Posted: 2/1/2007 1:34:14 PM EDT
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Anyone built a EBR with M&A parts pros- cons T.I.A. Mark |
| Here's a link to the Built It Yourself forum. If you searched it, you'd probably find a lot of info too. |
Thanks 
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| LMT does not sell upper receiver to vendors. They only sell complete uppers ready to fire for insurance reasons. I was told this direct from LMT when I tried to order just an upper receiver direct as an LMT dealer so I have serious doubts about M&A having them. ADCO used to buy complete upper groups and part them out but LMT put a stop to that. I purchased one from ADCO before they quit. |
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Mark, Friends don't let friends buy M&A parts.  FWIW & YMMV, but I'd suggest getting your parts from Bravo Company or Sully. If you MUST have the cheapest available kits (yet retain some quality); go with J&T or Del-Ton. ETA: Pros: Cheap parts that will last a few thousand rounds for plinking. Cons: Cheap parts that will last ONLY a few thousand rounds for plinking, marginal QC, the same DPMS "Made in Mexico" stuff you can get everywhere else for probably less money, and a distinct lack of customer relations. I would actually say the much of the same things about RRA, and personally shoot the crap out of a M1s & RRA uppers, so "quality" and longevity are definately subjective standards. Given the choice right now, I would avoid the mistakes I made (and parts replacements that I was required to make to have a functioning gun) and buy from SLR15 or Bravo off the bat. Edit 2: Everyone here probably realizes that I have a bias toward Defensive Edge's product. I can only explain this by saying that if you'd ever compared the components side-by-side in your hand, you'd understand. Bravo uses many of the same components in their uppers, and I know that they absolutely positively stand behind their products. |
They used to be the same company back in the day IIRC. Model 1 is the sis and M&A is the bro after thier father died and the hate each other. But I have been wrong once or twice. I am partial to Defensive Edge stuff also If you want quality. |
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FMD and I have already talked about this so I'll try to stay objective and not piss anyone off. I have not owned a Defensive Edge product but if it's good enough for you guys then it's good enough for me. I buy M&A for the following reasons:
Do I have a undying allegiance to M&A? Hell no, when I see a better deal I'll jump at it. I only want to communicate both my positive and negative experiences and let the buyer make their own decisions. |
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+ 1 on the brotherhood issue. Buy quality. ABCD and LMT Armalite, Bushmaster, Colt, Defensive Edge and LMT all make quality products and all but Colt have excellent customer service. In Colt's defense they usually do not have any issues. I deal with all makes at the shop and will order the customer whatever he wants but I always try to sell quality. Stag/ S&W rifles are holding up pretty well with my customers also. You get what you pay for in most cases. DPMS stands behind their guns and has good customer service. Olympic Arms has a lifetime warranty but I have gotten some lousy answers to questions on more than one occasion. RRA got the DEA contract which put them in high demand and I have not had any problems with their product except for the ridiculous wait if you are not ordering a complete rifle. I build rifles to suit the either my or the customers needs and other than an AR pistol at customer request have never used Model 1 or M&A because of the low quality I have seen at the range or when they are brought in for repair. Every company puts out a lemon now and then. |
I'm not aware of any SLR15 model that you can buy for $600. $795 seems to be the entry level gun (unless I missed some recent sale). To answer your question (more or less): Sully has specific parts that they make/have made for their rifles. Superior forges their receivers and Wilson does their barrels (in specific profiles exclusive to the SLR15). Any "off the shelf" parts that go into the rifles are spec'd to the highest quality (the bolt I bought from them to replace my cracked M1S bolt was marked "MPC", if that gives you a clue as to the quality). Maybe I missed something, but were you trying to illustrate my point that we're comparing apples to oranges? If so,  , because there is no comparison to parts quality between the M1S/M&As and the parts that go into a SLR15.ETA:
 Let the record show that I did NOT bring this up!George, if you have a gunsmith-type account with Brownells, I'd be suprised if you couldn't find the same parts at a cheaper price (FWIW, and YMMV). Edit 2: HKMP5 (or anyone else wondering) this Customer Service poll in the tech forums might interest you: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=312794&page=1 |
Don't think of it that way. Think of it more as a "comp" spot on a class that is already happening, because DE recognizes that a rifle without training is an expensive club. It is truly a free course.
They are very inexpensive rifles for what you get. Note that $795 is the absolute base. A "nicely equipped" SLR will run one closer to $1300.
Right. No one knows who CMT, Colt, or Superior is. Sully stocks aren't in use by anyone, and Wilson barrels is an unknown maker. If you'd like a full parts list, email Sully, or post a question in their Industry Forum. After taking the armorer's course (i.e. I got a parts list and an education on WHY particular parts are spec'd the way they are), I did the math. I can't build a rifle of the same quality for a similar price - even with a Brownell's discount. As to why: I don't drop $10, $20, or $50k on a vendor to buy in volume. I thought this thread was about M&A pros, cons, (and alternatives)... To bring it back home, for quality parts without budgetary concerns I'd contact Bravo Company or Defensive Edge. For an inexpensive kit build, I'd recommend someone like J&T or DelTon - If you have to have something with a brand on it and still want it fairly inexpensive; go RRA or DPMS. Having had personal experience with both M1S and M&A - I would advise that you shop elsewhere. |
What parts are unknown? I am thinking they are listed on the website. just a "guess" as I am too "lazy" to go look for myself. "Free" class is "free" he does not charge more for the rifle to make up this cost it is "free" that I do know for shure. |
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Ok back to the whole M1sales and M&A thing. I bought a couple parts from M&A at a recentish fun show. small parts I couldn't otherwise get local, a gas tube and some springs for my extractor. Anything else, I'd rather buy the parts seperetly and build it myself, or get the whole thing from a know for good quality company. HK we had this conversation before, go to Shooter's and get an RRA lower parts kit. Go to SLR15, Bravo Company or Bushmaster or DPMS and buy a complete upper. yes it's going to cost you more than a parts kit, but you at least know the parts are going to be good quality. I understand that it's just a blasting/fun gun for you, but it's more fun when shit isn't breaking on you left and right and the gun is running correctly. The only good thing I can say about my M1 sales 11.5 upper is that it runs hot or cold out, and even with busted extractor springs. Oh wait, thats right it's a colt bolt and carrier. The only thing I don't like is the lack of a chrome lined barrel. If I had it to do over again I'd have just built my upper with a CMMG 11.5 barrel and a CMT or superior upper receiver.
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The guy who spends all that money on full auto and suppressors and you would buy the cheapest AR........... Just funin ya... I gave up a long time ago trying to convince anyone what to buy and why. If some one asks me what I would buy, I tell them. I don't have a list of what not to buy... just a list of what I WOULD buy. (it's a shorter lis that way) My list is Colt LMT BCM SLR15 could you buy something else and be thrilled from now until they plant you??? Absoulutely... I want a AR made to a specific standard that adheres as close o the TDP (Technical Data Package) as possible. For me tha's Important.. for others.. they could care less. thats why you need to decide. everybody makes good shit.. everybodies shit breaks How they hold up is the question. it's just like gambling in Vegas.. the only difference is the level of the odds.... I've never been a big gambler.... |
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Why I'm thinking M&A they are at most guns show so if you have a problem you always can catch them at a show and they can make it right. I have had some emails with Doc at M&A and he has always answered my questions in a timely and friendly manner. I ask for feed back and take it all into consideration. I have done some research on Bushmaster & RRAs and now am looking into DPMS. The SBR will be a no frills blaster no lights optics rails can etc. My life will not depend on the SBR I would go to My Colts or RRAs for the AR type weapon when and if the time comes. Model 1 is out of the running for sure. I know where FMD stands on DPMS so lets add them to your opinions Thanks Mark Remember its just going to be a loud flamethrower blaster it just needs to go bang 90% of the time not a 100%
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I am currently storing a DPMS at my place for TommyTrauma. I will not bad mouth them because the gun has always gone bang everytime I pull the trigger. With that said some of the parts just do not fit together correctly. It is hard to open the gun up for cleaning (need a punch or something else). Could it have been made better? Yes it could have IMHO. Would I hesitate to take it with if I needed it? No I would not. With all that said I am currently saving up for a SLR15 because I have seen the extras that go into them. A real eye opener for me was at the armorers class. Bottom line DPMS is a decent gun for the price but there are lots better options out there for not much more. Sidenote: Why would you buy a gun not expecting it to go bang 100% of the time? |
The MA uppers are not etched with LMT logos, but the upper receivers are made by LMT. The rest of the assembly is put together by them. They do have a large selection of LMT upper assemblies that are all factory LMT (just like you would find anywhere else) and are etched with the propper markings. |