Posted: 10/2/2010 3:19:47 PM EDT
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Well this happened a couple of weeks ago already but i was just sitting here and it this really started to grind my gears again.
I live in New London(its 20 minutes west and a bit north of the fox valley) and for years every time I wanted to put some lead downrange I went to the New London Fish and Game Club. Which specialized in trap shooting and they have a bow range. And for the first time this year I was out there and the guy informed me that I needed to buy a membership for the low price of 10 bucks to use all the ranges. So me and my friends fork over the money to have the convenience of shooting just outside of town without havening to drive very far. Until a couple of weeks ago when my one of my friends informed us that he had never fired a gun before. And as far as I’m concerned firing a gun is like a right of passage into manhood. So I figure I will invite him out to the range with us so he could fire a handgun and a rifle well we get down there and this guy walks up and asks us for a membership cards and we show them. And my friend who had not fired a gun wasn’t sure if he wanted to so we told this guy/caretaker that he was not shooting. so we get to shooting and a little later my friend without the membership decided he wants to shoot. so we figure as are guest he could shoot and it wouldn’t be a big deal we load up a pistol my friend pulls the trigger misses his target and we go to get a rifle for him to shoot just then this caretaker comes up at us with a brisk face and gets in my friends face and yells at him calls him a lair and tells him he cant shoot or we will get are memberships canceled. Keep in mind we have 3 members 1 spectator and my friend who was the firearms virgin. we heed the mans warning and continued to shoot well we were practicing for 3 gun and me an anther friend were having shooting matches agenst each other all the while this caretaker and by now anther guy had arrived and they were mowing the grass (which didn’t need to me mowed) all the while we were there and this guy was starting to look at us very annoyed like and we all got the feeling we weren’t welcome there anymore. So me and my other two friends who are members decided we won’t go there anymore. Which brings me to my big question is there anyplace I can go and get some practical/tactical shooting to gear up for a 3 gun style competition? This place i used to was great because you would get there and be by yourself and no one would bug you until now. so I need a good place to go in the fox valley area. Any suggestions? |
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Quoted:
Well this happened a couple of weeks ago already but i was just sitting here and it this really started to grind my gears again. I live in New London(its 20 minutes west and a bit north of the fox valley) and for years every time I wanted to put some lead downrange I went to the New London Fish and Game Club. Which specialized in trap shooting and they have a bow range. And for the first time this year I was out there and the guy informed me that I needed to buy a membership for the low price of 10 bucks to use all the ranges. So me and my friends fork over the money to have the convenience of shooting just outside of town without havening to drive very far. Until a couple of weeks ago when my one of my friends informed us that he had never fired a gun before. And as far as I’m concerned firing a gun is like a right of passage into manhood. So I figure I will invite him out to the range with us so he could fire a handgun and a rifle well we get down there and this guy walks up and asks us for a membership cards and we show them. And my friend who had not fired a gun wasn’t sure if he wanted to so we told this guy/caretaker that he was not shooting. so we get to shooting and a little later my friend without the membership decided he wants to shoot. so we figure as are guest he could shoot and it wouldn’t be a big deal we load up a pistol my friend pulls the trigger misses his target and we go to get a rifle for him to shoot just then this caretaker comes up at us with a brisk face and gets in my friends face and yells at him calls him a lair and tells him he cant shoot or we will get are memberships canceled. Keep in mind we have 3 members 1 spectator and my friend who was the firearms virgin. we heed the mans warning and continued to shoot well we were practicing for 3 gun and me an anther friend were having shooting matches agenst each other all the while this caretaker and by now anther guy had arrived and they were mowing the grass (which didn’t need to me mowed) all the while we were there and this guy was starting to look at us very annoyed like and we all got the feeling we weren’t welcome there anymore. So me and my other two friends who are members decided we won’t go there anymore. Which brings me to my big question is there anyplace I can go and get some practical/tactical shooting to gear up for a 3 gun style competition? This place i used to was great because you would get there and be by yourself and no one would bug you until now. so I need a good place to go in the fox valley area. Any suggestions? Why not find out who runs the place and complain AND get a rule book to see what is legal or not legal as a member. They should as a club with members have bylaws, and have a published copy. |
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Welcome to the land of Fuds... Your experience is not a rare one... Most of these "clubs" are ran by Fuds who Shoot trap and drink beer and shoot a deer rifle a few times a year... They don't like fast shooting, they don't like anything that is not like what they do and they feel they have a right to bust our chops over it as the "senior" member of the clubs. If you fire more then one rd in one second(even if there all in fist size group at 10 yds) they will freak, run over and tell you that your shooting too fast.... they don't understand why you have a holster and why your drawing and if your wearing any gear, there first thought is "Why" you training for a war".
and there the first one to throw you under the bus to protect there club and there way of shooting.... They make the rules and enforce them as they see fit, and if you don't like it.. tough shit.. move on to another club.... So here's a few tips from your ole Uncle Harv... - This is the wrong time of year to gear up and shoot, the Fuds, much like bears in hibernation start to come to the range in force... cause there gearing up for deer season... The key is to hit the ranges at those times of the year when there not going to come to the range.. like from the end of November on.. if it's cold,wet or raining, they will not be out, It's football season, so they will be inside drinking beer and eating, and telling lies about what they know about shooting... - Find a club you like at a location and price that is adequate that has some action of IDPA shooters. There like minded and help to put up a barrier against Fuds. Don't come out with a large group, yourself and maybe one like minded shooter... pick an off time and do your think, but make sure you are above reproach in everything you do, safety and gun handling skills need to be solid, Don't zip thru a magazine if you can't control every rd.. tearing up berms and the ground in front of the target will skyline you to the Fuds (As you found out) -If your going to take a new shooter shooting,then do it one on one.. focus on him or her and make sure they can do it safely. Teach them the 4 rules. Remember, every guys thinks there a good shooter and instructor to boot, sad fact is few are and you may not be either. Decide if you have the skill to do it and don't let ego play into it. If you can demonstrate safe shooting to a new shooter, then give them 100% of your attention and stick to basics. Don't have them shooting on the move thru barrels while dodging barrels there first time out. Crawl,walk run... over time as there skill builds, then introduce them to more. I personally stop going to the range about now and resume again after the silly season and then I have the range to myself all winter and into spring.. I like shooting alone and I like having the range to myself, but that's just me... Go to Wisconsinshooters.com and look at the calender for events and also clubs that are a more then a "Good ole boy" trap club. there are quite a few and worth the drive. just my $.02 |
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Quoted:
Welcome to the land of Fuds... Your experience is not a rare one... Most of these "clubs" are ran by Fuds who Shoot trap and drink beer and shoot a deer rifle a few times a year... They don't like fast shooting, they don't like anything that is not like what they do and they feel they have a right to bust our chops over it as the "senior" member of the clubs. If you fire more then one rd in one second(even if there all in fist size group at 10 yds) they will freak, run over and tell you that your shooting too fast.... they don't understand why you have a holster and why your drawing and if your wearing any gear, there first thought is "Why" you training for a war". and there the first one to throw you under the bus to protect there club and there way of shooting.... They make the rules and enforce them as they see fit, and if you don't like it.. tough shit.. move on to another club.... So here's a few tips from your ole Uncle Harv... - This is the wrong time of year to gear up and shoot, the Fuds, much like bears in hibernation start to come to the range in force... cause there gearing up for deer season... The key is to hit the ranges at those times of the year when there not going to come to the range.. like from the end of November on.. if it's cold,wet or raining, they will not be out, It's football season, so they will be inside drinking beer and eating, and telling lies about what they know about shooting... - Find a club you like at a location and price that is adequate that has some action of IDPA shooters. There like minded and help to put up a barrier against Fuds. Don't come out with a large group, yourself and maybe one like minded shooter... pick an off time and do your think, but make sure you are above reproach in everything you do, safety and gun handling skills need to be solid, Don't zip thru a magazine if you can't control every rd.. tearing up berms and the ground in front of the target will skyline you to the Fuds (As you found out) -If your going to take a new shooter shooting,then do it one on one.. focus on him or her and make sure they can do it safely. Teach them the 4 rules. Remember, every guys thinks there a good shooter and instructor to boot, sad fact is few are and you may not be either. Decide if you have the skill to do it and don't let ego play into it. If you can demonstrate safe shooting to a new shooter, then give them 100% of your attention and stick to basics. Don't have them shooting on the move thru barrels while dodging barrels there first time out. Crawl,walk run... over time as there skill builds, then introduce them to more. I personally stop going to the range about now and resume again after the silly season and then I have the range to myself all winter and into spring.. I like shooting alone and I like having the range to myself, but that's just me... Go to Wisconsinshooters.com and look at the calender for events and also clubs that are a more then a "Good ole boy" trap club. there are quite a few and worth the drive. just my $.02 Words of wisdom there. I get the same crap at the range at least ten times a year about how an AR is just a plastic "toy" and real men shoot iron and wood. If you are planning on staying with that club, go to the club meetings, get your friends to join and get one of you on the board. Start trying to sponsor 3-gun matches, eventually things will get better. Don't let the range nazi's get you down. 
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RCLRC allows full-auto.
Schultz... hell, half the weekends you can't use the range because they're always shooting USPSA, IDPA there. One action bay is not behind the rifle berms, and you can drag the props around and replicate stages during normal range hours. The only downside is other than bowling pin shoots, I know of nowhere you can shoot buckshot to practice for 3-gun. |
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Shawano Gun Club is 45 bucks a year for a family memberships and hours are pretty much sun up to sundown and you get a key and most day's your there by yourself..
O yeah and you can bring a guest and they can shoot for free! One guest per membership per day.. Check us out on facebook or Pm me for more Info. http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Shawano-Gun-Club-Inc/114068235278940?ref=ts |
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Quoted:
Why not find out who runs the place and complain AND get a rule book to see what is legal or not legal as a member. They should as a club with members have bylaws, and have a published copy. the problem is that i think that guy is high up in the club so ther is no point in that route. plus i feel no reason to go back there with the way my firend was treated right from the start. the guy probally seen 5 20 something guys and thought nothing but trouble. but im sorry most of us have jobs which dont permit us to join in his drinking i mean trap shooting. so i will go and shoot elsewhere Quoted:
Welcome to the land of Fuds... Your experience is not a rare one... Most of these "clubs" are ran by Fuds who Shoot trap and drink beer and shoot a deer rifle a few times a year... They don't like fast shooting, they don't like anything that is not like what they do and they feel they have a right to bust our chops over it as the "senior" member of the clubs. If you fire more then one rd in one second(even if there all in fist size group at 10 yds) they will freak, run over and tell you that your shooting too fast.... they don't understand why you have a holster and why your drawing and if your wearing any gear, there first thought is "Why" you training for a war". and there the first one to throw you under the bus to protect there club and there way of shooting.... They make the rules and enforce them as they see fit, and if you don't like it.. tough shit.. move on to another club.... So here's a few tips from your ole Uncle Harv... - This is the wrong time of year to gear up and shoot, the Fuds, much like bears in hibernation start to come to the range in force... cause there gearing up for deer season... The key is to hit the ranges at those times of the year when there not going to come to the range.. like from the end of November on.. if it's cold,wet or raining, they will not be out, It's football season, so they will be inside drinking beer and eating, and telling lies about what they know about shooting... - Find a club you like at a location and price that is adequate that has some action of IDPA shooters. There like minded and help to put up a barrier against Fuds. Don't come out with a large group, yourself and maybe one like minded shooter... pick an off time and do your think, but make sure you are above reproach in everything you do, safety and gun handling skills need to be solid, Don't zip thru a magazine if you can't control every rd.. tearing up berms and the ground in front of the target will skyline you to the Fuds (As you found out) -If your going to take a new shooter shooting,then do it one on one.. focus on him or her and make sure they can do it safely. Teach them the 4 rules. Remember, every guys thinks there a good shooter and instructor to boot, sad fact is few are and you may not be either. Decide if you have the skill to do it and don't let ego play into it. If you can demonstrate safe shooting to a new shooter, then give them 100% of your attention and stick to basics. Don't have them shooting on the move thru barrels while dodging barrels there first time out. Crawl,walk run... over time as there skill builds, then introduce them to more. I personally stop going to the range about now and resume again after the silly season and then I have the range to myself all winter and into spring.. I like shooting alone and I like having the range to myself, but that's just me... Go to Wisconsinshooters.com and look at the calender for events and also clubs that are a more then a "Good ole boy" trap club. there are quite a few and worth the drive. just my $.02 thanks for the advice as far as safty was concerred we wereextremely safe and made sure my friend knew all the saftey rules and knew how to operate the guns he fired. but thanks for theadvice i was just kinda of hopeing that the place where i got my start at shooting would have been alittle bit more friendly but what can you do. |
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Based on what the caretaker said, anyone shooting needs to be a member and pay $10. Your friend started shooting after stating he was just a spectator and after the caretaker walked away.
Now you're surprised/upset the caretaker came back yelling and calling you guys liars? |
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Based on what the caretaker said, anyone shooting needs to be a member and pay $10. Your friend started shooting after stating he was just a spectator and after the caretaker walked away. Now you're surprised/upset the caretaker came back yelling and calling you guys liars? Seems to me the "caretaker" could have been civil about it. Instead he chose to be an asshole and chase people away. Does this seem to be acceptable to you? My guess is that this "caretaker" is the kind of guy that hunts on public property in the same spot every year so he thinks HE and nobody else can hunt there, because HE has hunted there for 20 years. So in his mind it's his and he chases people off of HIS hunting land all the while being an asshole doing it. |
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After having been lied to your face, would you have been civil? I wasn't there, but according to the op he said, ...this guy walks up and asks us for a membership cards and we show them. And my friend who had not fired a gun wasn’t sure if he wanted to so we told this guy/caretaker that he was not shooting. so we get to shooting and a little later my friend without the membership decided he wants to shoot.
Sounds to me he was not sure he wanted to shoot. I don't think there was any malace meant here on the part of the op and his friends. Yes I would have been far more civil that this guy was. Leaps and bounds more civil. He didn't have to get in someones face and start yelling at them. There are far to many fuck heads in the shooting sports that ruin it for others and mainly for new commers. This is a prime example of such a fucktard. He potentially drove off a new shooter because. "How dare some punk ass kid lie to me. Supreme range commander!!" attitude. Should they have paid the $10 for him to shoot? Sure. But most normal individuals would would come to the conclusion that there is more than likely a guest policy. Would it have bee that hard for the guy to take a stroll down to tha line an say something to the effect of, "Hey I thought you guys said he wasn't going to shoot?" To wich I am sure they would have responded with a simple "he decided he was going to after all." Then followed by, "Well I need you guys to pay the $10 for him to shoot, it's the rules." Would that have been so hard? |
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So was the caretaker supposed to magically assume the guy wasn't sure about shooting????
"we told this guy/caretaker that he was not shooting" They lied to the caretaker and he got pissed at them. I would have kicked them off the range for lying to me. When the friend decided to start shooting, they should have manned up and paid the $10. I'm sure that along with the $10 most ranges also have a liability form that gets signed at membership time. At most private ranges these days, if you are caught shooting without a membership there aren't any more warnings given. The police are simply called. Ranges just can't take the liability. |
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So was the caretaker supposed to magically assume the guy wasn't sure about shooting???? "we told this guy/caretaker that he was not shooting" They lied to the caretaker and he got pissed at them. I would have kicked them off the range for lying to me. When the friend decided to start shooting, they should have manned up and paid the $10. I'm sure that along with the $10 most ranges also have a liability form that gets signed at membership time. At most private ranges these days, if you are caught shooting without a membership there aren't any more warnings given. The police are simply called. Ranges just can't take the liability. I've gotta side with WIDeerHunter on this one. I'd be embarrassed to have pulled these shenanigans. Their club, their rules. |
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So was the caretaker supposed to magically assume the guy wasn't sure about shooting???? "we told this guy/caretaker that he was not shooting" They lied to the caretaker and he got pissed at them. I would have kicked them off the range for lying to me. When the friend decided to start shooting, they should have manned up and paid the $10. I'm sure that along with the $10 most ranges also have a liability form that gets signed at membership time. At most private ranges these days, if you are caught shooting without a membership there aren't any more warnings given. The police are simply called. Ranges just can't take the liability. I've gotta side with WIDeerHunter on this one. I'd be embarrassed to have pulled these shenanigans. Their club, their rules. Well we will have to disagree. That's all. Call it what you want. |
| there was no liability forms to be filled out when i bought my membership. i know we are in the wrong my problem came up when this caretaker came up and was in my friends face. when there posted rules say nothing about bringing a guest(they make no mention for or against). my thoughts are that this same man would be thrilled to death that i had brought out a new comer on trap night so the guy could sit and shoot with the rest of the beer swallowing hunters. and i look at it acouple different ways. would this guy have come and gotten in the face of a club member who brought out there 15 year old son/daughter to shoot someone who may have less knowledge of gun safety but the same supervision. no i think not. i also can say for a fact that i have been out there many times with my wife. and other club members have stopped down to chat or bring there puppy down to break him of gun shyness and no one said a word. and i can guarantee you if that man would have come up to me or my wife and got in my face because she didn't have a membership like he did to my friend. i would have laid his ass out, the guy probably would have been on the ground with a broken nose. i guess the larger point to this is at no point were memberships ever offered for those who didn't have them. at no point was this caretaker civil to us from the get go. so why should i pay these people to use there range if I'm gonna be treated like this. there is no reason every time you spend money on anything your telling the people who your giving money to that it is OK to do when they are doing. I don't agree with the way this guy handled this situation so I'm going to stop going there to use the rifle range or to shoot trap. |
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I'm with Flamethrower on this one... Civility and a calm head are qualities that more folks should embrace... all that assholynes for what....$10??
It's not like these guys crawled under a locked gate at night and shot up the place... It goes back to my original response.. this "Supreme Range Nazi" fits the bill of your typical FUD to a tee.... Should they have ponied up the $10?? sure, lesson learned, but that should not have been the catalyst for Super Fud to initiate his launch sequence and get all medieval on them And Clay's example of the Father/Daughter scenario is a good one.... I bet that outcome would have went a tad bit different. Double standard... yup. treat others as you would like to be treated.... it's a lost art.... |
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treat others as you would like to be treated.... it's a lost art.... Amen to that! Personally I find the Fudd's mentality to be appalling. And there is a few of them at my home range. When I'm shooting and some roll up, they usually turn around and leave. The holier than thou crap I hear them spew is beyond reproach. I've actually had say I was a fool for actively persuading training. "I've been shooting since I was 9! I don't need any stinking training!" Thier tactical/defensive shooters are the one's who will "get their guns taken away" attitude is utter stupidity. The shooters who train are usually the more responsible shooters. The shooters who get drunk while shooting... well... 
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