Posted: 12/8/2010 8:45:18 AM EDT
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I am thinking of doing a SBR
Can I buy a stripped lower now and then submit it later, for being the SBR, when I want to do the paperwork and tax stamp? From what I have read you must: Fill out the paperwork Send it in with $200 Wait to get approved Get the lower engraved Profit??? Any class 3 guys want to chime in to help me? Also does anyone know a NFA trust lawyer? or a PC program to help me set one up? |
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I am thinking of doing a SBR Can I buy a stripped lower now and then submit it later, for being the SBR, when I want to do the paperwork and tax stamp? From what I have read you must: Fill out the paperwork Send it in with $200 Wait to get approved Get the lower engraved Profit??? Any class 3 guys want to chime in to help me? Also does anyone know a NFA trust lawyer? or a PC program to help me set one up? I would change your order to: Get the lower engraved (wait until it is in your possession and engraved CORRECTLY before proceeding to the next step) Fill out the paperwork Send it in with $200 Wait to get approved Profit??? You can leave it stripped / un-assembled until the F1 comes back or build a pistol first. Kind of depends what is currently in your possession upper / lower wise though... I used Quicken Willmaker 2009 (NOT 2010 version, no trust creation is included with that version). Some will feel better using a lawyer, you will have to do what you are comfortable with. Also, you can do it in the order you have in your OP, but if something happens during the engraving phase (lost lower in shipment, spelling errors, etc...) you now have a registered NFA item that is not correct / legal or worse (lost). Just my opinion, I'm sure you'll get others 
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Also does anyone know a NFA trust lawyer? I know of a really good NFA trust lawyer in the appleton area that has a awosome price of 250 and you only pay the guy once after that one payment anytime you want to add more items you email or call him with all needed info and he updates your trust and faxes or emails the paper work to you or class three dealer. I went this route and my wait time to get the papers drafted and ready was the time it took me to drive to his office to sign and pick up my copy. he is also a huge class three collector s well. he does a lot of work for Precision sports in oshkosh and the guys there swear by him as well. And i have yet to hear of someones paper work getting kicked back do to a error on his end. If you or anyone else would like his contact information either email or IM me and I will give it to you. I also bought my striped lower and had it SBR for multiple calibers first (did this so I dont have to take a complete riffle out of comission while waiting on paper work) and while i was waiting should say still waithing have been buying my parts here and there as funds come avalible, I also bought my SB upper in 11.5 already because it was onsale which is fine Just dont dare get any wise ideas to put in on another lower that does not have a stamp. |
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Also does anyone know a NFA trust lawyer? I know of a really good NFA trust lawyer in the appleton area that has a awosome price of 250 and you only pay the guy once after that one payment anytime you want to add more items you email or call him with all needed info and he updates your trust and faxes or emails the paper work to you or class three dealer. I went this route and my wait time to get the papers drafted and ready was the time it took me to drive to his office to sign and pick up my copy. he is also a huge class three collector s well. he does a lot of work for Precision sports in oshkosh and the guys there swear by him as well. And i have yet to hear of someones paper work getting kicked back do to a error on his end. If you or anyone else would like his contact information either email or IM me and I will give it to you. I also bought my striped lower and had it SBR for multiple calibers first (did this so I dont have to take a complete riffle out of comission while waiting on paper work) and while i was waiting should say still waithing have been buying my parts here and there as funds come avalible, I also bought my SB upper in 11.5 already because it was onsale which is fine Just dont dare get any wise ideas to put in on another lower that does not have a stamp. How do you SBR it for multiple caliblers? Are you not allowed to swap uppers on it? |
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How do you SBR it for multiple caliblers? Are you not allowed to swap uppers on it? You don't. There was a time where "multiple" was allowed, iirc. However, you are required to state a caliber. Multi no longer flies from what I've been hearing. It is perfectly ok to use different barrel lengths, or calibers, but any permanent changes should be passed on to the ATF. |
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How do you SBR it for multiple caliblers? Are you not allowed to swap uppers on it? You don't. There was a time where "multiple" was allowed, iirc. However, you are required to state a caliber. Multi no longer flies from what I've been hearing. It is perfectly ok to use different barrel lengths, or calibers, but any permanent changes should be passed on to the ATF. You are allowed to do a SBR lower with multiple calibers by changing the upper reciver and in some cases by adding some sort of lower receiver block to the mag well in most case like in the case of wanting to put a 9mm upper on your SBR lower that has a buttstock on it. My lower is a YHM lower stamped "multi-caliber" now when I sent in the paper work I need to pick a starting caliber and in my case it was a 5.56 now if I want to use a different caliber with the same lower I need to send the BATF a letter stating what the caliber is. So What I am saying and like NAM stated you can not send in the paper work with the caliber listed as "multi" you need to pick a caliber and after that you can add calibers you use or intend to use by sending the BATF a letter and you are GTG the day that letter goes in the mail box, at least that is what I was told and I was also told not to expect a response back from the BATF. |
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Mine went like this:
Found out how easy it was to get a SBR approved. Sent my lowers off to get engraved, got them back. Filled out the Form 1 and had my CLEO sign it and fingerprint me. Sent Form 1 in with the checks, cert of citizenship, and fingerprint cards. Waited about 2.5 months, got forms back. Took barrels to gunsmith to get chopped down. Put my SBR's together and had fun. 
The suppressors went pretty much the same way.
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| I recently completed my first SBR (via trust) and had the engraving done locally at Appleton Trophy at the beginning of the process. They did an excellent job. Just call em and tell em what you're looking to get done. They didn't bat an eyelash at my request. It cost $75 and I dropped it off in the morning and had it back by mid afternoon. The engraver who did it (I forget his name) has done detail work on firearms and knew what he was talking about. |
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This is a temporary hijacking! WI57 were did you send your lower to for the engraving? I'm looking for options for my next build? also who is the can manufacture? thanks The suppressors are Advanced Armament Company's M4-2000. I sent my lowers to Ident Marking. They did an awesome job, and had it back in a week. I believe Idents owner is on here, his user name is Karma, search for him in the NV forum. /hijacking
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I recently completed my first SBR (via trust) and had the engraving done locally at Appleton Trophy at the beginning of the process. They did an excellent job. Just call em and tell em what you're looking to get done. They didn't bat an eyelash at my request. It cost $75 and I dropped it off in the morning and had it back by mid afternoon. The engraver who did it (I forget his name) has done detail work on firearms and knew what he was talking about. Tread very carefully here. This is an excerpt from the ATF Pub 5300.4 Read it and draw your own conclusion about using the engraver down the street... additionally, the ATF has very specific requirements for location and how the engraving is to be done (i.e. depth and size). I. GUNSMITHS
(I1) Is a license needed to engage in the business of engraving, customizing, refinishing or repairing firearms? Yes. A person conducting such activities as a business is considered to be a gunsmith within the definition of a dealer. See Item 16, “Federal Excise Tax” in the General Information section of this publication. [27 CFR 478.11] (I2) Does a gunsmith need to enter in a permanent "bound book" record every firearm received for adjustment or repair? If a firearm is brought in for repairs and the owner waits while it is being repaired or if the gunsmith is able to return the firearm to the owner during the same business day, it is not necessary to list the firearm in the “bound book” as an "acquisition." If the gunsmith has possession of the firearm from one business day to another or longer, the firearm must be recorded as an “acquisition” and a “disposition” in the permanent "bound book" record. |
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Tread very carefully here. This is an excerpt from the ATF Pub 5300.4 Read it and draw your own conclusion about using the engraver down the street... additionally, the ATF has very specific requirements for location and how the engraving is to be done (i.e. depth and size). True, there is a minimum depth and size requirement. Many lasers do not go deep enough. However, I do not see a problem with having the local engraver take care of it, provided their equipment meets the legal requirements. There is a major diference between being in the business of "of engraving, customizing, refinishing or repairing firearms" and being an engraver that might engrave a firearm or two throughout the year. I'm sure that, just like selling personal firearms without an FFL, a certain amount is ok. Just my two cents. |
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I recently completed my first SBR (via trust) and had the engraving done locally at Appleton Trophy at the beginning of the process. They did an excellent job. Just call em and tell em what you're looking to get done. They didn't bat an eyelash at my request. It cost $75 and I dropped it off in the morning and had it back by mid afternoon. The engraver who did it (I forget his name) has done detail work on firearms and knew what he was talking about. Tread very carefully here. This is an excerpt from the ATF Pub 5300.4 Read it and draw your own conclusion about using the engraver down the street... additionally, the ATF has very specific requirements for location and how the engraving is to be done (i.e. depth and size). I. GUNSMITHS
(I1) Is a license needed to engage in the business of engraving, customizing, refinishing or repairing firearms? Yes. A person conducting such activities as a business is considered to be a gunsmith within the definition of a dealer. See Item 16, “Federal Excise Tax” in the General Information section of this publication. [27 CFR 478.11] (I2) Does a gunsmith need to enter in a permanent "bound book" record every firearm received for adjustment or repair? If a firearm is brought in for repairs and the owner waits while it is being repaired or if the gunsmith is able to return the firearm to the owner during the same business day, it is not necessary to list the firearm in the “bound book” as an "acquisition." If the gunsmith has possession of the firearm from one business day to another or longer, the firearm must be recorded as an “acquisition” and a “disposition” in the permanent "bound book" record. Good points and I guess that's what I meant when I said the guy there knew what he was talking about. I told him about the ATF requirements and we discussed his previous work on firearms and what equipment he was using. He explained that he uses a mechanical pantograph engraver and that the size and depth requirements were not a problem. I admit I did not think of the Gunsmith definition which includes engraving but he described for me the work he has done on other firearms which ranged from Identification marks on guns to full blown custom engraving with gold inlay and so on. Needless to say after talking with him I felt comfortable with having him do the work. |