Posted: 7/10/2011 12:17:45 PM EDT
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Sorry if this has been talked about before, but I just wanted to make people aware if they already weren't.
I stopped in to the Gander today on the North side of Madison to look at some pistols for possible CCW, and I walked into their new "Academy". All I have to say is "Holy S*&T" it is pretty damn cool. 180 degree and 300 degree live-action simulators with multiple scenarios. 30ft range that allows rifles and shotguns. Virtual shooting range. For the virtual range and simulators, they use real Glock 22's and Beretta's outfitted with basically laser bore sights and CO2 operating the recoil. The C02 cartridges are built into aluminum magazines that allow for mag drops and reload practice. They will be adding AR-15's and 870's as well. Videos of you in the simulator can be emailed to you, as well as the virtual targets in the shooting range. All I have to say is if you are in the area, you should definitely check it out. Prices are pretty reasonable to (at least I thought). $25 /hr incl. targets in live range, $35 /half hour 180 simulator, $45 /half hour 300 simulator. Oh, and they are offering a 6 hour CCW training course for $99 that seems to be really comprehensive. |
None and I stopped in there a while back as they were just going to start construction on the new range. Had a rather odd discussion with one of their "top sales guys" as he called himself. None and I kinda gave each other this look  during and after our talk with him.We were both hoping they would come up with something decent as far as training is concerned (at least for the general public). He said Madison was the first to get the new academy because of sales numbers. None and I doubted that, felt it was more related to CCW hitting here next. I hope they have a decent trainer, and it works well for them. |
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The Onlaska store has had it since their grand opening.
I went with a friend of mine (who wanted to try one on my pistols before buying one) and all sorts of alarms started going off in my head as soon as we walked in. First we got frowned upon for buying ammo from farm and fleet to bring there to shoot. I asked if they'd price match and they said yes so I asked why not adjust your regular price to match f&f and he gave me a WTF/why? look. Then we got to sit through the little video about safety, then got a class from one of the trainers. 
He explained to us that they are all ex- something military and are the best trainers around. After that he talked about all the contracting they are doing with local law enforcement to have them get training there. Finally after 25 min of standing around we got to go onto the live fire range. The RO had to hand inspect all of our ammunition to make sure it wasn't reloads. (Still had the F&F receipt in the bag) Then we were given the all clear to shoot and he ran a target out for us. I didn't shoot but my friend did, the RO kept interrupting him while he was shooting about trigger control, sight picture, proper grip... My friend only shot 100 rounds and was ready to pack it up. When he finished shooting he wanted to take his target home but they wouldn't let him. On the way out they tried to push their training classes on us very hard. Then the RO used all sorts of examples of where proper training could come in handy. (Like finding a gun on the playground) I am glad I went, now I know I will never be going back. I hope I am the only one to have had a bad experience. |
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WI57, that sucks to hear. I guess I can see it going that way now. He did say they have an RO in the live range at all times, and with only 5-6 bays, there's ample opportunity for harassment.
Come to think of it, it would be fun to open up your own simulator much like they have for golf simulators. |
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It seems that any training place will be hindered or helped by the particular staff they have. Each store has its own culture. Some better, some worse. Quoted: I would encourage everyone to go check it out, at least see what you guys think. Maybe we just had a bad experience, but from the way gander does things I bet its going to get worse.  |
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If someone plans to go to the range a GM. I would like to supply you with som DFS branded remanned ammo at a reduced price, just so I can get a report on how they handled it. Or perhaps I might go if I could bring myself to give them my money. They probably wont let it on, only new mfg ammo from major manufacturers I believe is what they said.
They opened up the boxes of WWB and picked out about 10 rounds from each box and looked at it. We still had the F&F slip in the bag which was tied shut and he still gave me the stink eye. |
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The Onlaska store has had it since their grand opening. I went with a friend of mine (who wanted to try one on my pistols before buying one) and all sorts of alarms started going off in my head as soon as we walked in. First we got frowned upon for buying ammo from farm and fleet to bring there to shoot. I asked if they'd price match and they said yes so I asked why not adjust your regular price to match f&f and he gave me a WTF/why? look. Then we got to sit through the little video about safety, then got a class from one of the trainers.
He explained to us that they are all ex- something military and are the best trainers around. After that he talked about all the contracting they are doing with local law enforcement to have them get training there. Finally after 25 min of standing around we got to go onto the live fire range. The RO had to hand inspect all of our ammunition to make sure it wasn't reloads. (Still had the F&F receipt in the bag) Then we were given the all clear to shoot and he ran a target out for us. I didn't shoot but my friend did, the RO kept interrupting him while he was shooting about trigger control, sight picture, proper grip... My friend only shot 100 rounds and was ready to pack it up. When he finished shooting he wanted to take his target home but they wouldn't let him. On the way out they tried to push their training classes on us very hard. Then the RO used all sorts of examples of where proper training could come in handy. (Like finding a gun on the playground) I am glad I went, now I know I will never be going back. I hope I am the only one to have had a bad experience. Really annoying to endure a live 1/2 hour infomercial on their training when all you wanted was some range time. The safety intro is just what happens when you're a big retailer with corporate lawyers looking to limit liability. They may very well relent and let folks skip it after they've seen it before. I'm glad it's there and that the company perceives enough of a market to invest in it and go after the business; even if the execution leaves something to be desired. You and your buddy could have tried to tell him to back off if he was interrupting shooting. "I appreciate what you're trying to do, but it's overbearing and taking the fun out of my shooting. Please back off unless I'm committing a safety infraction that requires correction." Every once in a while someone apologizes and didn't mean it, but was just eager, and we end up getting along great after the air is clear. Rare, but it happens. At the same time we were harassed at Badger once. Similar crap. Couldn't use outside ammo even though it was NIB, but was willing to sell us THEIR bulk pack reloads to expend in a Glock. Couldn't put the targets where we wanted them. It was back of the range or nothing. Long diatribe about how no range in the country would let anyone shoot at any distance inside of 25 yards for any reason. When I informed him that I wasn't interested in shooting that distance he assumed we were unable and launched into some smug all-knowing talking down to us blather about how we needed lessons and he could fix what was wrong with us if only we gave him money. I packed up our gear, walked right past him while he was talking, and stood at the register to demand a refund. He tried to complain and I kept cutting him off to assert that I wanted my money back and wasn't interested in any discussion other than a full refund. After about five iterations on this he opened the register and gave me my money, but had to run his yap about how badly we needed his help and was still mouthing off as we made the door. Guess how much money I've given that place. I've heard that it has changed management and that it's a better place. I have no incentive to find out. Ruining a range trip costs me a bunch of my time and screwed up our day. I don't get a lot of rec time, so I'm not much on second chances when it is blown that badly. |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sU7jMJkYErY&feature=feedu
Here's a video the NRA did about it. I think the virtual scenario stuff could be good, but even in this video, you can see how in-the-face the instructor is. That's not the type of experience most of us that have been handling guns for a long time want when we're at the range. |
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The Onlaska store has had it since their grand opening. I went with a friend of mine (who wanted to try one on my pistols before buying one) and all sorts of alarms started going off in my head as soon as we walked in. First we got frowned upon for buying ammo from farm and fleet to bring there to shoot. I asked if they'd price match and they said yes so I asked why not adjust your regular price to match f&f and he gave me a WTF/why? look. Then we got to sit through the little video about safety, then got a class from one of the trainers.
He explained to us that they are all ex- something military and are the best trainers around. After that he talked about all the contracting they are doing with local law enforcement to have them get training there. Finally after 25 min of standing around we got to go onto the live fire range. The RO had to hand inspect all of our ammunition to make sure it wasn't reloads. (Still had the F&F receipt in the bag) Then we were given the all clear to shoot and he ran a target out for us. I didn't shoot but my friend did, the RO kept interrupting him while he was shooting about trigger control, sight picture, proper grip... My friend only shot 100 rounds and was ready to pack it up. When he finished shooting he wanted to take his target home but they wouldn't let him. On the way out they tried to push their training classes on us very hard. Then the RO used all sorts of examples of where proper training could come in handy. (Like finding a gun on the playground) I am glad I went, now I know I will never be going back. I hope I am the only one to have had a bad experience. Really annoying to endure a live 1/2 hour infomercial on their training when all you wanted was some range time. The safety intro is just what happens when you're a big retailer with corporate lawyers looking to limit liability. They may very well relent and let folks skip it after they've seen it before. I'm glad it's there and that the company perceives enough of a market to invest in it and go after the business; even if the execution leaves something to be desired. You and your buddy could have tried to tell him to back off if he was interrupting shooting. "I appreciate what you're trying to do, but it's overbearing and taking the fun out of my shooting. Please back off unless I'm committing a safety infraction that requires correction." Every once in a while someone apologizes and didn't mean it, but was just eager, and we end up getting along great after the air is clear. Rare, but it happens. At the same time we were harassed at Badger once. Similar crap. Couldn't use outside ammo even though it was NIB, but was willing to sell us THEIR bulk pack reloads to expend in a Glock. Couldn't put the targets where we wanted them. It was back of the range or nothing. Long diatribe about how no range in the country would let anyone shoot at any distance inside of 25 yards for any reason. When I informed him that I wasn't interested in shooting that distance he assumed we were unable and launched into some smug all-knowing talking down to us blather about how we needed lessons and he could fix what was wrong with us if only we gave him money. I packed up our gear, walked right past him while he was talking, and stood at the register to demand a refund. He tried to complain and I kept cutting him off to assert that I wanted my money back and wasn't interested in any discussion other than a full refund. After about five iterations on this he opened the register and gave me my money, but had to run his yap about how badly we needed his help and was still mouthing off as we made the door. Guess how much money I've given that place. I've heard that it has changed management and that it's a better place. I have no incentive to find out. Ruining a range trip costs me a bunch of my time and screwed up our day. I don't get a lot of rec time, so I'm not much on second chances when it is blown that badly. Badger is MUCH improved. They have a good crew there now. |
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None and I stopped in there a while back as they were just going to start construction on the new range. Had a rather odd discussion with one of their "top sales guys" as he called himself. None and I kinda gave each other this look during and after our talk with him.
We were both hoping they would come up with something decent as far as training is concerned (at least for the general public). He said Madison was the first to get the new academy because of sales numbers. None and I doubted that, felt it was more related to CCW hitting here next. I hope they have a decent trainer, and it works well for them. I wonder if that is the guy I've talked to in the past? Last winter I called the Madison store because my store (Woodbury MN) was out of stock on a Remington 26" Wingmasters and I had a customer who wanted one bad and Madison had three so I called to get one. The Madison employee called himself "the top salesman for the company" so he could not ship one because he might sell all three.
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Well TommyTrauma and I stopped out to check this thing out this evening. I was impressed. I walked in expecting to "meh" but it was actually kinda cool.
They will allow any age shooters on the live fire and virtual range (must be safe shooters of course) but must be over 16 to use the scenario based (16-18 with parent only). The guy we had showing us around explained that some youngsters will not understand about shooting what looks to them like actual people. They do have a de-briefing room where you can go over your performance one on one with one of their instructors (the whole thing is recorded) and if you push the you tube button it will do a post of your performance on you tube (takes 24-48 hours). They will allow holster work on any of the virtual ranges but not on the live fire range. FYI: Todd, they did tell us after we asked that they will allow original manufacture ammo, commercial remanufacture ammo but not someones handloads due to liability issues. |
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I went to check out the virtual ranges on Saturday, I was impressed and will be going back. The virtual range is a great way to show a beginner how to hold a weapon and learn trigger control. Also, it beats the hell out of dry fire practice, especially with a Glock. The CO2 powered slide action resets the striker for you. It wasn't busy at all when I was there, and talked one of the guys into letting me try a short demo on the simulator. And wow did that get my heart racing a little bit. Apparently there is a way the simulator detects what you are doing, and may or may not have a guy sneak up behind you. I checked my six a few times, but didn't see there was a stairwell with a bad guy. Got shot in the back by a homie.  Like I said, I will be back again to do the simulator a few times, $45/30 minutes seemed like it was worth it to me at least until you know all of the outcomes to every senario. Wouldn't be surprised at all by Gander Mountain if they raise the prices with-in a year on the ranges. |
| The live range at GM is really nice. I shot my AR-15 there about a month ago, and they told me that I was the first person to shoot that kind of rifle at the range since they had it open. Granted 30ft is not real hard to shoot at with this rifle, I just wanted to put a couple of 30rd mags through my gun. $25/hr and they supply all the targets you want. |
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The live range at GM is really nice. I shot my AR-15 there about a month ago, and they told me that I was the first person to shoot that kind of rifle at the range since they had it open. Granted 30ft is not real hard to shoot at with this rifle, I just wanted to put a couple of 30rd mags through my gun. $25/hr and they supply all the targets you want. Well its nice they allow rifles there now. Last time I was there they could not stress enough nothing but pistols could be shot there. Something about how their backstop was not rated for high velocity rounds. And no shotguns because they teat up the ir backer material. |
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The live range at GM is really nice. I shot my AR-15 there about a month ago, and they told me that I was the first person to shoot that kind of rifle at the range since they had it open. Granted 30ft is not real hard to shoot at with this rifle, I just wanted to put a couple of 30rd mags through my gun. $25/hr and they supply all the targets you want. Well its nice they allow rifles there now. Last time I was there they could not stress enough nothing but pistols could be shot there. Something about how their backstop was not rated for high velocity rounds. And no shotguns because they teat up the ir backer material. It was kinda of loud shooting the gun inside the range even with ear protection. It was kinda of cool though, when I turned around there was a bunch of people watching because they could hear the noise in the store a little bit and was wondering what was being fired in the range. lol |
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The live range at GM is really nice. I shot my AR-15 there about a month ago, and they told me that I was the first person to shoot that kind of rifle at the range since they had it open. Granted 30ft is not real hard to shoot at with this rifle, I just wanted to put a couple of 30rd mags through my gun. $25/hr and they supply all the targets you want. Well its nice they allow rifles there now. Last time I was there they could not stress enough nothing but pistols could be shot there. Something about how their backstop was not rated for high velocity rounds. And no shotguns because they teat up the ir backer material. It was kinda of loud shooting the gun inside the range even with ear protection. It was kinda of cool though, when I turned around there was a bunch of people watching because they could hear the noise in the store a little bit and was wondering what was being fired in the range. lol So what you're saying is.....I should take my .308? 
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The live range at GM is really nice. I shot my AR-15 there about a month ago, and they told me that I was the first person to shoot that kind of rifle at the range since they had it open. Granted 30ft is not real hard to shoot at with this rifle, I just wanted to put a couple of 30rd mags through my gun. $25/hr and they supply all the targets you want. Well its nice they allow rifles there now. Last time I was there they could not stress enough nothing but pistols could be shot there. Something about how their backstop was not rated for high velocity rounds. And no shotguns because they teat up the ir backer material. It was kinda of loud shooting the gun inside the range even with ear protection. It was kinda of cool though, when I turned around there was a bunch of people watching because they could hear the noise in the store a little bit and was wondering what was being fired in the range. lol So what you're saying is.....I should take my .308? They said the range can handle up to a .300 Winchester |
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The live range at GM is really nice. I shot my AR-15 there about a month ago, and they told me that I was the first person to shoot that kind of rifle at the range since they had it open. Granted 30ft is not real hard to shoot at with this rifle, I just wanted to put a couple of 30rd mags through my gun. $25/hr and they supply all the targets you want. Well its nice they allow rifles there now. Last time I was there they could not stress enough nothing but pistols could be shot there. Something about how their backstop was not rated for high velocity rounds. And no shotguns because they teat up the ir backer material. It was kinda of loud shooting the gun inside the range even with ear protection. It was kinda of cool though, when I turned around there was a bunch of people watching because they could hear the noise in the store a little bit and was wondering what was being fired in the range. lol So what you're saying is.....I should take my .308? They said the range can handle up to a .300 Winchester Good, glad to know they changed their minds. Now they can start having hunter sight in's at their ranges. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |