Posted: 8/14/2013 4:24:10 PM EDT
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I am sure some one here has some first hand experience with the various sorts of body armor/trauma plates. I am considering purchasing some to not only have for home defensive if needed but I think I will feel a little safer when I finally get the chance to take some classes/training. So, what are some first hand opinions?
I did look at some AR500 plates with LINE-X coating. Even with the additional coating I have concerns about fragmentation if I ever have to rely on the plates. For that reason, as well as blunt force trauma/energy transfer, I am leaning towards ceramic/dyneema. |
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I think the whole armor steel vs. ceramic/aramid plates debate boils down to this.
If you want armor for micro-SHTF, classes, range safety, a regional disaster where the rest of America "functions" more or less, AND you can afford the coin, I'd go with the ceramics with aramid fiber spall lining. They'll usually be a pound or two lighter than AR500 steel, and that goes into the whole "on your feet, ounces become pounds, pounds becomes pain" etc. The downside is that the plates can be compromised after even one hit. However, that's no problem if you're able to replace them, and as they say, "If plan A is to take multiple rounds, you seriously need a plan B..." If you want to cover your bases for full blown SHTF where you may never be able to replace the plates, (or even just a long grinding economic depression) and you may have a need to take multiple hits, maybe not all at once, but perhaps weeks months, or years apart and still be able to have some confidence in the plates, or you don't have that much disposable income, and you perhaps have more of a "bug in" mentality than a "bug out" one, and the extra few pounds of weight won't be such a liability, then steel may be the way to go. The plates with the Kevlar/bedliner have shown to have excellent spall protection even with multiple hits. And there's at least the possibility of it being "user serviceable" too. I guess you find a can of Line- or Rhino in the bombed out remains of an auto-parts store and pour a little in the holes and let it cure over your refugee campfire... 
Some people get quite angry at the idea of AR500 steel plates, because only "real operators" wear the ceramics, but both have their uses and their place IMO. As to energy transfer, I don't think it's that big of an issue with either style of plate. The extra weight/mass of the steel seems like it would compensate for the soft Dyneema/Kevlar spall liner of the ceramic, and since there SHOULD be NO significant backface deformation with either type of plate and a hit from any rifle round the plate is capable of stopping really ought not hurt more than the recoil of firing it from a medium/lightweight bolt-action rifle. If I had the money for the ideal solution, I think I'd go with the ceramics for first-line duty, AND get some coated AR500 plates as backup for a long-term solution. For me personally being a bit more realistic with my cash, I'd be happy with some coated AR500 plates. They took a TON of abuse and repeated same-spot hits in the DIY testing threads here on Arfcom. |
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Ceramics may provide better initial protection, but all will fail after as few as half a dozen rounds, whereas AR500 or AR550 plate will take a considerably higher round count before failure. Ceramics also must be stored properly and protected from sharp impacts or drops to prevent cracks in the plate. Their main advantage is lighter weight.
AR500 or AR550 plate is much cheaper and more multi-hit capable. Spall is the major concern and the lined AR500 plate is an acceptable budget solution. For OP's uses I don't think I could justify $400 on Ceramic plates when I could get lined AR500 plates for $150. |
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I have a pair of level 4 stand alones in a plate carrier setup that I use for work when needed.
They were a lot more than the ar500 plates; if you want the plates just in case, look at the lined ar500. Most officers I know have gone with the lined ar500. You'll have to weigh the cost vs benefit for your budgetary situation. :-) If you are looking at level iv plates, check out the target man; $359.99 shipped for the pair. |
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Great info./discussion! Thank You to all who chimed in! I am still leaning toward ceramics. I would prefer to get away with the AR500 plates but I guess the spall risk is not worth it to me. It will stop a round but what good is that if you have fragments in your extremities/jaw.
My son and I have been fortunate enough to do a fair amount of racing and one statment I live by with the racing hobby is to buy the best safety equipment I can afford. One day I watched my son "test" his equipment and because of me living by those words his life was saved and actually walked away from the incident. Maybe this is one of those times that I listen to those words again. |
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Quoted:
Great info./discussion! Thank You to all who chimed in! I am still leaning toward ceramics. I would prefer to get away with the AR500 plates but I guess the spall risk is not worth it to me. It will stop a round but what good is that if you have fragments in your extremities/jaw. My son and I have been fortunate enough to do a fair amount of racing and one statment I live by with the racing hobby is to buy the best safety equipment I can afford. One day I watched my son "test" his equipment and because of me living by those words his life was saved and actually walked away from the incident. Maybe this is one of those times that I listen to those words again. Buy once, cry once
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Quoted:
Buy once, cry once Quoted:
Quoted:
Great info./discussion! Thank You to all who chimed in! I am still leaning toward ceramics. I would prefer to get away with the AR500 plates but I guess the spall risk is not worth it to me. It will stop a round but what good is that if you have fragments in your extremities/jaw. My son and I have been fortunate enough to do a fair amount of racing and one statment I live by with the racing hobby is to buy the best safety equipment I can afford. One day I watched my son "test" his equipment and because of me living by those words his life was saved and actually walked away from the incident. Maybe this is one of those times that I listen to those words again. Buy once, cry once I am stealing this and using it with some of my customers. Thx! |
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Ceramics can be compromised by rough handling/drops. The spalling issue with AR500 is solved by the coatings: http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u191/jeremy_and_natasha/Fullplate_zps1b649420.jpg http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u191/jeremy_and_natasha/peeledcoating_zpsc956ced8.jpg The composite plates with ceramic inserts are supposed to be the best of both worlds; durable and AP capable. how does the rhino liner hold up to bumps and drops? who has the best price on AR500 that fits in plate carriers? how long does rhino liner last when sealed in a can? you know... to touch up a plate if it is shot when things can no longer be purchased online |
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The rhino lined plates should take anything you can dish out. Remember they'll be in a carrier too.
The Target Man is in the industry forums and sells the plates and custom carriers to fit them. He does have an arfcom discount, check our his forum. I think rhino liner is a 2 part mixture, not sold in a can, but I've never looked into it. |
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What mfg. did you have problems with and what exactly were the problems? Quoted:
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I had issues with polymer and ceramic plates not being as durable as steel. I think if the plates are unable to work when you need them is the real critical issue. V OUT What mfg. did you have problems with and what exactly were the problems? Numerous, so much that I categorize them as such. The polymer tend to "shift" (the laminate breaks apart rendering them useless). The ceramic cracks like carabiners, making them useless. The real issue is the care. I don't plan on caring for my items in foam line containers, so steel it is. I also like to think the AF went to steel because of me being a pain in the ass with the Os at the hospital (x-raying hundred of plates all the time). V OUT |
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how does the rhino liner hold up to bumps and drops? who has the best price on AR500 that fits in plate carriers? how long does rhino liner last when sealed in a can? you know... to touch up a plate if it is shot when things can no longer be purchased online Quoted:
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Ceramics can be compromised by rough handling/drops. The spalling issue with AR500 is solved by the coatings: http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u191/jeremy_and_natasha/Fullplate_zps1b649420.jpg http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u191/jeremy_and_natasha/peeledcoating_zpsc956ced8.jpg The composite plates with ceramic inserts are supposed to be the best of both worlds; durable and AP capable. how does the rhino liner hold up to bumps and drops? who has the best price on AR500 that fits in plate carriers? how long does rhino liner last when sealed in a can? you know... to touch up a plate if it is shot when things can no longer be purchased online The overcoat liners only capture perpendicular strike trash. Also, they hopefully prevent rust (degradation) but you really can't tell because it is covered (rust could form underneath). The real concern is oblique strikes (ricochets). This is because warfare is an austere environment whereas the shooter is usually not static nor are the targets. Because of this barrel angles, trajectories and beaten zones are usually NOT perpendicular. The only way we were able to effectively combat it is with Kevlar wrapped plates (we cut up vests and wrapped some kevlar over the top edge of the plate). This will "catch" the ricochet. Not absolute, but will stop most decelerated deformed rounds. The key is to stop the trash and/or round from skipping up into your throat. Even tiny copper jackets can cut your jugular. Not probable, but possible. I guess because I dealt with it first hand and was overprotective of my troops, it was a huge issue with me. PPE is an addiction with me because of it. V OUT |
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check these guys out good prices
http://infidelbodyarmor.com/ |
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Quoted:
The rhino lined plates should take anything you can dish out. Remember they'll be in a carrier too. The Target Man is in the industry forums and sells the plates and custom carriers to fit them. He does have an arfcom discount, check our his forum. I think rhino liner is a 2 part mixture, not sold in a can, but I've never looked into it. http://www.ar15.com/forums/f_2/541_The_Target_Man__AR500_Steel_Targets_andamp__Armor.html |