Posted: 8/25/2009 2:31:48 PM EDT
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So if I sell a handgun to a fellow Wisconsinite:
Get their info from a WI drivers license. Have them sign a receipt (one copy for you and one for him/her). Have them sign a statement, close to the following: I am not nor Have I: * Been a felon * Committed a felony as a juvenile * Been found not guilty of a felony by reason of mental disease or defect * Been committed under mental health laws & ordered not to possess a firearm * Been the subject of a domestic abuse or child abuse restraining order * Been ordered not to possess firearms as a subject of a harassment restraining order Anything else? Thanks V OUT |
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That's what I do, though for their privacy concerns I only record their name and driver's license number (not address or date of birth). If the police ever need more for an investigation, they can get it all from the DL#.
I also add a statement to the effect that I am the legal owner of the pistol I'm selling, and am selling the pistol unencumbered of debts or obligations, or something like that. |
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Quoted:
So if I sell a handgun to a fellow Wisconsinite: Get their info from a WI drivers license. Have them sign a receipt (one copy for you and one for him/her). Have them sign a statement, close to the following: I am not nor Have I: * Been a felon * Committed a felony as a juvenile * Been found not guilty of a felony by reason of mental disease or defect * Been committed under mental health laws & ordered not to possess a firearm * Been the subject of a domestic abuse or child abuse restraining order * Been ordered not to possess firearms as a subject of a harassment restraining order Anything else? Thanks V OUT I already know I wouldn't want to buy your pistol |
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Quoted:
So if I sell a handgun to a fellow Wisconsinite: Get their info from a WI drivers license. Have them sign a receipt (one copy for you and one for him/her). Have them sign a statement, close to the following: I am not nor Have I: * Been a felon * Committed a felony as a juvenile * Been found not guilty of a felony by reason of mental disease or defect * Been committed under mental health laws & ordered not to possess a firearm * Been the subject of a domestic abuse or child abuse restraining order * Been ordered not to possess firearms as a subject of a harassment restraining order Anything else? Thanks V OUT I already know I wouldn't want to buy your pistol I completely agree. I will show you my DL so you can see I'm a WI resident and give you a verbal statement that I'm not a felon and can legally possess a firearm, and that's it. The whole point I do FTF is to not have a paper trail. I have enough guns on 4473s. I see no point in going further than what is required by law, and by law you aren't required to have any more than I'm willing to give you. Obviously it's up to you to decide what you need in order to feel comfortable with the transaction, just know you might lose a sale if you go too far. |
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I think what folks are saying is that it could be a whole lot less complicated than the process you posted, V.
The last time I sold a gun at a gunshow, I asked two questions: 1) Are you a WI resident? 2) Are you now or have you ever been a convicted felon or wife beater? An affirmative answer to #1 and a negative answer to #2 + some cash was all that I really needed. In the past, when transferring to an OOS resident through an FFL, I've done what you posted for my records. "I sold it at a gunshow to an eligible WI resident" should be all that is required to absolve you of responsibility/liability if it ever comes down to it. |
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V,
I should have mentioned that your process––and mine––may go beyond the legal minimum required. I record DL# because if the gun is ever used in a crime, the sooner the police know I'm not involved, the happier I am. Saying something like, "I sold that, but I don't know who I sold it to" is not a violation of the law, but will probably result in additional investigation by the police in an attempt to either prove––or disprove––your claim. I find it easier to record limited information about the buyer. If the buyer sells the weapon to their drug-addicted gang member neighbor, any crime involvement of the weapon becomes their problem, not mine. Having a signed bill of sale may also help in any civil proceedings that result from future misuse of the gun. Yes, this process is more than legally required, and some of you won't buy a handgun (or rifle, or shotgun) from me. But a slight decrease in the pool of buyers is more than offset by my peace of mind. YMMV, of course. 
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Quoted:
V, I should have mentioned that your process––and mine––may go beyond the legal minimum required. I record DL# because if the gun is ever used in a crime, the sooner the police know I'm not involved, the happier I am. Saying something like, "I sold that, but I don't know who I sold it to" is not a violation of the law, but will probably result in additional investigation by the police in an attempt to either prove––or disprove––your claim. I find it easier to record limited information about the buyer. If the buyer sells the weapon to their drug-addicted gang member neighbor, any crime involvement of the weapon becomes their problem, not mine. Having a signed bill of sale may also help in any civil proceedings that result from future misuse of the gun. Yes, this process is more than legally required, and some of you won't buy a handgun (or rifle, or shotgun) from me. But a slight decrease in the pool of buyers is more than offset by my peace of mind. YMMV, of course. Yes, finally a resident (WI drivers license and all). Actually on the WI FAQ, my first post expressed the minimum (verified WI resident and ensurance of the "I am not, nor have I been situations"). The receipt is the only addition for my sake. I'd have to agree with glenn_r if I am interpreting the laws incorrectly. Besides, a paper trail has nothing to do with it. My buddy's brother in-law had a pretty extensive black rifle collection. He sold it to my buddy for cash when he was under the gun for a past domestic violence conviction. Upon investigation, he was never convicted so he was able to own the firearms. When my buddy would not sell them back, the brother in law threatened legal action. My buddy's lawyer stated he would have been better off having proof of the sale, like a cashed check, receipt, etc. I appreciate all the info. Thanks V OUT |
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I don't have a problem with signing a paper receipt or showing my WI driver's license, but I do have a problem with giving out my driver's license number. Your driver's license number can be used to open certain lines of credit if you don't have a SS # (e.g. resident aliens) or if you don't want to give out your SS #. With identity theft becoming so prevalent, I don't want to give my driver's license number out to anyone I don't know. Even if the person selling the gun doesn't have any bad intentions, there is no telling how safely they store the information or how they dispose of it.
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Quoted:
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So if I sell a handgun to a fellow Wisconsinite: Get their info from a WI drivers license. Have them sign a receipt (one copy for you and one for him/her). Have them sign a statement, close to the following: I am not nor Have I: * Been a felon * Committed a felony as a juvenile * Been found not guilty of a felony by reason of mental disease or defect * Been committed under mental health laws & ordered not to possess a firearm * Been the subject of a domestic abuse or child abuse restraining order * Been ordered not to possess firearms as a subject of a harassment restraining order Anything else? Thanks V OUT I already know I wouldn't want to buy your pistol Ditto, Why should I give you my personal info???????????? |
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CYA for the seller. If the gun turns up anywhere the gun shouldn't be the police will start following the trail and see where it ended up last. As a seller I would never want to be stuck holding the bag for someone else...especially someone I don't know and refuses to give me his name. This may even create a legal problem for the seller. You can sell a gun to a private party as long as you have no reason to believe that buyer isn't eligible to own a firearm. So a jury will hear that you didn't reasonally believe the buyer wasn't eligible, but then your defense really goes down hill when it's revealed you never bothered to get the guy's name. CYA people, CYA.
I sold a car to a private party through the classifieds once. The guy never bothered to register it and a few months later abandoned it in another city (it was an old beater). The police got my info off the VIN as the last registered owner and started hounding me about the car. Luckly I kept the buyer's info and was able to 'pass the heat' to the deserving party. |
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I would record a name (assuming they are a WI resident) and get a verbal "I am not a convicted felon and can legally posess a firearm" from someone and call it a day.
Asking about mental health history and such is a bit over the line I think. Just remember you dont have to be the state. |
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I'm in the process of establishing residency up here, too (orig from Chgo area).
My Dad, who lives near DePere says that you have to wait 90 days AFTER you change your DL, etc before you can buy a gun in WI. Is this true ? Does it apply to retail sales only or does it also include FTF sales ??? CKMorley |
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I have never heard of this, you just need to prove residency and get your WI DL, then all should be good.
I could be wrong, but I am completely unaware of any 90 day "wait". A valid WI DL with WI address should be all you require... but there may be a catch that I am not aware of. |
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I'm in the process of establishing residency up here, too (orig from Chgo area). My Dad, who lives near DePere says that you have to wait 90 days AFTER you change your DL, etc before you can buy a gun in WI. Is this true ? Does it apply to retail sales only or does it also include FTF sales ??? CKMorley You can go right from the DMV to the gun store. 90 day proof of residency applies to immigrants...from other countries, not other states. |
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I'm in the process of establishing residency up here, too (orig from Chgo area). My Dad, who lives near DePere says that you have to wait 90 days AFTER you change your DL, etc before you can buy a gun in WI. Is this true ? Does it apply to retail sales only or does it also include FTF sales ??? CKMorley You can go right from the DMV to the gun store. 90 day proof of residency applies to immigrants...from other countries, not other states. Thanks for the info guys :-) ckmorley (gun rights refugee from Illannoy  )
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