Posted: 4/25/2011 4:58:09 PM EDT
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Ok I am making a cow catcher for the truck. Built to hit a heard of deer at 70mph and drive away. I am adding the headlight guards and wanted to know what if any law there was as to how wide the guards can extend past the light\fender. I am not trying to hit cars in the other lane or anything, but wanted them to extend a couple of inches past the headlight\turn signal. I don't want to inhibit the lights from being seen. They certainly would not be even close to going out further than th e mirrors. In actuality the mirrors would extend 5" further than the guard.
What say you? |
| I wouldnt worry about it, might be a lawsuit happening, but what isnt nowadays, thats why you've got insurance. Just make sure whatever you put that far out of the main structure of the guard is tough, you hit a deer on those outsides there gunna put your welding and materials to the test. Might come out with more damage with the guard in that case that if you wouldnt have done it at all. Damage from your cow catcher wouldn't nessacarily fall under comprehensive damage either, even though a deer was the intial cause, so it'd be a good idea to check with the insurance company for rate reasons or if you dont have full coverage. Also, Im sure your well aware that your guard is only going to be as tough as your mounting point, your frame horns arent nessacarily strong either, make sure you've got a really good mount into a supportive section or you may just total your truck out. There a great idea, just that modern vehicles arent meant to give and absorb damage, not like the good old peices of iron like a K20 Chevy. |
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I've got one that wraps around the headlights. Probably about 3" past the fender on both sides.
It's not meant to to be a cow catcher. It's sturdy, but there are pivot bolts that attach the main guard to the pieces that bolt up to the frame. They're tight, but if I hit a deer at speed, that thing it going to make contact with the grille work. It's a good setup. If you bolt it the frame, brace it super solid, and then hit something hard, you might tweak the frame. |
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you can not go any wider that 102" on a vehicle with out wide load permits. I would think as long as you stay inside the mirrors you should be ok. people put 9'6" plows on the front of pick ups but to be legal you have to have them angled or in the v shape when driving down the road.
Brian |
| I'm not sure without looking it up, but the real answer is somewhere in here: DOT Administrative Code |
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I'm not sure without looking it up, but the real answer is somewhere in here: DOT Administrative Code Well the most I could find besides the Max witdh of 102" is this; No bumper may be damaged or distorted so that it projects
away from the vehicle in a manner which creates a hazard. Other than that I cannot find anything. |
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Back in 2002, I hit a deer inside the city limits of Rhinelander, at 1:30pm in February (deer don't move much in Feb., but some assholes were feeding them). Because I wasn't going fast (about 25mph) and the stock bumper on my truck (98 GMC K2500 Sierra) took a direct hit right at the frame mount, damage was only $500 from a cracked grill and broken turn signal.
In 2005, I hit another one, this time at 6:00pm on July 1st in the city of Eagle River by the cemetary. Again I was only traveling about 30mph, but I caught the 3rd & 4th of 4 deer in mid leap, 1 dead center in the hood, another in the bumper. Replaced were hood, headlight, turn signal, cowling, radiator top-mount, radiator, radio antenna (deer rolled up the hood and hit the windshield on the passenger side and rolled off taking the antenna with). Damage this time was $3K! But instead of replacing the stock bumper with another, I ordered and installed a TJM Bull Bar bumper. http://www.laceystjm.com/products_bullbars.htm If you look at the bumpers they make, you'll see that some of them wrap around the fender pretty sturdy-like. I didn't get one like that... too gaudy IMO. 
I contacted my insurance company (State Farm) and asked if they'd pay for part of the TJM, explaining that it'd save them money if I hit another one. They checked it out to see if it was "street legal" (it was), and gave me the cost of a stock bumper toward the purchase of the TJM, and said to keep receipt because if IT gets damaged, it's insured again up to the cost of a stock bumper. Stock bumper was about $350, and I found a TJM on sale in VA for $750. It cost $165 to ship it (weighs about 175lbs). My net cost was under $600. Does it work? You betcha. In 2009 I hit another deer going about 50mph.... right by the Eagle River ice arena where the Bob & Rocco shows are held. It was a small doe, about 100lbs. Only damage was a broken fog light I had mounted on the TJM. Without the TJM, it would've likely been another $3K in damage. I threw that deer 20yds into the ditch. 
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That looks nice.
Mine is just frame mounted. It will mount where the original tow hooks were attached, then the tow hooks get mounted to the fromt underside of the main mounts. Main mounts are 3-1/2" X 16" X 3/4" 1018 Uprights are 4" X 29" X 1/4" 1018 Main tubes are 3" diam 1/4" wall DOM tube Bottom cross member is 2" X 2" X 1/4" wall with 2" ID receiver mount for a portable winch Headlight guards which are not attached yet are made of 1-1/4" solid cold rolled round bar Which I heated and bent into a U shape. I will be adding horizontal 5/16" solid round rods as a guard for the lights. I also have tacked into place 1/4" X 1" 1018 flat stock on the face of the uprights that run all the way up the front over the top and down the back. I am reconsidering using just 1" wide material and thinking of getting 1-1/2" material. Not sure yet. All the welds are full length welds to add strength and seal the tubes. My only other thought is, do I just mount the headlight guards straight out in line with the rest of the structure? Or do I angle them back at about 10 or 15 degrees. I like the straight look, just not sure. I am also not sure if I want to add light mounts or not. What do you guys think? Of course everything will get Duracoated at the end. 
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That looks nice. Mine is just frame mounted. It will mount where the original tow hooks were attached, then the tow hooks get mounted to the fromt underside of the main mounts. Main mounts are 3-1/2" X 16" X 3/4" 1018 Uprights are 4" X 29" X 1/4" 1018 Main tubes are 3" diam 1/4" wall DOM tube Bottom cross member is 2" X 2" X 1/4" wall with 2" ID receiver mount for a portable winch Headlight guards which are not attached yet are made of 1-1/4" solid cold rolled round bar Which I heated and bent into a U shape. I will be adding horizontal 5/16" solid round rods as a guard for the lights. I also have tacked into place 1/4" X 1" 1018 flat stock on the face of the uprights that run all the way up the front over the top and down the back. I am reconsidering using just 1" wide material and thinking of getting 1-1/2" material. Not sure yet. All the welds are full length welds to add strength and seal the tubes. My only other thought is, do I just mount the headlight guards straight out in line with the rest of the structure? Or do I angle them back at about 10 or 15 degrees. I like the straight look, just not sure. I am also not sure if I want to add light mounts or not. What do you guys think? Of course everything will get Duracoated at the end. http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1293/4220040/23362044/396438137.jpg http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1293/4220040/23362044/396437990.jpg http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1293/4220040/23362044/396437980.jpg http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1293/4220040/23362044/396437996.jpg Looks good. Just wondering... if you hit your mailbox, which would survive? 
Kinda figured that, on the duracoat. Mine came powder-coated in black, and I'm somewhat surprised how well it's held up. I've got some cross-members made up that go horizontally across the light openings, to give a little more protection to the headlights. I made then from "T" angle from an old garage door opener. I was waiting for the bumper to get some rust before welding them in place... I'd then paint the whole thing instead of just touching up the welds. It's just starting to get a little rust in some corners. Now that I've "discovered" duracoat and had some practice, mine will get duracoat too.... along with the lower 10-12" of my fenders where the gravel roads have chipped the paint off. Maybe this summer. I've got 4 guns waiting for duracoat. My pole-barn isn't heated, and spring hasn't gotten here yet (it's snowing up north, again, as I type this  ).
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I'm not sure without looking it up, but the real answer is somewhere in here: DOT Administrative Code Vehicle equipment is ....here.... Trans 305.05 Definitions.
(6) “Bumper” means a device mounted at the front or rear of a vehicle for absorbing shock and providing a contact point that may reduce damage to the vehicle in a collision. Trans 305.18 Bumpers.
(1) (a) .....Replacement equipment shall be the same type as originally required or of equivalent size, strength and surface area. The bumpers may be mounted externally on the vehicle or installed within the front and rear extremes of the vehicle. (2) (a) All required bumpers shall be securely mounted to the vehicle and at a height that does not vary from the manufacturer’s specifications by more than is permitted under s. 347.455, Stats. In the absence of manufacturer’s specifications, every required bumper shall provide a contact point no higher than 30 inches from the level surface on which the vehicle stands. ...(c) No bumper may be damaged or distorted so that it projects away from the vehicle in a manner which creates a hazard. Trans 305.22 Fenders and projecting parts.
(5) No part of the vehicle or any vehicle accessory shall project away from the vehicle in a hazardous manner |
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I'm not sure without looking it up, but the real answer is somewhere in here: DOT Administrative Code Vehicle equipment is ....here.... Trans 305.05 Definitions.
(6) “Bumper” means a device mounted at the front or rear of a vehicle for absorbing shock and providing a contact point that may reduce damage to the vehicle in a collision. Trans 305.18 Bumpers.
(1) (a) .....Replacement equipment shall be the same type as originally required or of equivalent size, strength and surface area. The bumpers may be mounted externally on the vehicle or installed within the front and rear extremes of the vehicle. (2) (a) All required bumpers shall be securely mounted to the vehicle and at a height that does not vary from the manufacturer’s specifications by more than is permitted under s. 347.455, Stats. In the absence of manufacturer’s specifications, every required bumper shall provide a contact point no higher than 30 inches from the level surface on which the vehicle stands. ...(c) No bumper may be damaged or distorted so that it projects away from the vehicle in a manner which creates a hazard. Trans 305.22 Fenders and projecting parts.
(5) No part of the vehicle or any vehicle accessory shall project away from the vehicle in a hazardous manner Didn't see the fender part... Who determins if it is a hazardous manner? |
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Didn't see the fender part... Who determins if it is a hazardous manner? Possibly the width standard.. State Statute... 348.05 Width of vehicles. (1) No person without a permit
therefor shall operate on a highway any vehicle having a total width in excess of 8 feet 6 inches, except as otherwise provided in this section. (4) Notwithstanding sub. (1), the secretary may restrict vehicles to a width of less than 8 feet 6 inches on any portion of any state or local highway if he or she deems such restriction necessary to protect the public safety. Admin Code Trans 276.03 Safety devices−width exclusion.
(1) The devices in this subsection are designated as safety devices as required under 23 CFR 658.5 (g) and 23 CFR 658.15 and are not included in the calculation of width: (a) Rear−view mirrors; (b) Turn−signal lamps; (c) Hand−holds for cab entry and egress; (d) Splash and spray suppressant devices; (e) Load induced tire bulge. (2) The devices in this subsection are determined to be safety devices and are not to be included in the calculation of width provided such devices do not extend beyond 3 inches on each side of a vehicle. (a) Door hardware, including door handles and locking devices. (b) Load tie down devices. (c) Toe holds or retractable steps. |
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I'm not sure without looking it up, but the real answer is somewhere in here: DOT Administrative Code Vehicle equipment is ....here.... Trans 305.05 Definitions.
(6) “Bumper” means a device mounted at the front or rear of a vehicle for absorbing shock and providing a contact point that may reduce damage to the vehicle in a collision. Trans 305.18 Bumpers.
(1) (a) .....Replacement equipment shall be the same type as originally required or of equivalent size, strength and surface area. The bumpers may be mounted externally on the vehicle or installed within the front and rear extremes of the vehicle. (2) (a) All required bumpers shall be securely mounted to the vehicle and at a height that does not vary from the manufacturer’s specifications by more than is permitted under s. 347.455, Stats. In the absence of manufacturer’s specifications, every required bumper shall provide a contact point no higher than 30 inches from the level surface on which the vehicle stands....(c) No bumper may be damaged or distorted so that it projects away from the vehicle in a manner which creates a hazard. Trans 305.22 Fenders and projecting parts.
(5) No part of the vehicle or any vehicle accessory shall project away from the vehicle in a hazardous manner The red part is easily mis-interpreted. What it means is that no bumper can have it's lowest contact point higher than 30 inches (think lifted trucks like "Bigfoot"). It does NOT mean that the top of the bumper cannot be higher than 30". |
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Are you going to add lights? I have the KC lights on my truck and I cant get over how bright they are. Part of not hitting deer is seeing them first. Yeah I havnt decided on lights or not. I have seen the KC's, but arnt they like big $$? That and I don't know how big they are or where I would put them. I don't really want to obstruct the grill with huge lights. |
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Are you going to add lights? I have the KC lights on my truck and I cant get over how bright they are. Part of not hitting deer is seeing them first. Yeah I havnt decided on lights or not. I have seen the KC's, but arnt they like big $$? That and I don't know how big they are or where I would put them. I don't really want to obstruct the grill with huge lights. I like big headlights.... |
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Are you going to add lights? I have the KC lights on my truck and I cant get over how bright they are. Part of not hitting deer is seeing them first. Yeah I havnt decided on lights or not. I have seen the KC's, but arnt they like big $$? That and I don't know how big they are or where I would put them. I don't really want to obstruct the grill with huge lights. They are a bit spendy, but are very effective. 
link 
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Any updated pics? Worked on it a bit yesterday. Will be working on it more today. I hope to have the structure finished today Headlight guards are ready to be tacked in place and welded. I think I am going to add light mounts to the bottome crossmember, and I have to make a license plate bracket assuming I have enough 1018 steel left. To answer your other question I think the bags will still deploy. |
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Are you going to add lights? I have the KC lights on my truck and I cant get over how bright they are. Part of not hitting deer is seeing them first. What KC lights are you running? I've been looking at adding some to my truck. Do you have them wired on their own switch or wired into the highbeams? Do they come with their own wiring, switches? Did you wire it into the fuse box or do they come with their own stand alone fuse? sorry to hijack Thread Ram-Rod |
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The lights I have on mine are KCs. Can't tell you the model number, I've had them about 20 yrs (took them off a previous truck and put them on this one), but they're sealed beam bulbs, 100 watts each, and super bright. I only use them when on logging roads during hunting season where there's no oncoming traffic... I keep the covers on otherwise, cuz they're not "street legal". I have them wired with a seperate relay system with it's own fuse, and controlled by a single switch on my dashboard.
For deer visibility, I have smaller 55w driving lights (KCs also), and they're angled toward the ditches on both sides (known as "ditch lights" up north ). Those too are on a relay, seperate fuse, dash controlled switch. They're "street legal" and the way I've got them aimed, they don't interfere with oncoming traffic, but allow me to see deer alongside the road that regular headlights don't. .
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Are you going to add lights? I have the KC lights on my truck and I cant get over how bright they are. Part of not hitting deer is seeing them first. What KC lights are you running? I've been looking at adding some to my truck. Do you have them wired on their own switch or wired into the highbeams? Do they come with their own wiring, switches? Did you wire it into the fuse box or do they come with their own stand alone fuse? sorry to hijack Thread Ram-Rod Np Car Ram-Rod out. 
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The lights I have on mine are KCs. Can't tell you the model number, I've had them about 20 yrs (took them off a previous truck and put them on this one), but they're sealed beam bulbs, 100 watts each, and super bright. I only use them when on logging roads during hunting season where there's no oncoming traffic... I keep the covers on otherwise, cuz they're not "street legal". I have them wired with a seperate relay system with it's own fuse, and controlled by a single switch on my dashboard. For deer visibility, I have smaller 55w driving lights (KCs also), and they're angled toward the ditches on both sides (known as "ditch lights" up north ). Those too are on a relay, seperate fuse, dash controlled switch. They're "street legal" and the way I've got them aimed, they don't interfere with oncoming traffic, but allow me to see deer alongside the road that regular headlights don't. .I have been looking at lights and find that you can buy them new on Ebay for cheaper than online. I am adding the mounts anyway for them. I like the idea of ditch lights. |
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Are you going to add lights? I have the KC lights on my truck and I cant get over how bright they are. Part of not hitting deer is seeing them first. What KC lights are you running? I've been looking at adding some to my truck. Do you have them wired on their own switch or wired into the highbeams? Do they come with their own wiring, switches? Did you wire it into the fuse box or do they come with their own stand alone fuse? sorry to hijack Thread Ram-Rod I have a link to them by my picture above. They are wired to a switch in my cab. They come with everything including the wiring housing and fuses. They make driving in bad weather so much better. Eta: flame, mine are off-road lights but I only use them on back roads which I drive a lot and have them angled so I can see deer in the ditch. They make all the difference when it's fogy and deer are hard to see. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Admittedly I could have gone a little less material. Not my finest welds. They are gorrilla welds. Strong but ugly.
Sorry for the smog, I just finished a session of welding. I need way more fans. This is still rough, and needs some tlc. I am going to bring it to someone prior to Duracoat to blast the whole thing for me. I still need to add the license plate mount and light mounts. 
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I think there was something about the number of "uncovered" forward mounted lights too. I'm not sure but I think there may be a technicality there too.
Uncovered meaning if you had 10 extra lights on the front bar or something like a rollbar, they would only be legal if most of them had covers on them or something. I remember somebody getting a citation years ago for forward facing lights. Just trying to save you the pain later on.......of course then again, you seem to like inflicting pain on yourself anyways......... 
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I think there was something about the number of "uncovered" forward mounted lights too. I'm not sure but I think there may be a technicality there too. Uncovered meaning if you had 10 extra lights on the front bar or something like a rollbar, they would only be legal if most of them had covers on them or something. I remember somebody getting a citation years ago for forward facing lights. Just trying to save you the pain later on.......of course then again, you seem to like inflicting pain on yourself anyways......... I'm pretty sure the law is that there can only be 4 forward facing "white" lights turned on while operating on public roadways (i.e - 2 headlights and 2 fog lights). As for having them covered, I'm not sure about that one. |
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I like it. What color will it be in the end? ps, you need to get a exhaust fan in the shop  Yes about the fans. I want to put them in the ceiling but don't want to cut the holes in fear of leakage. Color? Probably black. I have a bunch of HK black I have not used for anything. Other than that I am not sure. Ideas? |
After you get it installed, see if you can put a deer up in a tree, like this . 
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 That is crazy!!!
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Whats funny is that the deer didnt come down...
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have you got it dura coated yet? Not yet. I got derailed from any progress. I am working on some other stuff today, and hope to maybe finally finish the welding and such. I am going to then take it to a sanblaster to blast it, then Duracoat. MAYBE by the end of the week. |
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I have a light rack on the front of my truck. 4 Hella lamps, on a KC light mount bar. Never had a cop question me, but if I were questioned, 2 would be "spot lamps"
( 59) “Spotlamp” means an auxiliary driving lamp used primarily to supplement the headlamps in providing general illumination ahead of the vehicle, usually mounted and designed so it can be controlled by the operator of the vehicle for the purpose of reading signs and lluminating objects to the side of or beyond the scope of the regular headlamp beams) and 2 would be "adverse weather lamps" (340.01(1m) “Adverse weather lamp” means a lamp specially designed to provide road illumination under conditions of rain, snow, dust or fog). The outer two are aimed for the ditch, inner two are high beams. 347.26 Restrictions on certain optional lighting equipment. (1) GENERAL RESTRICTIONS. A vehicle need not be equipped with the lamps specified in this section, but if a vehicle is equipped with any such lamps, no person shall operate such vehicle on a highway during hours of darkness unless such lamps comply with the requirements of this section and no person shall use such lamps in a manner inconsistent with this section. (2) SPOTLAMPS. (a) Any motor vehicle may be equipped with not more than 2 spotlamps.(b) No spotlamp shall be used as a substitute for headlamps. No spotlamp shall be used as an auxiliary driving light on any motor vehicle except when such spotlamp is set or adjusted so that the rays of light are projected directly upon the road surface at a distance not exceeding 150 feet directly in front of the vehicle and to the right of the center of the traveled roadway. No spotlamp shall project any glaring light into the eyes of an approaching driver. (3) ADVERSE WEATHER LAMPS. (a) Any motor vehicle may be equipped with not more than 2 adverse weather lamps which shall be mounted on the front of the vehicle below the level of the centers of the headlamps.(b) Adverse weather lamps shall not be used in lieu of headlamps unless absolutely necessary in case of rain, snow, dust or fog and then only when a vehicle is equipped with 2 adverse weather lamps mounted on opposite sides of the front of the vehicle and when both such adverse weather lamps are lighted. Whenever any vehicle is equipped with only one adverse weather lamp, both headlamps of such vehicle shall be lighted at all times when such adverse weather lamp is lighted. |
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Not a bad looking setup. Here is my meager deer strainer: http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg76/gi57/Truck/P8271764.jpg That's incredibly close to what I'm running, if not the exact same model. Whoever hits a deer first should post pics of how the guard holds up. In before Flame goes racing around on rural roads at night looking to test his out ......... 
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Not a bad looking setup. Here is my meager deer strainer: http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg76/gi57/Truck/P8271764.jpg That's incredibly close to what I'm running, if not the exact same model. Whoever hits a deer first should post pics of how the guard holds up. In before Flame goes racing around on rural roads at night looking to test his out ......... If I cream one I'll post pics. But I havent seen a damn deer on the road since I had it installed. (probably a good thing) I guess it makes a horrible sound that scares deer off the roads or something when I'm driving. 
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Ok this was a quick mock up. I need to adjust the holes in the mounting plates and as you can see I will need to sweep the headlight guards back at an angle or I will hit every car when I try to part in a parking lot.
The top will also tilt back a little when final mounting is done. This thing was a bear to try and move into place by myself. Glad I have all my fingers and toes.
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You didn't mock it up first with a couple of 2x4's, some cardboard, and duct tape?
It looks really beefy in the middle. I'm curious to see how much is sags the front end. You might end up replacing springs. Also, you could put in a leveling kit. ETA: looks awesome! can't wait to see it when it is done.
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You didn't mock it up first with a couple of 2x4's, some cardboard, and duct tape?
It looks really beefy in the middle. I'm curious to see how much is sags the front end. You might end up replacing springs. Also, you could put in a leveling kit. ETA: looks awesome! can't wait to see it when it is done. Anyone know if I can just tighten up the torsion bars a little to gain some height back? |