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Posted: 9/2/2010 12:37:45 PM EDT
This cat at work was trying to tell me that it is illegal to hunt deer with a suppressor.
I was under the impression that it was completely legal.
Did something change this year?

He said: "This year's deer regulation says you can't use anything to muffle the shot in anyway."

He's kind of a Fudd.
He also tried to tell me it is illegal to hunt deer in WI with an AR-15.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 12:57:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By polymorpheous:
This cat at work was trying to tell me that it is illegal to hunt deer with a suppressor.
I was under the impression that it was completely legal.
Did something change this year?

He said: "This year's deer regulation says you can't use anything to muffle the shot in anyway."

He's kind of a Fudd.
He also tried to tell me it is illegal to hunt deer in WI with an AR-15.


http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/land/wildlife/regs/Deer10regs16-19.pdf



Nothing new on the website.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 1:25:12 PM EDT
That figures.
Fudds like to make up anything to put the AR-15 down.
In his world, the max you can hunt with a detachable box magazine is 10 rounds.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 1:44:36 PM EDT
I have emailed the DNR over and over again about this issue.
I have recieved replies that state that you can hunt with a suppressor, but they cannot wrap their head around the fact that people can legally posess a SBR.
I asked if it would be legal to hunt deer with a suppressed SBR and got the canned response that people cannot have SBR's but suppressors are legal.

The closest thing I have to a yes is a email from one of the DNR ladies saying I can hunt coyotes with my suppressed SBR.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 1:57:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By WI57:
I have emailed the DNR over and over again about this issue.
I have recieved replies that state that you can hunt with a suppressor, but they cannot wrap their head around the fact that people can legally posess a SBR.
I asked if it would be legal to hunt deer with a suppressed SBR and got the canned response that people cannot have SBR's but suppressors are legal.

The closest thing I have to a yes is a email from one of the DNR ladies saying I can hunt coyotes with my suppressed SBR.


good question...
would a SBR w/ a can attached be considered the OAL of the barrel?
or would it have to be fixed per BATF regulations?
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 5:54:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2010 5:54:50 PM EDT by sprayandpray]
Originally Posted By polymorpheous:
Originally Posted By WI57:
I have emailed the DNR over and over again about this issue.
I have recieved replies that state that you can hunt with a suppressor, but they cannot wrap their head around the fact that people can legally posess a SBR.
I asked if it would be legal to hunt deer with a suppressed SBR and got the canned response that people cannot have SBR's but suppressors are legal.

The closest thing I have to a yes is a email from one of the DNR ladies saying I can hunt coyotes with my suppressed SBR.


good question...
would a SBR w/ a can attached be considered the OAL of the barrel?
or would it have to be fixed per BATF regulations?


Fixed or it is a 2 stamp gun (1 for the can 1 for the SBR)
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 5:54:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WI57:
I have emailed the DNR over and over again about this issue.
I have recieved replies that state that you can hunt with a suppressor, but they cannot wrap their head around the fact that people can legally posess a SBR.
I asked if it would be legal to hunt deer with a suppressed SBR and got the canned response that people cannot have SBR's but suppressors are legal.

The closest thing I have to a yes is a email from one of the DNR ladies saying I can hunt coyotes with my suppressed SBR.

Why on earth would you ask if you can use a short barreled rifle, when the regulations clearly state that you cannot?

It is illegal to:
possess a rifle with a barrel length of less than 16 inches.
possess a rifle with an overall length of less than 26 inches.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 6:29:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 6:40:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dalesimpson:
Originally Posted By kingoftheroad:

Originally Posted By WI57:
I have emailed the DNR over and over again about this issue.
I have recieved replies that state that you can hunt with a suppressor, but they cannot wrap their head around the fact that people can legally posess a SBR.
I asked if it would be legal to hunt deer with a suppressed SBR and got the canned response that people cannot have SBR's but suppressors are legal.

The closest thing I have to a yes is a email from one of the DNR ladies saying I can hunt coyotes with my suppressed SBR.

Why on earth would you ask if you can use a short barreled rifle, when the regulations clearly state that you cannot?

It is illegal to:
possess a rifle with a barrel length of less than 16 inches.
possess a rifle with an overall length of less than 26 inches.


So by the DNR's logic I can be cited for owning an SBR even though I have a stamp? Or does it just mean that I can't hunt with an SBR?

Well the rules are in the hunting regulations...
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 7:42:10 PM EDT
You can hunt with a SBR. There's no "rule" against it. Any rule the DNR has is either state statute or administrative code. Go ahead and point to anything that says you can't hunt with a SBR, besides a SUMMARY pamphlet.

See the legal FAQ.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 2:50:58 AM EDT
I loath the days I come in contact with Ranger Ric. They can be a bit presumptuous, and quick to find fault. I would carry a copy of the letter with you for just such an occasion.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 3:44:23 AM EDT
You can legally hunt with anything other than a MG. I have hunted with a suppressed SBR for several years now. I have letters stating that both are ok. There is a specific admin code against hunting with MG's.

I always keep a laminated copy of the letter with me. Harder for some jackass to tear up.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 3:45:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By kingoftheroad:
Why on earth would you ask if you can use a short barreled rifle, when the regulations clearly state that you cannot?

It is illegal to:
possess a rifle with a barrel length of less than 16 inches.
possess a rifle with an overall length of less than 26 inches.


The hunting regulations booklet is a general GUIDE of the laws. They are correct in that it is typically illegal to possess those type of firearms. However, since it is a guide, it does not go into detail to state that it is legal if registered with NFA.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 12:04:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2010 12:06:34 PM EDT by kingoftheroad]

Originally Posted By glenn_r:
You can hunt with a SBR. There's no "rule" against it. Any rule the DNR has is either state statute or administrative code. Go ahead and point to anything that says you can't hunt with a SBR, besides a SUMMARY pamphlet.

See the legal FAQ.


Originally Posted By NAM:
Originally Posted By kingoftheroad:
Why on earth would you ask if you can use a short barreled rifle, when the regulations clearly state that you cannot?

It is illegal to:
possess a rifle with a barrel length of less than 16 inches.
possess a rifle with an overall length of less than 26 inches.


The hunting regulations booklet is a general GUIDE of the laws. They are correct in that it is typically illegal to possess those type of firearms. However, since it is a guide, it does not go into detail to state that it is legal if registered with NFA.
I do not have time to look this up right now, but are you guys also saying that I can use explosive or poison tipped arrows and boolits, and to ignore bag limits because they are just guidelines too?


ETA; I just thought, does this also mean I can shoot crows with a .22 and use FMJ on deer?
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 2:30:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By kingoftheroad:

Originally Posted By WI57:
I have emailed the DNR over and over again about this issue.
I have recieved replies that state that you can hunt with a suppressor, but they cannot wrap their head around the fact that people can legally posess a SBR.
I asked if it would be legal to hunt deer with a suppressed SBR and got the canned response that people cannot have SBR's but suppressors are legal.

The closest thing I have to a yes is a email from one of the DNR ladies saying I can hunt coyotes with my suppressed SBR.

Why on earth would you ask if you can use a short barreled rifle, when the regulations clearly state that you cannot?

It is illegal to:
possess a rifle with a barrel length of less than 16 inches.
possess a rifle with an overall length of less than 26 inches.


So I can put a pistol buffer on it and be good to go?
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 2:30:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sprayandpray:
Originally Posted By polymorpheous:
Originally Posted By WI57:
I have emailed the DNR over and over again about this issue.
I have recieved replies that state that you can hunt with a suppressor, but they cannot wrap their head around the fact that people can legally posess a SBR.
I asked if it would be legal to hunt deer with a suppressed SBR and got the canned response that people cannot have SBR's but suppressors are legal.

The closest thing I have to a yes is a email from one of the DNR ladies saying I can hunt coyotes with my suppressed SBR.


good question...
would a SBR w/ a can attached be considered the OAL of the barrel?
or would it have to be fixed per BATF regulations?


Fixed or it is a 2 stamp gun (1 for the can 1 for the SBR)


2 stamp gun.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 2:33:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2010 2:50:22 PM EDT by WI57]
Originally Posted By kingoftheroad:

Originally Posted By glenn_r:
You can hunt with a SBR. There's no "rule" against it. Any rule the DNR has is either state statute or administrative code. Go ahead and point to anything that says you can't hunt with a SBR, besides a SUMMARY pamphlet.

See the legal FAQ.


Originally Posted By NAM:
Originally Posted By kingoftheroad:
Why on earth would you ask if you can use a short barreled rifle, when the regulations clearly state that you cannot?

It is illegal to:
possess a rifle with a barrel length of less than 16 inches.
possess a rifle with an overall length of less than 26 inches.


The hunting regulations booklet is a general GUIDE of the laws. They are correct in that it is typically illegal to possess those type of firearms. However, since it is a guide, it does not go into detail to state that it is legal if registered with NFA.
I do not have time to look this up right now, but are you guys also saying that I can use explosive or poison tipped arrows and boolits, and to ignore bag limits because they are just guidelines too?


ETA; I just thought, does this also mean I can shoot crows with a .22 and use FMJ on deer?


Non expanding bullets are not allowed for deer hunting.
I have never hunted crows so I have no idea of the regs for that.
ETA- Just looked it up in the Regulations book and it says you can not hunt any birds with a rifle so the crow with the .22 is probably a no-go.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 5:38:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WI57

Non expanding bullets are not allowed for deer hunting.
I have never hunted crows so I have no idea of the regs for that.
ETA- Just looked it up in the Regulations book and it says you can not hunt any birds with a rifle so the crow with the .22 is probably a no-go.
So I am not sure if you are being totally serious, because I am only being 87% serious, but...

Just because it is in the regulations book, doesn't make it law, apparently.

Link Posted: 9/3/2010 6:26:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By kingoftheroad:

Originally Posted By WI57

Non expanding bullets are not allowed for deer hunting.
I have never hunted crows so I have no idea of the regs for that.
ETA- Just looked it up in the Regulations book and it says you can not hunt any birds with a rifle so the crow with the .22 is probably a no-go.
So I am not sure if you are being totally serious, because I am only being 87% serious, but...

Just because it is in the regulations book, doesn't make it law, apparently.



Sorry, I didnt mean to turn this into a DNR regulations pissing match.
I am simply conveying the information that I got from the DNR reguarding questions similar to the OP's question.
The regulation book is a guideline that breaks down the Wisconsin Statutes into terms most people can understand.
It is against the law to have an SBR, as shown by 941.28. But keep reading and you'll find the exemptions.
Others here have documented proof from the WI DNR saying its OK to hunt with a suppressor and a SBR.

From Wisconsin Statute 941.28:
(4) This section does not apply to the sale, purchase, possession,
use or transportation of a short−barreled shotgun or short−
barreled rifle to or by any armed forces or national guard personnel
in line of duty, any peace officer of the United States or of any
political subdivision of the United States or any person who has
complied with the licensing and registration requirements under
26 USC 5801 to 5872.
This section does not apply to the manufacture
of short−barreled shotguns or short−barreled rifles for any
person or group authorized to possess these weapons. The restriction
on transportation contained in this section does not apply to
common carriers. This section shall not apply to any firearm that
may be lawfully possessed under federal law, or any firearm that
could have been lawfully registered at the time of the enactment
of the national firearms act of 1968.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 6:34:58 PM EDT
I did read the Legal F&Qs a few minutes ago, I guess I learned something.
I was figuring on the regulations being 100%, and not just a suggestion as to rifle length. I wonder what else in there is 'just a suggestion'.

FWIW, I am not against it, just wondered how it could be done legally.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:33:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By NAM:
You can legally hunt with anything other than a MG. I have hunted with a suppressed SBR for several years now. I have letters stating that both are ok. There is a specific admin code against hunting with MG's.

I always keep a laminated copy of the letter with me. Harder for some jackass to tear up.


NAM, who is the author of the letter you have? And can you scan it and post it on here or Email it to me? I'm not doubting you, I would like to have a copy as I Emailed Mike Lutz, who is suppsed to be the DNR's legal council abotu a month ago on this very matter and have not received a response yet.

Link Posted: 9/3/2010 9:23:33 PM EDT
I sure can, but it till have to wait a few days. Starting a roofing project in the AM, but should be able to on Monday or tues.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 12:47:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2010 2:18:57 PM EDT by Interceptor_Knight]

The little paper book is for those too lazy to look up the Administrative Code and WI Statutes. It covers the DNR's ass so that you can not claim ignorance when they fine you....
There is nothing prohibiting the use of a SBR for hunting, therefore it is legal... There is nothing prohibiting the use of a suppressor therefore it is legal.
Please reference the actual Code... http://www.legis.state.wi.us/rsb/code/nr/nr010.pdf
And the Statutes... http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=137
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 12:49:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By kingoftheroad:
I was figuring on the regulations being 100%, and not just a suggestion as to rifle length. I wonder what else in there is 'just a suggestion'.

FWIW, I am not against it, just wondered how it could be done legally.

The paper book is not a list of actual Statutes or Code.... There is no Code or Statute prohibiting it. That is how it can be done legally...

Link Posted: 9/4/2010 12:52:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2010 3:05:37 PM EDT by Interceptor_Knight]
Originally Posted By kingoftheroad:
]I do not have time to look this up right now, but are you guys also saying that I can use explosive or poison tipped arrows and boolits, and to ignore bag limits because they are just guidelines too


ETA; I just thought, does this also mean I can shoot crows with a .22 and use FMJ on deer?


Only if you enjoy suprise prison buttsex and/or fines....

There are actual Statutes and/or Administrative code prohibiting everything which you just listed ...

NR 10.09 Guns, ammunition and other devices.

(1) PROHIBITED METHODS. No person shall:
(b) Incendiary shells. Possess or have in control, while hunting,
any shell, cartridge or ammunition known as tracer shells, or
incendiary shells or cartridges. Distress flares are exempt from
this section.
(c) Guns and devices
2. ‘Deer or bear hunting.’ Hunt any deer or bear with any air
rifle, rim−fire rifle, any center−fire rifle less than .22 caliber, any
.410 bore or less shotgun or with ammunition loaded with nonexpanding
type bullets.
3. ‘Game bird hunting.’ a. Hunt any game bird with a rifle
or shotgun loaded with single ball, pellet, BB or slug or shot larger
than no. BB.
(3) BOWS AND ARROWS. No person may:
(b) Special restrictions. Use, possess or have under control
while hunting, any poisoned or drugged arrow, arrow with explosive
tips or any crossbow unless the crossbow is authorized under
sub. (1) (c) 1. e.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 1:00:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2010 1:04:29 PM EDT by Interceptor_Knight]
Here is the kicker.... Even though some things are called out as prohibited, there is Administrative Enforcement policy listed in the little Paper "rule" book which gives exceptions. 1 example is that a land owner may target practice on his/her own land the day preceeding the 9 day deer hunt. There is no exception listed for this in the Code.
It is illegal to:
• possess any firearm from 12:00 midnight–11:59 p.m. on November 19, 2010 unless
the firearm is unloaded and enclosed within a carrying case. Exceptions: target
shooting at established target ranges, target shooting on private lands by landowners
and immediate family members who live with them
, waterfowl hunting during
open season, hunting game birds on licensed bird hunting preserves, and hunting
turkeys and small game in CWD Management Zone units.

http://dnr.wi.gov/org/land/wildlife/regs/Deer10.pdf
.
.
Actual Code.... No exception for land owners listed
.
..
(2) SPECIAL ONE−DAY RESTRICTION. During the 24−hour period
prior to the opening date for the regular gun deer season established
in s. NR 10.01 (3) (e) 1. a., b. and 5., no person may possess
a gun wherein there is an open season for deer with guns specified
in s. NR 10.01 (3) (e), unless the gun is unloaded and enclosed
within a carrying case. Exceptions:
(a) Target shooting at established ranges.
(b) Hunting on licensed game farms and shooting preserves.
(c) Hunting waterfowl during the open season.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 4:43:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Interceptor_Knight:
Here is the kicker.... Even though some things are called out as prohibited, there is Administrative Enforcement policy listed in the little Paper "rule" book which gives exceptions. 1 example is that a land owner may target practice on his/her own land the day preceeding the 9 day deer hunt. There is no exception listed for this in the Code.
It is illegal to:
• possess any firearm from 12:00 midnight–11:59 p.m. on November 19, 2010 unless
the firearm is unloaded and enclosed within a carrying case. Exceptions: target
shooting at established target ranges, target shooting on private lands by landowners
and immediate family members who live with them
, waterfowl hunting during
open season, hunting game birds on licensed bird hunting preserves, and hunting
turkeys and small game in CWD Management Zone units.

http://dnr.wi.gov/org/land/wildlife/regs/Deer10.pdf
.
.
Actual Code.... No exception for land owners listed
.
..
(2) SPECIAL ONE−DAY RESTRICTION. During the 24−hour period
prior to the opening date for the regular gun deer season established
in s. NR 10.01 (3) (e) 1. a., b. and 5., no person may possess
a gun wherein there is an open season for deer with guns specified
in s. NR 10.01 (3) (e), unless the gun is unloaded and enclosed
within a carrying case. Exceptions:
(a) Target shooting at established ranges.
(b) Hunting on licensed game farms and shooting preserves.
(c) Hunting waterfowl during the open season.


So a warden with a grudge could actually fine you since its technically against the law, buit the DNR "rule book" says its ok?
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 4:51:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By WI57:
So a warden with a grudge could actually fine you since its technically against the law, buit the DNR "rule book" says its ok?

No, A Warden may only cite you....
NR10 is Administrative Code maintained by the DNR with limited input by the WI legislature. The fact that the DNR has published several years in a row in their "Regulations" that a landowner may shoot on his/her own land as well as immediate family living with them means that a court would not find you guilty of the violation and the DNR Warden would look like an ass in the eyes of his/her peers...
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 6:11:58 PM EDT
the DNR Warden would look like an ass in the eyes of his/her peers...

I think they have got that down pat already.
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 6:42:12 AM EDT
Here is the SBR email I received. (personal info removed)

Link Posted: 9/9/2010 6:53:57 AM EDT
Silencer letter (her email client fooked the formatting)

Link Posted: 9/9/2010 11:20:16 AM EDT
Thank you.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 5:53:25 PM EDT
What this thread tells me.... How laws are so complicated and written so ambiguous, that the majority of LEO's who are tasked with enforcing them can be easily confused and may not know the rules to the letter of the stature it is written it.... That's what more Gov gets you...


sad...

Good read on the letter.. thanks for posting it NAM...
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 7:28:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By NAM:
Here is the SBR email I received. (personal info removed)

http://i51.tinypic.com/902kco.jpg


There is so much wrong with this, I don't even know where to start...not about the SBR hunting though...funny how she got that right...

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