Posted: 9/26/2013 6:52:08 PM EDT
| Have a question about piping an air compressor and figured i would be better off asking here than in GD. I have a small 30 gal Rol-Air compressor in my basement im planning on running one line to my work bench and one out to the garage most of the plumbing will be done with pex. I will have an air reg at the bench and one out in the garage. As i understand it a water sep on the compressor outlet is worthless cause the air is to hot to condense. So i was looking at it tonight and the compressor is sitting about 3 feet away from my sump crock. I was thinking about running copper over to the sump crock then using a few loops of 1/2 soft copper in the bottom of the crock then back up to an air sep then on to the rest of the system would that work? or would i end up with to much water in the tubing that would never come out |
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Have a question about piping an air compressor and figured i would be better off asking here than in GD. I have a small 30 gal Rol-Air compressor in my basement im planning on running one line to my work bench and one out to the garage most of the plumbing will be done with pex. I will have an air reg at the bench and one out in the garage. As i understand it a water sep on the compressor outlet is worthless cause the air is to hot to condense. So i was looking at it tonight and the compressor is sitting about 3 feet away from my sump crock. I was thinking about running copper over to the sump crock then using a few loops of 1/2 soft copper in the bottom of the crock then back up to an air sep then on to the rest of the system would that work? or would i end up with to much water in the tubing that would never come out I worked in the compressor industry for better than 7 years. Not real long, but enough to know what works and what doesn't. 1. A recip compressor should not start and stop more than 8 times per hour. If it does you need to add more storage. frequent starts and stops beat the motor to death. This also creates high output air temperature. 2. If you compressor is running all the time you need more capacity (output) IE a bigger pump. 3. The quality of air drawn in will greatly effect the longevity of the pump and quality of the air put out at the discharge end. 4. As a general rule a recip comp will output approx. 3-4 cfm per hp @ 100psig. A rotary screw is 4-5 cfm per hp @ 100psig. 5. Keep your tank drained. Drain daily. Use and auto drain that is timer based. At the very least remove the stupid petcock valve at the bottom and put a quality ball valve in it's place. The petcock tend to clog and become useless. First I would ditch the PEX. PEX is made for water not compressed air. Also DO NOT use PVC or CPVC! Compressor oils and compressing and decompressing these will degrade these and cause them to become brittle and eventually they will become a grenade. A moisture trap and a filter at the output of the tank should be all you need for most common use like blowing off parts and medium volume air tools. If you are using more volume and the compressor is running very often then an air dryer is the best solution. Honestly the soft copper you are talking about will do next to nothing. Its the fins on a heat exchanger that dissipates the heat and not the tubing itself. If you can get your hands on a pressure rated heat exchanger be sure to put a drip leg in with a proper drain. A filter at each device will help keep moisture and dirt out. For piping from dirty to clean, Black Iron, galvanized, copper Type L (M is for water), Transair aluminum push lock. <------ Love this pipe! Push to connect, clean, no rust, flows more air than it's equivalent in any other pipe. But a little pricy. |
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I worked in the compressor industry for better than 7 years. Not real long, but enough to know what works and what doesn't. 1. A recip compressor should not start and stop more than 8 times per hour. If it does you need to add more storage. frequent starts and stops beat the motor to death. This also creates high output air temperature. 2. If you compressor is running all the time you need more capacity (output) IE a bigger pump. 3. The quality of air drawn in will greatly effect the longevity of the pump and quality of the air put out at the discharge end. 4. As a general rule a recip comp will output approx. 3-4 cfm per hp @ 100psig. A rotary screw is 4-5 cfm per hp @ 100psig. 5. Keep your tank drained. Drain daily. Use and auto drain that is timer based. At the very least remove the stupid petcock valve at the bottom and put a quality ball valve in it's place. The petcock tend to clog and become useless. First I would ditch the PEX. PEX is made for water not compressed air. Also DO NOT use PVC or CPVC! Compressor oils and compressing and decompressing these will degrade these and cause them to become brittle and eventually they will become a grenade. A moisture trap and a filter at the output of the tank should be all you need for most common use like blowing off parts and medium volume air tools. If you are using more volume and the compressor is running very often then an air dryer is the best solution. Honestly the soft copper you are talking about will do next to nothing. Its the fins on a heat exchanger that dissipates the heat and not the tubing itself. If you can get your hands on a pressure rated heat exchanger be sure to put a drip leg in with a proper drain. A filter at each device will help keep moisture and dirt out. For piping from dirty to clean, Black Iron, galvanized, copper Type L (M is for water), Transair aluminum push lock. <------ Love this pipe! Push to connect, clean, no rust, flows more air than it's equivalent in any other pipe. But a little pricy. Quoted:
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Have a question about piping an air compressor and figured i would be better off asking here than in GD. I have a small 30 gal Rol-Air compressor in my basement im planning on running one line to my work bench and one out to the garage most of the plumbing will be done with pex. I will have an air reg at the bench and one out in the garage. As i understand it a water sep on the compressor outlet is worthless cause the air is to hot to condense. So i was looking at it tonight and the compressor is sitting about 3 feet away from my sump crock. I was thinking about running copper over to the sump crock then using a few loops of 1/2 soft copper in the bottom of the crock then back up to an air sep then on to the rest of the system would that work? or would i end up with to much water in the tubing that would never come out I worked in the compressor industry for better than 7 years. Not real long, but enough to know what works and what doesn't. 1. A recip compressor should not start and stop more than 8 times per hour. If it does you need to add more storage. frequent starts and stops beat the motor to death. This also creates high output air temperature. 2. If you compressor is running all the time you need more capacity (output) IE a bigger pump. 3. The quality of air drawn in will greatly effect the longevity of the pump and quality of the air put out at the discharge end. 4. As a general rule a recip comp will output approx. 3-4 cfm per hp @ 100psig. A rotary screw is 4-5 cfm per hp @ 100psig. 5. Keep your tank drained. Drain daily. Use and auto drain that is timer based. At the very least remove the stupid petcock valve at the bottom and put a quality ball valve in it's place. The petcock tend to clog and become useless. First I would ditch the PEX. PEX is made for water not compressed air. Also DO NOT use PVC or CPVC! Compressor oils and compressing and decompressing these will degrade these and cause them to become brittle and eventually they will become a grenade. A moisture trap and a filter at the output of the tank should be all you need for most common use like blowing off parts and medium volume air tools. If you are using more volume and the compressor is running very often then an air dryer is the best solution. Honestly the soft copper you are talking about will do next to nothing. Its the fins on a heat exchanger that dissipates the heat and not the tubing itself. If you can get your hands on a pressure rated heat exchanger be sure to put a drip leg in with a proper drain. A filter at each device will help keep moisture and dirt out. For piping from dirty to clean, Black Iron, galvanized, copper Type L (M is for water), Transair aluminum push lock. <------ Love this pipe! Push to connect, clean, no rust, flows more air than it's equivalent in any other pipe. But a little pricy. I could run copper i just dont like using a torch that close to my rafters hah and i wanted to use up stuff i had on hand. Air use is mostly small air tools with a small soda blaster in my future for cleaning my suppressor. when i know the compressor will turn on on and off alot i turn on the bleed valve thingy so the pump doesnt shut off , i think thats what that valve is for the manual is from 1972 its not to descriptive. Did you work at rol air its in your town if so whats the pulsation chamber for should i add a auto drain on that too? |
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I could run copper i just dont like using a torch that close to my rafters hah and i wanted to use up stuff i had on hand. Air use is mostly small air tools with a small soda blaster in my future for cleaning my suppressor. when i know the compressor will turn on on and off alot i turn on the bleed valve thingy so the pump doesnt shut off , i think thats what that valve is for the manual is from 1972 its not to descriptive. Did you work at rol air its in your town if so whats the pulsation chamber for should i add a auto drain on that too? Quoted:
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Have a question about piping an air compressor and figured i would be better off asking here than in GD. I have a small 30 gal Rol-Air compressor in my basement im planning on running one line to my work bench and one out to the garage most of the plumbing will be done with pex. I will have an air reg at the bench and one out in the garage. As i understand it a water sep on the compressor outlet is worthless cause the air is to hot to condense. So i was looking at it tonight and the compressor is sitting about 3 feet away from my sump crock. I was thinking about running copper over to the sump crock then using a few loops of 1/2 soft copper in the bottom of the crock then back up to an air sep then on to the rest of the system would that work? or would i end up with to much water in the tubing that would never come out I worked in the compressor industry for better than 7 years. Not real long, but enough to know what works and what doesn't. 1. A recip compressor should not start and stop more than 8 times per hour. If it does you need to add more storage. frequent starts and stops beat the motor to death. This also creates high output air temperature. 2. If you compressor is running all the time you need more capacity (output) IE a bigger pump. 3. The quality of air drawn in will greatly effect the longevity of the pump and quality of the air put out at the discharge end. 4. As a general rule a recip comp will output approx. 3-4 cfm per hp @ 100psig. A rotary screw is 4-5 cfm per hp @ 100psig. 5. Keep your tank drained. Drain daily. Use and auto drain that is timer based. At the very least remove the stupid petcock valve at the bottom and put a quality ball valve in it's place. The petcock tend to clog and become useless. First I would ditch the PEX. PEX is made for water not compressed air. Also DO NOT use PVC or CPVC! Compressor oils and compressing and decompressing these will degrade these and cause them to become brittle and eventually they will become a grenade. A moisture trap and a filter at the output of the tank should be all you need for most common use like blowing off parts and medium volume air tools. If you are using more volume and the compressor is running very often then an air dryer is the best solution. Honestly the soft copper you are talking about will do next to nothing. Its the fins on a heat exchanger that dissipates the heat and not the tubing itself. If you can get your hands on a pressure rated heat exchanger be sure to put a drip leg in with a proper drain. A filter at each device will help keep moisture and dirt out. For piping from dirty to clean, Black Iron, galvanized, copper Type L (M is for water), Transair aluminum push lock. <------ Love this pipe! Push to connect, clean, no rust, flows more air than it's equivalent in any other pipe. But a little pricy. I could run copper i just dont like using a torch that close to my rafters hah and i wanted to use up stuff i had on hand. Air use is mostly small air tools with a small soda blaster in my future for cleaning my suppressor. when i know the compressor will turn on on and off alot i turn on the bleed valve thingy so the pump doesnt shut off , i think thats what that valve is for the manual is from 1972 its not to descriptive. Did you work at rol air its in your town if so whats the pulsation chamber for should i add a auto drain on that too? I worked for Cochrane Compressor which is now Zorn Compressor. I worked field service for about 6 months and them I was the Sr. install tech for the state. Is the pulsation chamber between the pump and the tank? If so it is there to help keep the noise down from pulsing air into the tank from the discharge. If it is between the low and high pressure stages, it is to reduce the hammer effect on intake valves on the high pressure cylinder. |
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There was a thread on this subject in GD a couple of weeks ago. Pretty much echoed what was said here.
I'll be running 1/2" or 3/4" copper when I finally get time to do the big basement remodel. I've got a sears 20gal, single stage compressor. And good thought about putting in a ball valve in place of the regular drain valve. Only downside is I may have to increase the leg height for the valve clearance, cause I can barely get my hand under the compressor to open the current screw valve to drain it, and I don't want to have to lift the damn thing on end to reach it. |
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There was a thread on this subject in GD a couple of weeks ago. Pretty much echoed what was said here. I'll be running 1/2" or 3/4" copper when I finally get time to do the big basement remodel. I've got a sears 20gal, single stage compressor. And good thought about putting in a ball valve in place of the regular drain valve. Only downside is I may have to increase the leg height for the valve clearance, cause I can barely get my hand under the compressor to open the current screw valve to drain it, and I don't want to have to lift the damn thing on end to reach it. you "should" be able to use a street 90 directly out of the tank with a couple of sections of 1/4" pipe and a couple with a ball valve. I also recommend putting a compression fitting on the ball valve and using a section of poly tubing to direct the drain water outside. The condensate from the tank will be all kinds of nasty rusty water and will stain concrete. Also NOTE DO NOT anchor any reciprocating compressor to the floor! Doing so will torque the feet of the tank and cause stresses on welds at the feet. This is one of the leading causes of pressure vessel failure. Vibration from the machine running causes over stressed welds to fracture. An 80 gallon tank @ 125psi has the equivalent strength of 6 sticks on dynamite should it explode. I have witnessed the aftermath and had to clean it up. I had waned this customer before about this. The tank was anchored to the floor, he never drained it, and there was already a crack in the tank. A week later it let loose. Blew the door off the compressor room and sent it sailing across the shop. Ripped the 125lb pump right off and threw it up on to the ceiling of an adjacent room. The motor was dangling from the seal tight. The ends of the tank ripped off and flattened the rest almost flat. He got really lucky and nobody was seriously hurt. Use anti vibration pads for the feet. The can be had at Fleet Farm for reasonably cheap. It will help keep the noise down. Also IF you can find a way to pipe the inlet to outside fresh air. Be sure to have a weather resistant filter. This will help keep the noise down from inlet pulsing and you will always have clean air coming into the cylinders. |
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LOL Not laughing at you. Just the solution. I guess if you can use 50 or a 100 feet it could work to a degree, but not very efficient. |
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I saw that in my searches too. Im going to get a condensor from a friend that's in refrigeration I like free better than blowing 60 bucks on soft copper Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
| I had considered taking a condenser from a vehicle and plumbing it in with a drop and enclosed with a fan. Probably also going to add an air reservoir from a big rig air brake system to up my air capacity.Just need to find the time to make a scrapyard run. Maybe i'll luck out and find some parts for the Power Wagons. |
| ok so im gonna go with copper. who makes decent air regulators and water seperators is graingers speedair brand any good? whats the difference between a general purpose filter and an Pneumatic Condensate Separator. looking between these two items. condensate seperator and air filter |
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ok so im gonna go with copper. who makes decent air regulators and water seperators is graingers speedair brand any good? whats the difference between a general purpose filter and an Pneumatic Condensate Separator. looking between these two items. condensate seperator and air filter The first one is a moisture trap with a float drain. It is basically comprised of a canister with a blast baffle in it. When air rushes in it hits the baffle and heavier moisture particles drop to the bottom of the canister and the lighter air is allowed to leave. These work reasonably well, depending on the volume of air you move. The second is a combo trap/filter. It has a porous ceramic filter element in it that will aid in oil/water removal and will filter particulates down to 5 microns. These should really be used in tandem for best results. Trap first then filter. I am talking with the guys I worked for about a couple of refer dryers they have in stock. They are used but are still a light industrial grade unit grade unit. The smallest they have right now is a 100 CFM and a 150 CFM both in 115volt. They would work well for you. I will check on price for you. ETA: I also see they have a heat exchanger in 115 volt as well that would be good if you cannot afford a refrigerated air dryer. |
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Please post that info here, or pm me as well. The OP gets first dibs, but I will be outfitting my shed with an air system in the next year and have been watching this thread and learning a lot. Thankyou!! Happy to help. If you need help with install I can lend a hand. I will keep you guys up to date. |
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Well you guys might not want to spend the kind of cash that these cost but here goes.
These are their prices not mine. I don't make a dime on any of this. I am just trying to help you guys out. All of the dryers have been inspected and serviced if needed. 2001 Pneumatech AD-100 refer air dryer 100CFM max is $1,185.00 +tax 2000 Pneumatech AD-150 refer air dryer 150CFM max is $1,485.00 +tax 2008 Zeks refer air dryer 150CFM max is $1,585.00 +tax The Thermal transfer heat exchanger with moisture trap is $500 +tax Sorry no pics of the Zeks. AD-100 
AD-150 
Thermal Transfer Heat Exchanger 
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Yeah that's a bit over my budget plus they are huge. Seems a little over kill for my application. I'm going to have two drops by my work bench and one line going out to the garage. One of the lines at the work bench will go to a 1/4 filter reg combo I had laying around will use that one for blowing stuff off and such. The other work bench drop will go to a 1/2 reg with the two filters above for a possible soda blaster in the future. The garage line will be used for small air tools like ratchet and what not. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Yeah that's a bit over my budget plus they are huge. Seems a little over kill for my application. I'm going to have two drops by my work bench and one line going out to the garage. One of the lines at the work bench will go to a 1/4 filter reg combo I had laying around will use that one for blowing stuff off and such. The other work bench drop will go to a 1/2 reg with the two filters above for a possible soda blaster in the future. The garage line will be used for small air tools like ratchet and what not. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I figured they would b e a bit to pricey. But I figured I would at least let you know. The other alternative for you would be a desiccant air dryer. They use products like silica gel. You can get a different cheaper alternative called activated alumina. It can be recharged in your oven. Large bags are not all that expensive. I think Grainger has some smaller capacity 25CFM desiccant dryers for like $200. You might want to look into that. |
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Wow, yeah, I'm on the 'overkill for my application band wagon' there. Cool pieces though. If I had a paint booth or something similar, those would be awesome.
Does one really need an actual dryer over just the drip can thing you described above? I understand if you are painting, even on a small scale, dry air is a must, but just for air tools etc, isn't the baffled thing, a regulator, and maybe drip legs by the drops going to be good for most everything? |
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Wow, yeah, I'm on the 'overkill for my application band wagon' there. Cool pieces though. If I had a paint booth or something similar, those would be awesome. Does one really need an actual dryer over just the drip can thing you described above? I understand if you are painting, even on a small scale, dry air is a must, but just for air tools etc, isn't the baffled thing, a regulator, and maybe drip legs by the drops going to be good for most everything? What you descrbed would be fine for the average guy. |