRED by CBP regulations to have a round in the chamber of your duty weapon, while at work. Don't let this happen to you. Be Safe. XXX XXX XXXXXX Louisville, KY All, Last night, I learned of facts concerning the shooting of the ICE agent, deputies, judge and court reporter in Atlanta that were not made public for obvious reasons. The ICE agent who was killed, was going to his house to lay tile and when he entered his house, he observed the cop killer laying on the floor asleep. The ICE agent pulled his weapon and ordered the subject to stand up. When the cop killer stood up, he had the slain deputie's Glock in his waistband, knowing that he was going to get the death penalty anyways, he drew the Glock to shoot the agent. Before the cop killer could get the Glock out of his waistband, the agent pulled the trigger on his weapon and CLICK! The agent had loaded his pistol, but failed to chamber a round. Before he could TAP RACK REASSESS, he took one round to the arm and one to the chest, he bled to death before help arrived. This of course was one of the worst instances that one could be placed in, going up against someone who doesn't care if he lives or dies (such as Al-queda guys etc..). It is very difficult to survive these encounters without a lot of tactical thinking and preperation. Remember, when the gun goes on, check to see if you have a round in the chamber and the magazine is firmly seated. Make it a habit every time you pick up the gun. Don't just rack the slide and hope one goes in, because the pickup arm may slip and not grab a catridge. Also, have the will to live, nothing that guy can do, is going to beat me! Have an attitude, WIN! DO NOT ever go into green mode at work and think this will never happen to me! There is one officer in Lynden who was in the shootout on the Southern Border who would differ with you. In the last month, we have had 3 mental cases come across the border. Any of them could have planned what the Atlanta cop killer did. As the guns flow north and the dope south, we are going to see a change in attitude, if I knew I was facing 20 years in prison for dope in the US, you would have a hard time stopping me from getting back to Canada. Also on primary (trucks too), if I know I am caught, what do I have to lose. Take time and be careful, you new guys have a long career ahead and I will bet you will be involved in something in the next 20 years. We always learn from the unfortunate mistake of another officer. Learn from this one. XXXXX |
|
Now now IS.... That is not the WHOLE story. This has been a bit of contention with us since you found out I and ALOT of others (your cous) carry in 3. I have 12 per your one that states condition does NOT matter. Hell, I wrote for SWAT magazine (showed you some articles) for years. You should delete your post in all fairness. Let us see what evolves........ V OUT |
My post is nothing personal towards you, V. I felt that posting the e-mail that I sent to everyone on my list would be a good argument supporting MY position on carrying "hot." I know that you carry C3, but that's how the military trains their troops. I am from a different school I guess. You are welcome to post your SWAT Magazine articles supporting C3. Just trying to present the readership with objectiveness. I OUT |
|
1 - one in the chamber, hammer back, safety on on the RARE occurrence that i carry a 1911 2 - one in the chamber, hammer down, safety off N/A 3 - empty chamber, hammer down (up is OK too on a 1911, it makes charging your gun easier) , safety off is this REALLY an option? Anyone out there with airsoft pistols? We can demonstrate this one really quickly. Otherwise, YES, i carry pistols like this--in my range bag. 4 - loaded chamber, striker ready: YES, for my Glock/Kahr/Keltec
|
|
Chiz Condition 4 (no such thing) is condition One. IS, You know I cannot post those articles without written consent from SWAT. You'll have to look up individual issues. As for the article you wrote and the ones I wrote, YEAH! Military trains condition one, as I stated Indian country. What is Airsoft? Enough said. I just want to see what readers/board members carry. V OUT |
|
Glock 17,19,26,21 or 30: Full mag, one in the chamber. Ruger Vaquero: Hammer down on 6 loaded chambers. Smith 625: Hammer down on 6 loaded chambers. Ruger MKII: Full Mag with round in the chamber , safety on. P-08 Luger: Full mag, round in the chamber, safety on . Taurus 85Ti: hammer down on 5 loaded chambers. When I carried a Para Ord P13, always had one in the chamber, hammer back, safety on. Cocked locked and ready to ROCK. A firearm carried in a condition not ready for action is a bludgeon. If safety is a concern, learn to properly handle the weapon or consider carrying a nerf bat instead, just so nobody gits hurt. I only write articles of interest on the walls of public toilets. |
WP, Unless you have owned a 1911, you have not experienced what a true combat handgun really is. I carried my out of the box Stainless Commander for almost nine years (then I got my Sig) and it's one of the most accurate, dependable handguns I have ever owned/fired. I still have it and I carry it when I am not carrying the Sig. When I do carry the 1911, it is Condition One (Cocked and Locked) all the time.... All I have ever replaced on that gun is the extractor. Other than that, 12,000 rounds and it "still drives dem tacks!"..... Be Safe. Joe |
|
No matter if I'm carrying my 1911 or my glocks I always carry in condition 1. It all comes down to training. Do you train to draw your weapon and rack the slide? If not better hope under stress you remember to do so. Train like you fight and fight like you train. Why lost he extra second or two on racking the slide during the fight? Please do not take this as a flame but those few moments spent racking the slide could be the deciding factor if you go home or not. Also its said it takes 1.5 seconds to react to someone else's reaction. So you're already behind the curve when you draw out and have to rack the slide. Another 1 - 2 seconds to rack the slide and come up on target. Thats 2.5 - 3.5 seconds lost. My last qualification were doing two to the chest (standard defensive response) in 3 sconds or less. I will use every tool available to me to ensure that I win at all costs. There's no runner up in a gunfight. Just my .02 |
I've owned two....one was a Colt....don't like 'em. |
| Im always locked cocked and ready to rock. One in the pipe and then if needed two in the head to make sure theyre dead. Im sure its all a matter of preference, but Im all about being ready to bring the pain when I need to and a few interruptions arent what I want when I might have to drop someone. |
|
Carry however you are comfortable. If you feel condition one is safe, go for it. If you prefer 3, go for it. In most cases, condition 3 is all i can do. My city has an ordinance against laoded firearms. Legally i can carry concealed, but it must be unloaded. It's much easier to drop the mag than it is to drop the mag and rack the slide. Point being, if an LEO approaches, i plan to be carrying an unloaded firearm if searched. I predict this will turn into a nice pissing match. |
What a goofy way to live. No offense, but Wisconsin really needs to get its shit together. I always felt that most of those six hunters that were killed by that refugee with an SKS last year would be alive today if the hunters were legally armed with handguns. They are dead because they were following the law and not carrying concealed. I have friends that live in Wisconsin, and they tell me that the state has a labyrinth of goofy laws regarding firearms. You need to move to Nevada, Nam, the "Land of the Free." (until the Friggin' Mayor declares P. Diddy Day again!.) Be Safe. Joe |
Wisconsin has preemption. But no CCW. THere is no labyrinth of laws. Plain and simple: no locality can make firearm laws more strict than state law. Currently im stationed in ND. They have CCW, but no premption. I was a half hour away from the shooting when it occured. The outcome would have been different if it were my hunting party that was attacked. FWIW, i had an AKS with 2 30 rnd mags and a 1911 on my hip. |
I have spoken to several people that have said the same thing. That shooter would have been a grease spot if the hunters had been armed differently. Sad, very sad..... |
I guess i forgot to mention that i sometimes wear level IV armor. It makes great insulation in the cold. but when it gets warmer out, you'll sweat your ass off. |
Done! The wife and I head out of Wisconsin in the end of June and arrive in Reno in the first week of July. I can't wait to meet all of you! |
Level IV?? Why would you wear that unless its for work. Used to wear lvl IV and after 12 hours I was ready to throw them right out the window!! |
It's warm as shit. Not all that heavy. Makes for a good workout. And let's face it... in rifle country... there's alot of yahoo's out there. Also, i guess wearing it for 30 days striaght in the desert, including sleeping in it, makes 12 hours of hunting in it a walk in the park. 
|
Who said anything about hunting? Unless you call fulltime SWAT hunting. I can see the correlation in the two 12 hours isn't the longest, just trying to show an example. 
|
|
CONDITION ONE: Equals options and options equal high survival rate CONDITION TWO: Equals options and options equal high survival rate CONDITION THREE: Equals limited options (or no options) and low (or no) survival rate...... CONDITION FOUR: The gun is in the gun safe Which would you choose?..... Be Safe. Joe |