Posted: 2/28/2008 9:55:27 PM EDT
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I had the pleasure of watching a movie at the Majestic (downtown Madison) entitled as such and was wondering what the WI hive mind thought about the "feral cat issue." The movie was surprisingly objective, presenting both sides of the issue quite well, but for some reason it seemed like the Q&A following the movie was full of ill informed libtards...go figure.  I did my best to shoot apart all the crap that implied "if you open a season on cats you should open a season on people," but I feel that due to general ignorance I failed to convey a semblance of logic in the general audience's thought process...Anyway, I'm currently in the middle of doing a human dimensions snail mail survey on feral cats in Dane county and was just curious to know how many of you were in favor of listing them as an unprotected species (i.e. open season; shoot anything without a collar). Granted, asking ar15.com may be a bit biased, but I'm just looking for some input. Thanks. DD |
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When I stayed with my aunte for a year at her northern Victoria (Australia) ranch, we used to just shoot feral cats. No outcry, no protest, no fuss and no muss. We also used rabbits and feral pigs as moving targets. Personally I have no issue with shooting feral cats. If people cared that much about their pet cats, they'd either keep them indoors or use a freaking leash and get them fixed. |
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yeah, I think killing feral cats is fine...but I can see where some people might be coming from when fifi/tiger/snickerdoodle gets mistaken because the cat is orange and the owner put an orange collar on the damn thing. I mean, you got people who shoot at tree branches thinking they are deer, and that guy who mistook a wolf for a coyote. and collars are small. like I said, I have no problem with it, but I wouldn't expect it to stay around after a few house cats get wacked accidentally. |
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Unless the feral cats are causing harm in the environment in which they live - what purpose is there to shooting them? Just to kill them for no reason? Personally (my belief) if you can't eat it, and it doesn't cause any harm - what's the point in killing it? Does the discussion go on to include wild dogs at any point? I guess I'm just not understanding the need to shoot them. Dean |
Wild dogs kill for food. Cats are the only other animal besides humans that kills for fun. |
City guy? Feral cars are predators. They have a definite impact on songbirds, pheasants, quail, etc. And they provide no benefit to the environment, unless you count dirty kitty prints across the hood of your car a benefit. -Bad for wildbirds -Abandoned by their owners -No upside Pretty easy equation to me. Feral car = SSS. |
They do cause harm. They climb trees and eat eggs or live young of native birds. They are an invasive predator and not good for the local environment. They are also very good at producing offspring. -JTP |
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I know the person that proposed the question in the first place. He is a trapper and so am I. His intent was to make it so that if a cat gets into a trappers trap they would not be charged with animal cruelty. Feral cats kill millions of small animals and birds every year they are wreaking havoc on our eco system, Wisconsin used to have a good population of quail, rabbits and other small animals that are in a big decline and I am sure that feral cats are part of the reason. I have no problem with cats. My problem is with the owners that throw the cat outside and think nothign of leaving them outside to kill for fun and then get upset when something happens to the precious cat. If it was so precious tot hem they would have taken better care of them in the first place. |
Do you have and facts to back up your satements? I have not seen and of the little birdies put on the endangered species list as of late. Some people let them out for a purpose. Ever been at a farm? My guess not. When mice, rats, moles, starlings, etc. Cats are the right solution. Please show me this cujo cat stuff where they kill for fun. I have friends that have grayhounds. They regularly kill rabbits and squirrels and don't eat them. Maybe we should call them ferral and shoot them. I have not seen a cat yet that did not eat what they killed. |
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Ok FlameThrower I hate to do this but check out this website it is a pro-cat website. Looks under myths of hungry cats hunt better. I know you like cats and respect your ability to own them. However owners that put their cats out all night every night are not responsible owners (the same as dog owners that throw a dog out on a chain to live out it's life at the end of a 10' chain). The fact remains that cats are much more efficient predators than dogs. Another fact is that most humane societys will not come out and pick up a stray cat like they do a dog. Combine the two facts and you have a recipe for overpopulation of stray cats that will eat their way thru the local bird population. ETA: if hunting feral cats became legal would I hunt them, probably not. Would I have a problem with someone shooting a known feral cat (not someones pet that strayed one time but a actual feral cat)? not at all. Bottom line; keep your pets contained, either cats or dogs, and you will not have a problem. |
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Below are a few sources and many more are available all you have to do is look. and I did grow up on a dairy farm so your little shot about that is way off base. http://sandhill.typepad.com/sandhill_trek/2005/03/wisconsin_feral.html http://wildlife.wisc.edu/extension/catfly3.htm http://www.fs.fed.us/psw/publications/4251/ogan1.PDF http://www.owra.org/cateffect.htm |
First it was not a shot. It was an assumption, it happened to be wrong. If I take a shot I don't miss and you will know it. That said then great, than you know the value of cats on a farm. I have no problem looking at your links and I will.
I am not sure what you are sorry for. This is all information I had already known. I think the page was set up for the 3rd grade school teacher to teach a class. Fact is cats help to keep the mice and rats out of livestock feed. Personally I could not care less if a farm cat kills a few extra birds for fun. I find it amusing how people will think I'm on one side or another without really knowing what side I am on. On the farm when the cats overpopulate they are dealt with. Do I like it no. Do I have to do it? No. It is done for a reason. I understand that. Here is my stance since everyone has already drawn their conclusions. KEEP IN MIND THIS IS NOT DIRECTED AT ANY ONE INDIVIDUAL. IF YOU FEEL THAT THIS IS DIRECTED AT YOU (THE INDIVIDUAL READER) I HAVE THIS TO SAY. IF THE SHOE FITS.... I have 5 cats. They are my family. I am sick and tired of the absolute bullshit of men and women that think I am less of a man because I own cats. Also somehow in today's society people feel that dogs are more important than cats lives in general. You know that baseball, mom, apple pie, and fido bullshit people cram down your throat constantly. Tell me why people look at me and other multiple cat owners like we are all crazy fucking cat people because we have more than one cat. But, it's ok for someone to own 10 fucking dogs, because it's a mans best friend, and it's mom and apple pie.... To those people that think that way I say go fuck yourselves. If you cannot respect that I have a happy CLEAN home with more than one cat, than I don't need you as a friend. If feral cats, and I mean FERAL cats need to be taken care of because of legitimate reasons I say fine have at it. This is just opening the door to any redneck shithead with a rifle to put down the neighbors cat because it got out once or twice and shit on your lawn or ate or killed a bird. You know this will happen, so don't try and bullshit out of it. Every cat hating asshole will be out there shooting every cat just because he can. These are the same fuck sticks that swerve in the road to run over any animal they can. Don't blow smoke up my ass and tell me I am over reacting. Like I said if FERAL cats need to be dealt with then fine. As soon as one shithead kills the neighbors cat because he can, I say it's open season on dogs that get out or get loose. A hunting dog that comes on my property and does some damage, hammer that fucker. Of course I am not some cruel son of a bitch that would make and innocent life pay for the mistake of it's shit head owners. I say were there is truly a problem with feral cats. Have a number of special trained groups of people that that have had a psych eval done, go out to those areas and deal with the problem. Giving the general public the ability to distinguish between a feral cat and a pet cat would be stupid. For shits sake the average hunting moron can't tell the difference between an elk and a deer, or a deer and a cow, or a coyote and a wolf. You think Joe alcoholic hunter is going to know the difference between a house cat and a feral cat? You nuts. So there you have it. Just like anything if there is a problem that needs to be dealt with, then deal with it. It does not mean I want to hear about it or see it. I certainly don't want to be regaled with the tails of your cat hunt. I bet you didn't see that coming. I apologize if my language has offended anyone. Todd edited for spelling and grammar. |
Finally found the thread. Brother, you know I love you, but you are as wrong as two boys French kissing on this one.
Yet, they were correct:
I'll give the rant an 8 of 10. Brother, your cats are cool. You're not too weird for being a "cat guy".  What I think you might be missing, is that there is a huge difference between the urban housecat that kills some songbirds for fun at the backyard feeder, the working farmcat that catches the occasional dove in the barn, and a colony of feral cats that kill both to feed themselves, and to satisfy some unique-to-cats-and-humans urge to hunt for sport. It is the latter that takes an incredible toll on songbirds, migratory and non-migratory gamebirds, as well as small game. The former two aren't near the same problem, but they sometimes exhibit very similar behavior. It is just as unacceptable.
You are overreacting, and you need to get over it. If another person’s untagged animal is trespassing, it’s fair game, collar or not. This is coming from a friend you know, who loves animals, and would put his vehicle in a ditch rather than tag a damn squirrel on the road*.
Your comparison to dogs is spurious. I fully expect my two licensed and collared dogs to be shot on sight if they get off my property and start running game or livestock. I would accept this as MY responsibility. While I may not do the same for a neighbor's dog (I'm a bit of a K9 softie), I recognize their right to deal with a trespassing piece of my nuisance property when it strays on to theirs. As a responsible pet owner, this is the ONLY position to take.
So you are advocating Government-funded, duly licensed and trained, roving, contract cat-killer death squads? Did you vote for Obama in the primary, too?  W T F bro? A property owner humanely culling feral/nuisance animals on his own property when necessary without fear of running afoul of the animal cruelty laws =/= “Joe alcoholic hunter”.
As your friend, someone who cares for his own pets, recognizes your personal commitment to your pets, and who would never wish harm on an animal that wasn’t meant for the table: Your attitude sucks, and you seem to want to stick your head in the sand rather than confront a real problem with eyes open. I’m the first person to recognize that human nature is basically evil, and even >>I<< don’t think that folks will be posting the details of their cat-hunt here. If you’ve ever seen a group of feral cats after generations of inbreeding (they’re pretty indiscriminate breeders), you would be the first person to charge the bolt on a .22LR and go “hunting” were it allowed. Not only would it reduce the number of song and game birds taken by these animals for sport, it is a supremely humane way of dealing with an aberrant overpopulation of our beloved animals (re-read your the first bit of your rant that I quoted above). We (humans) have created the problem by 1) domesticating the cat and 2) by turning them loose in an environment where they have a dearth of predators, abundant game, and damn near unlimited freedom of territory due to our collective suburbanite fear of killing our neighbor’s beloved “Bootsie”. That, my friend, is the bullshit part of the issue. The DNR proposal is to simply exempt folks from having to face the civil and criminal penalties for culling feral and/or what appears to be feral felines while engaged in a nuisance activity. If I am not mistaken, this protection has already been extended to those that might encounter canine problems (coy-dogs as well as the stray cur that threatens life or livestock). Why should cats enjoy some extended protection that does not extend to ANY other species? Get off the emotional high-horse you seem to be riding, and look at it from a logical perspective. It’s the responsible thing to do. *For those that know me: Ironic, isn't it? |
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Feral cats should be classified as an unprotected species in Wisconsin the same as other nuisance animals therefore subject to "hunting". Stray dogs chasing deer on private property should also be legal to "hunt". I am not concerned if they are someone's "baby" or not. If the animal is that valuable, they should be on a leash or otherwise detained. |
Feral cats can decimate certain bird populations and colonies. There are estimates of over 70 million feral cats nation wide. The big question is "Why protect Feral Cats?". They now enjoy a special protected status in states like Wisconsin. More reasonable states like Minnesota allow their killing. |
You can call it what ever you want. Fact: Men who own cats are viewed by many people (a good portion are dog owners) as less masculine men because cats are not manly. I can provide you proof that deals with me personally on this very board. Have you never seen in Teem or GD how differently cat people are treated versus dog people? I am secure enough to know I am no less of a man because some stupid redneck spouts some crap. Fact: I believe feral cats need to be dealt with. I have to admit that until you posted what the DNR wants to actually do. I did not know this information. Thus I responded like many anti-gun libs do. I provided an uninformed response. That said if no one is talking about a "cat season" so to speak I am fine with it. Yeah we don"t need a government "death squad", but if the problem is so ramped, then what is the solution to "massive" amounts of feral cats? No I voted for Hil...I can't even say it. Head in the sand? Really? So I have my head in the sand because I don't watch every news cast available or read every DNR report, or what? What do I have my head in the sand for? There is a problem with feral cats that needs to be dealt with. Because I am not out there leading the charge to shoot the feral cats I have my head in the sand. I mean really what are you saying here? Because I really don't know. If you are saying I have my head in the sand because I don't want to see people shooting cats. As far as tales of the cat hunt, dude give me a break. I was on a job once were this "customer" decided he wanted to share with me on how a good hollow point in 223 caused a cat he shot at to puff up like a balloon. Wow it amazing how it can absorb all that energy. Dude I don't need to hear that. That's just me. Yes I would think that nobody in the WHTF would post things like that in the WHTF. I am a responsible pet owner like I believe you are. I disagree with your stance on what should be done if your pet gets out. Dude I don't think it's right for someone to shoot your dog and kill it if it got out and chased a few cows around. That is just stupid. If the dog is truly doing damage and has gotten out on numerous occasions and the owner has been warned then ok. Just like I don't think people should shoot a neighbors cat because it got out a couple of times and ate a bird. Of course I am just using logic and common sense here. If you honestly believe that the opportunistic, people amongst us that have no scruples, or morals would not take this opportunity to shoot "Bootsie" for whatever reason? Then you sir have your head in the sand. Like I said before, and I will say it again in case you misunderstood me. If there is a feral cat problem in the area have at it. If the DNR passes this I am generally fine with it. There will be issues of people shooting house cats. It will happen. I hope you are not naive to think that it won't happen. Do I think it will be widespread house cat slaughters. No, but it will happen. There are some sick twisted evil people out there. You can call me whatever you like. You can think I am emotional and not thinking straight and not using logic. Honestly I don't care much. I may have mis stated things without having all of the information. In the end I have an opinion that you may disagree with. It is one of the beautiful things about being human. God gave me free will, and the United States gave me the ability to voice my opinion without persecution. Well not entirely true on the latter. I am sure there are grammatical errors, but I am hungry and feel like eating. So off I go. Todd |
Enough with the perpetually persecuted cat-owner crap. I like both you and your cats. In context, specifically because you keep your cats inside (they're pretty friendly, too).
Glad to hear it, and you did. 
AFAIK, my paraphrase of the proposed changes are, in effect, what the DNR was looking at, and seeking public opinion on. IIRC, it's all based on some UW grad student's work couple years back where the estimated and extrapolated bird-kills due to feral and house cats was something ridiculous (like billions of songbirds annually).
If I may...
You recognize that the above was an emotional and uniformed response to a real problem and a logical solution. I've highlighted the parts where it appeared to me that you would rather obfuscate and/or ignore the problem than discuss the real issue, ergo the "head in the sand" comment. I understand it's not a pleasant subject for you to partake in discussing. OTOH, I see this like me (a dog owner) discussing the family dog and feral/coydog culling. I can certainly tell the difference, and understand that the likelihood of the family dog getting mistaken for a wild/rabid/cross-bred canine is remote; unless the owner is incredibly irresponsible. There is no difference in this conversation, other than the fact that we're discussing felis varieties instead of canis varieties.
Actually, logic and common sense would demand that the offended party (landowner) be able to dispatch the offending animal (dog, cat, pet hyena, or whatever) that is trespassing on their property and being a nuisance. Responsibility for my own property would demand that I make sure it (whatever "it" is) respects my neighbor's. Yes, mistakes happen, pets go visiting, and it would be a callous neighbor that would shoot the nice and friendly animal that strayed from the next property over. HOWEVER, if they deigned fit to actually do so; to hold them criminally responsible for the decision and action to kill a nusiance animal is asinine. I'm a city boy living in the country and even I can see the logic and common sense to this. Personal Responsibility über alles, meine freunde.
"Bootsie" isn't going to be shot by anyone if Bootsie's owner keeps her in the house, on his property, or on a leash - same as "Rover". If Bootsie's owner lets her out in the morning, she finds her way into my backyard, and is attempting to kill/eat/or just "play" with the Cedar Waxwing that I have tried to attract with my bird feeder...well then, it's a different story, isn't it? Now I ask you, if I shoot "Bootsie", on my property while stalking my bird feeder, should I be subject to the animal cruelty laws the same as if I had walked up to the neighbor walking "Rover" on a leash, and shot the animal in the street? In essence, that is how things stand. Felines currently enjoy a level of protection that Canines do not.
If you just left it there, you and I would be on the same page. Instead, you keep adding on:
And again, if a cat gets popped on property no belonging to its owner, then you should have ZERO cause to have a problem with it... whether that cat is a pet tabby, calico, coon, or a friggen’ escaped panther.
Yep. And it's all due to you being one of those weird "Cat people"... 
Actually, I'd disagree with you on the latter, but that's a topic for the Religion forum...
You are entitled to believe what you want, just like I am entitled to tell you that your belief is as wrong as... well... <homosexual reference removed to spare None's dreams> |
Just for you.
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How 'bout this (from the "Hunter kills Wolf" thread):
I suppose the above doesn't apply to cat owners, right? Here's another quote I like: "Physician, Heal thyself." |
??????????????????? I guess it's not all in good fun. To take a quote from the movie Midnight Run. "You have two forms of expression...Silence and rage." 
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You need to add the "http://www." to your image tag, and to understand that what's good for the goose is good for the gander, bro. IOW, bring your A game to the debate. If you tangent with crap like my admitted and highly personal pet peeve of ol' Abe, don't be suprised if your friend who loves you dearly, gives you a good  with your own words to bring you back on topic, and show you the flaw in your logic.If I wanted to go all on your butt; you'd be a smoking pile of ash, instead of having a slightly bruised ego. Just sayin.
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Who says that you can't eat them?   Dog/Cat Information Dog/Cat should be handled in accordance with the general rules for game in the field. The blood should be drained and the entrails removed. The body cavity should be wiped clean. When hung for 48 hours, they are ready to be skinned and cooked. Dog/Cat meat is light colored and tender. Excess fat may be removed, but there is not a strong flavor or odor contained in the fat. Chill to firm up fat for easy removal. If possible, trap dog/cat and feed it on milk and cereals for 10 days before killing. Clean, but do not skin. Treat as for pig by immersing the unskinned animal in water just below the boiling point. Test frequently by plucking at the hair. When it slips out readily, remove the dog/cat from the water and scrape. While scraping repeatedly, pour cool water over the surface of the animal. "When eating dog/cat, it's always a good idea to eat in pairs. That way one of the two can always be watching for traffic." CAT ALMANDINE 1 large dressed feral cat cut in pieces 1/3 cup flour 1/4 cup oil 1 1/2 tsp. salt 1 tsp. pepper 1 cup beef stock 1/2 tsp. rosemary 1 tsp. lemon rind 1 med. onion, cut into rings 1/4 cup water 1/2 cup sour cream Water 1/4 cup toasted slivered almonds Coat cat pieces with flour (reserve remaining flour). Brown in heavy hot skillet, sprinkle with salt and pepper. Pour beef stock with rosemary, lemon rind, and onion over cat. Simmer 45 minutes. Remove cat pieces to warmed platter. Combine reserved flour with water and stir into broth until sauce is thick. Stir in sour cream and almonds; pour over cat DOG FRITTERS 1 1/2 lb. ground dog 1/2 cup dry bread crumbs 1 onion, chopped fine 1/3 cup milk salad oil 1/2 tsp baking soda 1 egg 1 tsp salt 1/4 tsp pepper Mix all ingredients except salad oil. Shape into 1/2 inch meatballs and refrigerate. Batter: Mix 2/3 cup milk, 1/2 tsp soda, 2 eggs, and 4 tsp salad oil in a bowl. Stir in 1 1/3 cups all-purpose flour, 1 tsp double-acting baking powder, 1 1/2 tsp salt, and 1/4 tsp pepper. |
I'd like to have an argument, please.
Same here (a couple times now, it was a good pic, too). 
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