[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Things just got strange ... (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 9/21/2013 5:39:13 AM EDT
|
http://www.wbay.com/story/23487704/2013/09/20/to-oppose-open-carry-of-firearms-group-plans-to-carry-live-chickens That's not what I expected when I heard there was going to be a protest. I don't even know how to respond to that. |
|
Quoted:
Link.. That's not what I expected when I heard there was going to be a protest. I don't even know how to respond to that. Made it hot for the masses. Edit.. Trying this again.. |
|
Quoted:
To the majority of the people these idiots carrying chickens are more sane than the idiots that were carrying the AR's! each time you post I think there is no way you can top the level stupidity of this post and you always seems to surprise me within the next post or two, I have got to learn to have more faith in you.. |
|
Quoted:
each time you post I think there is no way you can top the level stupidity of this post and you always seems to surprise me with in the next post or two, I have got to learn to have more faith in you.. Quoted:
Quoted:
To the majority of the people these idiots carrying chickens are more sane than the idiots that were carrying the AR's! each time you post I think there is no way you can top the level stupidity of this post and you always seems to surprise me with in the next post or two, I have got to learn to have more faith in you.. Sad but true, reelman's statement seems to be the case. Tis the society we live with.....it's all getting sideways at this point. |
|
Quoted:
each time you post I think there is no way you can top the level stupidity of this post and you always seems to surprise me within the next post or two, I have got to learn to have more faith in you.. Quoted:
Quoted:
To the majority of the people these idiots carrying chickens are more sane than the idiots that were carrying the AR's! each time you post I think there is no way you can top the level stupidity of this post and you always seems to surprise me within the next post or two, I have got to learn to have more faith in you.. Ignore the truth if you want but what I said is the truth. I've said it before and I stick by it that these two idiots did way more to hurt gun owners than they did to support our rights. I've asked why they were carrying AR's in public several times and all I get is the BS of "it's their right" It may be their right but it certainly was a stupid thing to do. The only people I've seen or heard of supporting them are a couple guys on this site. |
|
Quoted:
Ignore the truth if you want but what I said is the truth. I've said it before and I stick by it that these two idiots did way more to hurt gun owners than they did to support our rights. I've asked why they were carrying AR's in public several times and all I get is the BS of "it's their right" It may be their right but it certainly was a stupid thing to do. The only people I've seen or heard of supporting them are a couple guys on this site. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
To the majority of the people these idiots carrying chickens are more sane than the idiots that were carrying the AR's! each time you post I think there is no way you can top the level stupidity of this post and you always seems to surprise me within the next post or two, I have got to learn to have more faith in you.. Ignore the truth if you want but what I said is the truth. I've said it before and I stick by it that these two idiots did way more to hurt gun owners than they did to support our rights. I've asked why they were carrying AR's in public several times and all I get is the BS of "it's their right" It may be their right but it certainly was a stupid thing to do. The only people I've seen or heard of supporting them are a couple guys on this site. Your "truth" is something you cannot even prove. I am betting you do more damage to our rights than what you claim these two have done. Frankly I don't think I have heard anything BUT asinine comments from you on this site. If you really want to know why they did it, you should ask them. Now our rights are BS? As for the last sentence. It says more about you and the people you hang out with, than it does about anyone here. Occam's Razor, looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, acts like a duck....It's probably a duck. 
Do us a favor, don't "help". You do more harm than good. |
|
Quoted:
Ignore the truth if you want but what I said is the truth. I've said it before and I stick by it that these two idiots did way more to hurt gun owners than they did to support our rights. I've asked why they were carrying AR's in public several times and all I get is the BS of "it's their right" It may be their right but it certainly was a stupid thing to do. The only people I've seen or heard of supporting them are a couple guys on this site. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
To the majority of the people these idiots carrying chickens are more sane than the idiots that were carrying the AR's! each time you post I think there is no way you can top the level stupidity of this post and you always seems to surprise me within the next post or two, I have got to learn to have more faith in you.. Ignore the truth if you want but what I said is the truth. I've said it before and I stick by it that these two idiots did way more to hurt gun owners than they did to support our rights. I've asked why they were carrying AR's in public several times and all I get is the BS of "it's their right" It may be their right but it certainly was a stupid thing to do. The only people I've seen or heard of supporting them are a couple guys on this site. Did more harm than good= Opinion Stupid thing to do= Opinion It was their right= Fact |
| Show me where all the supports of these guys are? 4 or 5 guys on here, and about the same number who think they did the wrong thing, think they were great for looking like idiots to try to prove a point although what point they were trying to make has not been determined yet. Yes I know it was their right but it's my right to run down the street naked but what's the point? |
|
Did more harm than good= Opinion If you thknk this has helped gun rights you're not thinking very clearly
Stupid thing to do= Opinion Yep my opinion along with probably 95% (or more) of the population It was their right= Fact Yep it was their right but it certainly doesn't make it the right thing to do, and in fact it could very well lead to more of our rights being taken away because people like this don't know how to use their rights responsibly. |
|
Quoted:
Did more harm than good= Opinion Stupid thing to do= Opinion It was their right= Fact Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
To the majority of the people these idiots carrying chickens are more sane than the idiots that were carrying the AR's! each time you post I think there is no way you can top the level stupidity of this post and you always seems to surprise me within the next post or two, I have got to learn to have more faith in you.. Ignore the truth if you want but what I said is the truth. I've said it before and I stick by it that these two idiots did way more to hurt gun owners than they did to support our rights. I've asked why they were carrying AR's in public several times and all I get is the BS of "it's their right" It may be their right but it certainly was a stupid thing to do. The only people I've seen or heard of supporting them are a couple guys on this site. Did more harm than good= Opinion Stupid thing to do= Opinion It was their right= Fact Did more harm then good= verdict still out stupid thing to do= well lets not say stupid. But maybe alittle unreasonable it was there right=this is fact. But when you were a kid weren't your parents always saying that just because you can do something doesn't mean you should? |
|
Quoted:
Did more harm than good= Opinion If you thknk this has helped gun rights you're not thinking very clearly Stupid thing to do= Opinion Yep my opinion along with probably 95% (or more) of the population It was their right= Fact Yep it was their right but it certainly doesn't make it the right thing to do, and in fact it could very well lead to more of our rights being taken away because people like this don't know how to use their rights responsibly. Still no proof. |
|
How do you propose to get people to not engage in a lawful activity? Really, what course of action do you take short of advocating for a legal restriction on open carry?
I see us 5% need to get to work convincing you other 95% not to have irrational fears over inanimate objects. |
|
Quoted:
Still no proof. Quoted:
Quoted:
Did more harm than good= Opinion If you thknk this has helped gun rights you're not thinking very clearly Stupid thing to do= Opinion Yep my opinion along with probably 95% (or more) of the population It was their right= Fact Yep it was their right but it certainly doesn't make it the right thing to do, and in fact it could very well lead to more of our rights being taken away because people like this don't know how to use their rights responsibly. Still no proof. well prove that you are right. |
|
Quoted:
How do you propose to get people to not engage in a lawful activity? Really, what course of action do you take short of advocating for a legal restriction on open carry? I see us 5% need to get to work convincing you other 95% not to have irrational fears over inanimate objects. I'm all for open carry and do it on rare occurances as I prefer to carry concealed as some people get nervous when they see a gun and I chose to respect that. Plus if something bad does happen I don't want to be singled out as the first guy for the bad guy to shoot because he knows I'm carrying. I never said it wasn't their right to do so but why would anyone chose to OC an AR in public? If they, or any of you, think that OCing a rifle will ever become common place you're fooling yourself. |
|
Should we forget that the Urinal Sentinel quoted someone here on this site..... I think that did more damage than the two who open carried their long guns.
And open carrying a long gun for a very long time was common place. We are technologically more advanced in this century than we used to be, and the population is way higher..... but I am damn sure that things ain't anymore civil than they used to be. |
|
Watch, they are going to accidentally cause the city council to legalize owning chickens. (BTW, that wasn't illegal in the 70's, it was put in later as a RACIST measure against the Hmong population that brought some of the cultural habits from their homeland.) State preemption prohibits any municipality from making stricter laws aside from discharging a firearm. They are powerless to "make it illegal". The only thing they could do is wall off the entire market, charge an entrance fee, and then post it.
|
| I can't believe this discussion is still going on. The idea of openly carrying ARs in a crowded marketplace is ludicrous, and I agree with reelman, it would be opposed by 95%+ of the voting public. It isn't a matter of rights, it's a matter of common sense. Just because you CAN do something does that mean you should? And if you think this half baked idea was a good one, can you think of any open carry situations that would be legal but maybe not a good idea? No? Do you have children? Do you teach them that because they can do something they should go ahead and do it? If the last 224 years has taught us anything about gun rights it's that the 2nd Amendment's interpretation has varied widely over time. If we don't use and promote our rights responsibly, they will be gone. Foolish behavior that is perceived as endangering the public is a step firmly in that direction. |
 Needs more Bruce Willis though -- add an mf'er at the end. |
|
Yes 
|
|
Quoted:
well prove that you are right. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Did more harm than good= Opinion If you thknk this has helped gun rights you're not thinking very clearly Stupid thing to do= Opinion Yep my opinion along with probably 95% (or more) of the population It was their right= Fact Yep it was their right but it certainly doesn't make it the right thing to do, and in fact it could very well lead to more of our rights being taken away because people like this don't know how to use their rights responsibly. Still no proof. well prove that you are right. I cannot, and that is my point. He cannot either, but I am not trying to pass my info as fact or "truth". Quoted:
Ignore the truth if you want but what I said is the truth. I've said it before and I stick by it that these two idiots did way more to hurt gun owners than they did to support our rights. I've asked why they were carrying AR's in public several times and all I get is the BS of "it's their right" It may be their right but it certainly was a stupid thing to do. The only people I've seen or heard of supporting them are a couple guys on this site. Quoted:
Did more harm than good= Opinion If you thknk this has helped gun rights you're not thinking very clearly Stupid thing to do= Opinion Yep my opinion along with probably 95% (or more) of the population It was their right= Fact Yep it was their right but it certainly doesn't make it the right thing to do, and in fact it could very well lead to more of our rights being taken away because people like this don't know how to use their rights responsibly. |
| I also live in the Fox Valley, have been here 30 years and deal with the public daily, and not just in the local gun store. This is not going to go well for gun rights. Not a fact, just a prediction. I hope those who thought these stunts are a good idea can sharpen their quills and put together some persuasive letters to the editor for the local press and public that aren't on AR15.com. |
|
Quoted:
I would fight and die to protect their chicken-rights.  Quoted:
Quoted:
These are your fellow countrymen. Makes you feel good doesn't it? I would fight and die to protect their chicken-rights. Hell I'm sure you would, but it doesn't make them any less of a group of dumbasses
|
|
Quoted:
Show me where all the supports of these guys are? It's not a popularity contest, Mr.Fudd. It wasn't a popularity contest when we fought the AWB, and it wasn't a popularity contest when we fought for OC and CCW. All along their were plenty of hand wringing NRA Fudds deriding the real gun rights people as dangerous Timothy McVeigh types. They were convinced that their blued steel and walnut circle jerk was a majority, and they were willing to throw us under the bus in a heartbeat. Now the landslide majority of them own AR15s, have CCW permits, display Gasden flags, and firmly believe themselves to be conquering heroes. But we still see them as the arrogant, waffling, negotiating, opportunist pricks that they are. You and your Yes-men can cower while gun rights people pave the way for your future bloviation. What those gentlemen were doing is putting their arses on the line to set a precedent; both legally, and in the public's mind. Departments will be forced to develop a protocol that at least considers the possibility that strolling about with a slung long arm is not a threat, or they will be sued into crafting that policy. The public will have to eat a hefty dose of, "I don't care what objections you have, rights are rights; even if your panties are wadded." All of the policies and little precedents being set builds static inertia against gun restrictions. Hard to pretend that guns are forbidden, scary, and illegal when folks are buying raw honey and tomatoes at the market with light arms on their back. Quite simply, this cements the left's defeat on the gun issue. There is always risk when driving home the final blow, and risk-adverse Fudds will never have the stones to face that down. |
|
Quoted:
It's not a popularity contest, Mr.Fudd. It wasn't a popularity contest when we fought the AWB, and it wasn't a popularity contest when we fought for OC and CCW. All along their were plenty of hand wringing NRA Fudds deriding the real gun rights people as dangerous Timothy McVeigh types. They were convinced that their blued steel and walnut circle jerk was a majority, and they were willing to throw us under the bus in a heartbeat. Now the landslide majority of them own AR15s, have CCW permits, display Gasden flags, and firmly believe themselves to be conquering heroes. But we still see them as the arrogant, waffling, negotiating, opportunist pricks that they are. You and your Yes-men can cower while gun rights people pave the way for your future bloviation. What those gentlemen were doing is putting their arses on the line to set a precedent; both legally, and in the public's mind. Departments will be forced to develop a protocol that at least considers the possibility that strolling about with a slung long arm is not a threat, or they will be sued into crafting that policy. The public will have to eat a hefty dose of, "I don't care what objections you have, rights are rights; even if your panties are wadded." All of the policies and little precedents being set builds static inertia against gun restrictions. Hard to pretend that guns are forbidden, scary, and illegal when folks are buying raw honey and tomatoes at the market with light arms on their back. Quite simply, this cements the left's defeat on the gun issue. There is always risk when driving home the final blow, and risk-adverse Fudds will never have the stones to face that down. Quoted:
Quoted:
Show me where all the supports of these guys are? It's not a popularity contest, Mr.Fudd. It wasn't a popularity contest when we fought the AWB, and it wasn't a popularity contest when we fought for OC and CCW. All along their were plenty of hand wringing NRA Fudds deriding the real gun rights people as dangerous Timothy McVeigh types. They were convinced that their blued steel and walnut circle jerk was a majority, and they were willing to throw us under the bus in a heartbeat. Now the landslide majority of them own AR15s, have CCW permits, display Gasden flags, and firmly believe themselves to be conquering heroes. But we still see them as the arrogant, waffling, negotiating, opportunist pricks that they are. You and your Yes-men can cower while gun rights people pave the way for your future bloviation. What those gentlemen were doing is putting their arses on the line to set a precedent; both legally, and in the public's mind. Departments will be forced to develop a protocol that at least considers the possibility that strolling about with a slung long arm is not a threat, or they will be sued into crafting that policy. The public will have to eat a hefty dose of, "I don't care what objections you have, rights are rights; even if your panties are wadded." All of the policies and little precedents being set builds static inertia against gun restrictions. Hard to pretend that guns are forbidden, scary, and illegal when folks are buying raw honey and tomatoes at the market with light arms on their back. Quite simply, this cements the left's defeat on the gun issue. There is always risk when driving home the final blow, and risk-adverse Fudds will never have the stones to face that down. Could not have said it better myself! |
|
Quoted:
Could not have said it better myself! Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Show me where all the supports of these guys are? It's not a popularity contest, Mr.Fudd. It wasn't a popularity contest when we fought the AWB, and it wasn't a popularity contest when we fought for OC and CCW. All along their were plenty of hand wringing NRA Fudds deriding the real gun rights people as dangerous Timothy McVeigh types. They were convinced that their blued steel and walnut circle jerk was a majority, and they were willing to throw us under the bus in a heartbeat. Now the landslide majority of them own AR15s, have CCW permits, display Gasden flags, and firmly believe themselves to be conquering heroes. But we still see them as the arrogant, waffling, negotiating, opportunist pricks that they are. You and your Yes-men can cower while gun rights people pave the way for your future bloviation. What those gentlemen were doing is putting their arses on the line to set a precedent; both legally, and in the public's mind. Departments will be forced to develop a protocol that at least considers the possibility that strolling about with a slung long arm is not a threat, or they will be sued into crafting that policy. The public will have to eat a hefty dose of, "I don't care what objections you have, rights are rights; even if your panties are wadded." All of the policies and little precedents being set builds static inertia against gun restrictions. Hard to pretend that guns are forbidden, scary, and illegal when folks are buying raw honey and tomatoes at the market with light arms on their back. Quite simply, this cements the left's defeat on the gun issue. There is always risk when driving home the final blow, and risk-adverse Fudds will never have the stones to face that down. Could not have said it better myself! Agreed. Well said sir. |
|
Quoted:
Yeah I just gotta buck up and wander around the U-6 soccer fields with my RPD and 100 round belts dangling. The parents, kiddies and police will just have to recognize my rights get over their irrational fear of guns! Well at least you have removed any doubt to which side you are on. Thanks you for that. It is just that. |
|
Quoted: I can't believe this discussion is still going on. The idea of openly carrying ARs in a crowded marketplace is ludicrous, and I agree with reelman, it would be opposed by 95%+ of the voting public. It isn't a matter of rights, it's a matter of common sense. Just because you CAN do something does that mean you should? And if you think this half baked idea was a good one, can you think of any open carry situations that would be legal but maybe not a good idea? No? Do you have children? Do you teach them that because they can do something they should go ahead and do it? If the last 224 years has taught us anything about gun rights it's that the 2nd Amendment's interpretation has varied widely over time. If we don't use and promote our rights responsibly, they will be gone. Foolish behavior that is perceived as endangering the public is a step firmly in that direction. |
|
One thing is irrefutable:
Reelman has shown greater intellectual maturity and integrity than many of the people arguing with him. Some of you have criticized his tone, sniped at his character and even groveled in name-calling, while Reelman sticks mainly to refuting his point. |
|
Quoted:
One thing is irrefutable: Reelman has shown greater intellectual maturity and integrity than many of the people arguing with him. Some of you have criticized his tone, sniped at his character and even groveled in name-calling, while Reelman sticks mainly to refuting his point. He has contributed nothing other than emotions. Emotions are not a valid argument in a rational society. |
|
I assure you I am not a troll account. I am a real person who happens to live in the community in question. I have provided rational arguments against the open carry of long arms in a farmers' market and have read nothing on this site opposing me that would be convincing to anyone who who doesn't see everything through a gun rights lens. I do agree that the issue is emotional and I disagree that emotions are unimportant. In this case, "fear" is the emotion. When you see somebody doing something really out of place, inappropriate, potentially a risk to those around you, what do you do? Assume your wife and children are with you, having a nice time together. Do you vacate the area? Place our hand on your CCW, or open carry to be ready? Verbally engage the person who is acting irrationally to see if he is a danger or not, hoping his finger doesn't venture near the trigger? Just because he looks and dresses like you does that mean he's safe? What if he doesn't look like you? What if he tells you he's doing this because the voices commanded him to? Just because he's psychotic doesn't mean he can't legally be there doing what he's doing. So yes, emotions are important. Beyond "mere emotions" there are many "rational" considerations:
1. Security. An open long gun that is readily available to the carrier is also readily available to anyone else, almost immediately. Especially in a crowd milling about. 2. No limits on carry? Belt fed? Full auto? Saiga 12's, street sweepers, etc, Why not? Near playgrounds? 50 BMG outside an airport? Please provide a response other than we need open carry ARs in a farmer's market "because it's our right!" because that is exactly the argument the anti's are going to use to take this right away. |
|
Quoted:
He has contributed nothing other than emotions. Emotions are not a valid argument in a rational society. Quoted:
Quoted:
One thing is irrefutable: Reelman has shown greater intellectual maturity and integrity than many of the people arguing with him. Some of you have criticized his tone, sniped at his character and even groveled in name-calling, while Reelman sticks mainly to refuting his point. He has contributed nothing other than emotions. Emotions are not a valid argument in a rational society. From the time of antiquity forward we have never lived in a rational society. It's the reason we can't buy a car on Sunday in this state, the reason auto and gravity knives are illegal. I have no problem with them walking around with rifles, some people obviously did. It can warrant a civil discussion, no? |
|
Quoted:
I have no problem with them walking around with rifles, some people obviously did. It can warrant a civil discussion, no? I have no problem with open carrying rifles, nor do I have a problem with a civil discussion. And indeed, we are far from a rational society. That does not mean we should condone irrationality, irrational fears, nor should we allow emotions to take the place of common sense and reasoning. People fear the unknown. The more they are exposed, the more they will become numb to it, educated about it, and no longer fear it. I have no problem answering logical questions to those that honestly want to learn more. I have converted several folks to firearm friendly. I have no problem with questions, but I do have issue with folks immediately hitting the panic button and defecating upon sight of a firearm. Even more troublesome, are the LEO's that entertain these irrational people. Certainly, send a squadcar, check things out. Fine. I have no problem with that. I have issue with going 80 in a 25, simply because someone is lawfully carrying a firearm. I have problems with holding someone at gunpoint when they are not comitting a crime. I have a problem with cuffing people and detaining them for no reason whatsoever. Openly carrying a firearm is not reasonable suspicion that a crime is being comitted. Stop treating it like it is. |
|
I have no fears of any firearms. It's some of the people that wield them.
If someone walks through a busy marketplace in a scuba suit and a set of golf clubs slung over his shoulder I take little notice of his irrationality. It's harmless. If someone is openly carrying a long arm through that same marketplace, or a playground, or similar non-threatening environment, that someone is acting irrationally with a dangerous weapon. I say it's irrational because there is no logical purpose to the open carry in this situation. Is it a fashion statement? Is it a gun rights statement? Does the guy feel threatened? Is the guy nuts? The answer to this question is not immediately ascertainable to an observer. At the very least, an observer is placed in Condition Orange. Even an inadvertent move (re-adjusting the gun for comfort,removing the gun to show someone something on it) by the long gun carrier could place onlookers into Condition Red and the carrier could find himself with dancing red lights on his torso. I am hoping this will not occur, but what I have outlined is a rational response to an irrational act. The people who are doing this are placing themselves at some risk. Please practice open carry safely and with discretion and common sense. |