Posted: 1/25/2015 10:35:49 AM EDT
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Guess a vehicle went through the ice this morning on Lake Winnebago. Don't have all the details yet as it is still going on but I believe Oshkosh FD brought at least 2 of their rescue boats out to the lake and I have seen at least 2 ambulances head from the lake (probably to the hospital). With the weather we have had lately I wouldn't think of setting foot on the ice.
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I don't go on ice at all. My boat doesn't float so well when the water gets hard like that. Although, I suppose it floats better than these people's vehicles....  Bad joke in my opinion a kid lost his father and the kid is in critical condition. real classy there exx1976 |
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Bad joke .. This. Not cool. Not in HTF. I can't imagine watching my father die at 8yrs old. It's terrible and I'll pray for the family. Ice is risky even when there's 15 inches and shanty towns spring up. Winds and water currents can wear a spot thin. Thick ice can be fragile. That said, I haven't been out on the ice at all this year, because the weather has been yo-yo-ing around too much for my personal threshold. |
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In my younger days I used to do underwater search and recovery. Learned lots of valuable lessons from that, most importantly: 1) ice is never safe no matter how thick/cold it is. 2) many insurace policies are voided the second you drive offroad. Mine is... I asked. Owning a business that unlocks vehicles with keys inside, I often get calls from owners of vehicles on the ice, locked up, keys inside. It's the one place I refuse to go with my truck. Nor will I ride in someone else's vehicle, with my lockout tools, to get out there. For an extra $50 (double my normal rate) I'll load one of my snowmobiles on my trailer and drive to the lake access, and use the snowmobile. Otherwise, "let your fingers do the walking" in the yellow pages and call someone else (good luck). 
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Play Stupid Games, Win Stupid Prizes. I always feel sorry for the family and friends of people who die from terminal stupidity. This is worse seeing as he put another life in danger, too. What a waste. Stupid post is well...stupid. how many people successfully leave there mothers basement and go out into the real world to conduct lives and come back every day. Tragic accident definitely plenty of people that venture out on the ice and come home, maybe you nanny state live with mother mentality would rather have it illegal for people to go out on the ice, maybe same should be said for boats in the summer. |
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Stupid post is well...stupid. how many people successfully leave there mothers basement and go out into the real world to conduct lives and come back every day. Tragic accident definitely plenty of people that venture out on the ice and come home, maybe you nanny state live with mother mentality would rather have it illegal for people to go out on the ice, maybe same should be said for boats in the summer. Quoted:
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Play Stupid Games, Win Stupid Prizes. I always feel sorry for the family and friends of people who die from terminal stupidity. This is worse seeing as he put another life in danger, too. What a waste. Stupid post is well...stupid. how many people successfully leave there mothers basement and go out into the real world to conduct lives and come back every day. Tragic accident definitely plenty of people that venture out on the ice and come home, maybe you nanny state live with mother mentality would rather have it illegal for people to go out on the ice, maybe same should be said for boats in the summer. When it's known to be safe, yes. This year, the ice isn't safe for vehicles yet, maybe won't be all winter. Too much early snow right after a thin layer of ice had formed in mid November, has done a good job of insulating the ice and preventing it from getting as thick as you normally would see this time of year. Right now, the lake I fish on has only about 7" of ice. Last year at this time, it was at least 20"... or "normal" for late January. That's because it got cold earlier and snow came later last year. This year, the snow came same time as freeze-up, and a lot of it (30+" in november, a new record). 1st time in 25 years we couldn't access the normal deer hunting area because snow was knee deep. The rule of thumb around here is 8" is safe for snowmobiles & ATVs, 10" for shanties, 12" for light trucks or SUVs. I have yet to see a single vehicle (other than snowmobiles or 4-wheelers) on any lake in the northwoods yet this winter. And I drive past a dozen or more lakes every day that normally are shanty towns by now, that are barren. FWIW... there's a big pond hockey tournament held on Dollar Lake near Eagle River, 1st weekend of February every winter. This year, 1st time in it's history, it CANNOT be held on the lake because the ice hasn't been safe enough to plow the snow off to make hockey rinks (less than 7"). It's been moved to the Eagle River Snowmobile Derby track instead. 
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| There's plenty of lakes south of you with more than enough ice to have vehicles on them fisheree traffic and all, we haven't had snow cover problems so yeah, your situation does not apply for the whole state. There's always going to be bad areas no matter the weather. |
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There's plenty of lakes south of you with more than enough ice to have vehicles on them fisheree traffic and all, we haven't had snow cover problems so yeah, your situation does not apply for the whole state. There's always going to be bad areas no matter the weather. Probably true. Doesn't alter my point that it's not always safe to go out on the ice and leave mom's basement just because it's January in WI. You've got to know the lake you're going out on. Obviously Bago wasn't safe enough. |
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Probably true. Doesn't alter my point that it's not always safe to go out on the ice and leave mom's basement just because it's January in WI. You've got to know the lake you're going out on. Obviously Bago wasn't safe enough. Quoted:
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There's plenty of lakes south of you with more than enough ice to have vehicles on them fisheree traffic and all, we haven't had snow cover problems so yeah, your situation does not apply for the whole state. There's always going to be bad areas no matter the weather. Probably true. Doesn't alter my point that it's not always safe to go out on the ice and leave mom's basement just because it's January in WI. You've got to know the lake you're going out on. Obviously Bago wasn't safe enough. There's thousands of vehicles out on winnebago right now 1 goes in, it's unsafe now? 20 inches of ice out there cars still end up going through. |
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There's plenty of lakes south of you with more than enough ice to have vehicles on them fisheree traffic and all, we haven't had snow cover problems so yeah, your situation does not apply for the whole state. There's always going to be bad areas no matter the weather. I know that doesn't apply statewide. But apparently it applied to Winnebago, eh? If the ice was safe enough to hold his vehicle, he wouldn't have gone through. You can have 2 lakes a mile apart, that have greatly differing ice thickness. Current, springs, compass orientation with prevailing winds, allowing snow to blow off one lake and not the other. If you're going out on the ice, it's your own responsibility to make sure it's safe enough to support the weight of whatever you're bringing out there. If you're not sure, then don't go!!! Doesn't mean you have to hide in mom's basement in a paranoid fetal position in the corner. But it's just plain dumb to take unnecessary risks, and risk the lives of others in the process (I'm not just talking about his son, but any bystanders who'd try to help them, and the emergency personnel who respond). |
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There's thousands of vehicles out on winnebago right now 1 goes in, it's unsafe now? 20 inches of ice out there cars still end up going through. Quoted:
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There's plenty of lakes south of you with more than enough ice to have vehicles on them fisheree traffic and all, we haven't had snow cover problems so yeah, your situation does not apply for the whole state. There's always going to be bad areas no matter the weather. Probably true. Doesn't alter my point that it's not always safe to go out on the ice and leave mom's basement just because it's January in WI. You've got to know the lake you're going out on. Obviously Bago wasn't safe enough. There's thousands of vehicles out on winnebago right now 1 goes in, it's unsafe now? 20 inches of ice out there cars still end up going through. Then he went where he shouldn't have gone, because 20" of ice will hold a bulldozer, so that's not where he went through. He didn't "know" the lake, and paid the price. |
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Quoted: Then he went where he shouldn't have gone, because 20" of ice will hold a bulldozer, so that's not where he went through. He didn't "know" the lake, and paid the price. If the reporting is accurate, then the above is true. The vehicle was driving near and parallel to a 10" wide crack (3 mile long crack running east/west), approximately 200 yards south of the marked path. The ice was supposedly measured after the accident and it was 14" thick. It sounds like a case of a bad decision that unfortunately ended in two deaths. |
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Apparently he was also running along side a kniwn 10" 2.5 mile crack which apparently is a known no no.
that being said ill never fish bago or green bay because i know the ice is never safe!! I'll stick to shawano lake where i know if i stay Away from the known bad arwas ill be fine... |
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If you read what I wrote and extrapolated statist intent, then you are wrong. Rather than being an asshole about it, though, I will educate you instead.
There is a 100% probability that life will end in death. There are risks associated with "livin' life," things like going to work, visiting friends and family, and maybe even taking a vacation to see new and interesting things. There is risk associated with these behaviors, but it is widely (well, universally) considered acceptable risk due to the benefits (living a full and prosperous life, or "getting out of Mom's basement" as you put it). There are risks associated with other behaviors, things like riding in helicopters or getting into gunfights because bad people need to be made to stop doing bad things. Elevated risks, but also elevated benefit. Perhaps even working with especially dangerous materials, but with engineering controls and PPE that balance the risk and benefits. Then there are risks associated with recreational behaviors like skydiving, hunting, or even drug use. Sometimes these risks are acceptable to individuals and sometimes not. For instance, how many people don't hunt public land due to increased risk of catching an errant round? Lots. I also know of a few people that died skydiving and left behind wives and children. And for what? Selfishly chasing an adrenaline rush; probably unacceptably small benefit relative to the risks. Who here would consider using heroin to be acceptably risky? When an individual is performing an elevated risk activity and he is the only one potentially affected, that's fine. When you leave behind a lot of pain and suffering for a risky recreational activity (or just generally poor judgement), you're probably just an idiot or an asshole. When you get someone else killed for your risky recreational activity, well that might just be evil. Don't ask me to feel sorry for someone that does something like this, and don't try to claim the moral high ground here, because it isn't yours. A man got himself dead, and killed his son in the process, engaging in dangerous activity for a recreational purpose. The fact that he likely did not understand the level of risk is immaterial. I feel really sorry for his friends and his family because I've been there myself. It hurts, and it is hard to rationalize a death "for no good reason." It truly is tragic, and nothing I have said indicates I feel otherwise. And nothing I have EVER said indicates that I believe that prior restraint in the form of government intrusion should be leveraged to try and stop people from doing risky or stupid things to themselves and others. People should be held to account after the fact. I hope the family of the deceased find strength in each other and are able to move on with their lives. And I hope this has helped you understand what I wrote earlier, why it was morally justifiable, and why it was anything but "stupid." |
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Mine is... I asked. Owning a business that unlocks vehicles with keys inside, I often get calls from owners of vehicles on the ice, locked up, keys inside. It's the one place I refuse to go with my truck. Nor will I ride in someone else's vehicle, with my lockout tools, to get out there. For an extra $50 (double my normal rate) I'll load one of my snowmobiles on my trailer and drive to the lake access, and use the snowmobile. Otherwise, "let your fingers do the walking" in the yellow pages and call someone else (good luck).
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In my younger days I used to do underwater search and recovery. Learned lots of valuable lessons from that, most importantly: 1) ice is never safe no matter how thick/cold it is. 2) many insurace policies are voided the second you drive offroad. Mine is... I asked. Owning a business that unlocks vehicles with keys inside, I often get calls from owners of vehicles on the ice, locked up, keys inside. It's the one place I refuse to go with my truck. Nor will I ride in someone else's vehicle, with my lockout tools, to get out there. For an extra $50 (double my normal rate) I'll load one of my snowmobiles on my trailer and drive to the lake access, and use the snowmobile. Otherwise, "let your fingers do the walking" in the yellow pages and call someone else (good luck).
Many policies I've seen actually do provide coverage for offroad use and driving on the ice under comprehensive coverage. Some companies might have an exclusion for this, but I haven't seen it (never noticed/looked for it on commercial policies, either). Retrieving the vehicle is sometimes a separate matter, though. Racing is always excluded, FWIW. |
Seems like there's always a few of these in the state every winter. Some risks are riskier than others. Tragedy, but I'm glad the nanny state hasn't (yet) banned vehicles from the ice. People should be free to take their own actions, but must be responsible for their own consequences. Sad when it goes like this. Prayers for the families. 
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Seems like there's always a few of these in the state every winter. Some risks are riskier than others. Tragedy, but I'm glad the nanny state hasn't (yet) banned vehicles from the ice. People should be free to take their own actions, but must be responsible for their own consequences. Sad when it goes like this. Prayers for the families. Um had to break your bubble check out vehicle travel requirements for mendota in dane co not sure if its the whole county or just mendota |
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Quoted: Um had to break your bubble check out vehicle travel requirements for mendota in dane co not sure if its the whole county or just mendota Quoted: Quoted: Seems like there's always a few of these in the state every winter. Some risks are riskier than others. Tragedy, but I'm glad the nanny state hasn't (yet) banned vehicles from the ice. People should be free to take their own actions, but must be responsible for their own consequences. Sad when it goes like this. Prayers for the families. Um had to break your bubble check out vehicle travel requirements for mendota in dane co not sure if its the whole county or just mendota I think thats just the lakes in madison.
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