Posted: 11/28/2010 3:16:25 PM EDT
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Anyone ever do this course? HERE
Wanted to do the CCW class they offer. Maybe some of their other classes if their any good. I know nothing about them other than the flyer I picked up at Fletcher's in Waukesha. Can anyone vouch for them/recommend them or are there better options out there? Thanks, cranked |
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Yeah I think it's just the class so that you can apply for the UT CCW permit. From what I understand it's mostly classroom time talking about legalities and so on then you need to "qualify" for a lack of a better word on the range to pass and be able to apply for the permit.
But, then again I could be completely misunderstanding. That's why I was hoping someone had done the class or knew about it. |
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I took my utah permit through them, it seemed like a very long class to me. He takes alot of stuff from Massad Ayoob, who he used to list in his qualifications as taking a class from but no longer does and from Dave grossman. Often times either repackaging the stuff from those sources as his own inadvertently or not. Hard to compare it to any other Utah CCW instructors because I havent taken it any other one, that siad I have met a few other people that doeteach Utah CCW certifications and Micheal is no better or worse than them. They usued to have a deal where you got a deal if you enrolled a friend. I dont believe Utah even has a requirement for shooting in thier CCW class. Utah doesnt require any rounds to be fired for the class PPA only mkaes you fire about 25 or so jus to see if you can hit something there isnt any instruction for the live fire part i saw.
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Quoted: Have a link for Gene? Sheesh... I did his class about 5- years ago? To be honest I'm just taking a stab at his name. I remember what he looks like: blondish hair, probably high thirties, perhaps low forties, glasses and I recall that he's Mormon/LDS as he gave a 20 second recruitment pitch to start the class.
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I'm a little skeptical. I looked at his Carbine 1.. It runs from 0900hrs to 1530hrs.. 6 hrs to teach someone how to run a carbine, lots of material to cover in 6 hrs..
And he recommends a 1 point sling.... And no prices listed.... Makes my Spidey senses tingle... |
| I took his UT carry permit class back in 2007. It was a decent course. However, as Flamethrower mentioned, the round count is pitiful. I think the only reason for live fire in this course is to just make sure you can run your pistol or revolver. If you are looking to get a UT non-resident carry permit, it will do that. However, at this point, I would wait for the RESIDENT WI carry permit, and any/all training requirements yet to be announced. |
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I took the Utah CCW class, as well as Handgun 1 thru 5. I bought them all as a package deal a couple years ago.
Utah Permit to Carry As others have mentioned, the Utah class was a little long and very basic, if you are a gun person you are going to get a lot of information that you already know (eg. this is revolver, this a semi-auto pistol, here are holster options, etc). The class really is designed for someone who doesn't have any firearm experience. When I talked to him after the class it was explained to me that he has to do that as it's part of the required curriculum for the Utah permit. I assume a class by someone else would have similar content. I gained the most knowledge about the legalities of carrying... shoot/no-shoot situations, what juries/lawyers are going to do, what you should/should not do after a shoot, etc. What can you expect your body to do during a shooting.... There is very little shooting, basically it just for them to make sure you can handle a firearm. They offering photo and fingerprinting for the Utah permit for an additional charge. I walked out of there with all of the documents I needed to send in my permit application. Handgun 1 thru 5 I don't have anything to compare these classes to as these are the only handgun training classes I have taken. The really classes had more classroom than the later class. Classroom portions expanded on the effects of "tunnel vision" during a encounter & what you need to do to minimize the effect, spoke of awareness when carrying, having a plan and being prepared for different situations, etc... Again the shooting portions of the class were more as the classes progressed. Many different shooting positions and shooting thru the progression of drawing the firearm (eg. drills were you shoot 3 rounds, one as you clear the holster, one at center of chest, and once at full extension of arms). Drawing from holster was the standard, as least in the later classes. Personally, I was more informed and prepared after I left the classes. Again, this is the only class I have taken, so I can't really compare... |
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I have been given a gift for a course I think last Christmas but not taken yet. He has had some deals (steals really) at times to purchase multiple courses at once. I kick myself for not purchasing the certificates for everything at once with one of his specials. Keep in mind the FIRST class of the handgun series with the UT CCW doesn't require shooting as stated above –– almost every other course does not do any. I would agree that we will likely see a course of our own and if not traveling, may be worth waiting for at this point. There was also that class at Cabela's recently that seemed like a steal for the UT only. If you are looking to go further, this might be what you want. I took the course by Paul Horvick / Shooting Safely –– he came down to New Berlin for the day and set up shop at the Holiday Inn Express, no shooting component. I liked his style and insight as an attorney who loves firearms. The rest of the handgun and carbine classes have higher round counts, etc. I can't speak first hand having not actually done his yet –– but speaking with him, he is a good guy and seems to know his stuff. Maybe we're not talking about the same as a high level nationally known course here, I'm sure it is smaller scale with a local person. It depends on what you want I guess. I would like to hear from someone who went through the carbine course before doing it though. I would add that he donated a couple certificates to our Roasted Nuts shoot this past summer and to me that says you should at least give him the benefit of the doubt and make the call to check it out if nothing else. I think he had the fastest response of any vendor asked and was very nice about it. I don't recall who got them –– I think they were for that first UT/CCW class only? |
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I found the info of the class I took... I really liked him, a nice guy, smart, knows his stuff and is a great communicator. I also found a list of a bunch of them in Wisconsin |
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Michael Bender who teaches the Personal Protection Academy courses is very knowledgeable.
You guys have the remember that the Utah permit course is made just to get you your permit and he has to teach very specific ideas and such per the state of Utah. Nowhere does he state that this is a class for someone that shoots quite a bit to get better. As stated earlier there is more shooting as you move forward in the classes. A friend of mine who had never owned a handgun went through all of his classes and is now a very competent and competitive marksmen due soley to Mr. Bender's classes. Take the class for what it's worth but do not denounce it for not being something it does not claim to be. |
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Quoted:
I found the info of the class I took... I really liked him, a nice guy, smart, knows his stuff and is a great communicator. I also found a list of a bunch of them in Wisconsin Your 1st link isn't too clear, but it looks like you've got BDJ highlighted as the instructor you had. My daughter and I took their MN course back in '05. Back in '05, I corresponded by e-mail with Bill about taking his course. I mentioned that there weren't any CCW courses up north. Bill said if I set one up (recruit some students and find a place to do the class) he'd come up north and give a class. So I did... I signed up 13 students, one of whom owns a motel with a meeting room, not too far from a shooting range, and the class was on. Bill's been back several times since then, giving more classes up north. Bill is a great guy, and knows his stuff. Can't say enough good things about him. I've kept in touch with him since 05, and he's become a good friend. What I like most about him & his wife Deb is they really care about whether their students know what they're doing, it's not just an "income" to them. They're passionate about what they're doing. I highly recommend his & Deb's course. |
Wife and I took the UT CCW class about 2 months ago. It is EXTREMELY basic. The low-round count is there for a reason (and I don't think it should be, as some of the people in the class couldn't hit ANYTHING even with a ruger MKII at 10 yards  ) I guess, and that is so that I think you can prove you know how to pull the trigger.
The rest of the class is mostly legalities, etc. There is no test or anything. They do your paperwork at the end of the day, pay your money, and you get your CCW permit in the mail about 2 months later. Overall, I'd say for the cost, it's worth it if you know what you're doing. I wish my wife would have had some more hands-on training. And like I said, from some (basically every wife in the class) of the people in the classes' ineptitude of firearms training, I'd hate to have them carrying if they aren't going to get more formal training down the road. |
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Quoted:
Michael Bender who teaches the Personal Protection Academy courses is very knowledgeable. You guys have the remember that the Utah permit course is made just to get you your permit and he has to teach very specific ideas and such per the state of Utah. Nowhere does he state that this is a class for someone that shoots quite a bit to get better. As stated earlier there is more shooting as you move forward in the classes. A friend of mine who had never owned a handgun went through all of his classes and is now a very competent and competitive marksmen due soley to Mr. Bender's classes. Take the class for what it's worth but do not denounce it for not being something it does not claim to be. pretty much this right here. Michael DOES do a good job covering the subject. But again, this is ONLY a UT CCW class. Technically there doesn't HAVE to be ANY range time according to other's I've heard who have taken other courses. |