Posted: 9/5/2007 9:16:52 AM EDT
I cant seem to find a good answer for CCWing in a hospital? There are no signs at the hospital I will be frequenting for a few days. I have heard that it is not allowed, but then again i have heard it is ok. Anyone have a link or knowledge of it? 
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Penrose/St. Francis and all other Centura Health facilities are posted no carry. You may have to look for the signs. Some city/county owned hospitals are also posted. But I have never heard of anyone being arrested or prosecuted for carrying in a hospital. Just be careful. Remember that there are high pressure gas lines in the walls that carry more then oxygen, and if you hit one it could be quite the mess! |
Yep - signs don't mean anythings, metal detectors at every entrance (according to the law) do. The worst they can do is ask you to leave, if you don't then they've got you on trespassing charges or something (misdemeanor I think). I doubt i'd try open carry if there is signage though. If no signage and not in Denver, then go nuts! |
signs = convenient targets (ok j/k) = laugh at and walk right in. In colorado, they are worthless. |
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It probably depends on the hospital as to whether or not signs are valid. Banner Health posts "no firearms allowed on premesis" at every entrance. The hospital is privately owned by Banner Health, so according to the law the sign is adequate and no metal detectors are needed. At least that's how I read it. If there's no sign, no security, I'd say you're good-to-go. |
100% false information. A sign is legally binding in CO, consult your attorney if you have doubts. A hospital is a private buisness, they can make any rules they see fit, same as you can with your house. See 18-12-214(5) for clarification. Section 18-12-214(4) lists the measures that must be in place at a PUBLIC place for CCW to be prohibited (metal detectors and security), don't confuse the two! Additionally, President of the Colorado State Shooting Association Tony Fabian Esq. lends his input here. About halfway down the page a Mark M. asks this question. |
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My understanding of private property thats posted that the absolute worst thing that can happen to you is to be hit with a trespassing charge, with the much more likely outcome is to be asked to leave. Since state law does NOT specify a penalty for ignoring signs, its fairly safe to do so (assuming its not one of the other limit areas like a post office, k-12 school, etc). Some states DO specify a penalty for ignoring signs (NM for example), and in those states, I do pay attention to the disarmed victims required signs. |
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You can/will be charged with criminal trespass. Additionally expect to be charged under 18-12-105(2)( c ) --- Unlawfully carrying a concealed weapon - unlawful possession of weapons. ( c ) A person who, at the time of carrying a concealed weapon, held a valid written permit to carry a concealed weapon issued pursuant to section 18-12-105.1, as it existed prior to its repeal, or, if the weapon involved was a handgun, held a valid permit to carry a concealed handgun or a temporary emergency permit issued pursuant to part 2 of this article; except that it shall be an offense under this section if the person was carrying a concealed handgun in violation of the provisions of section 18-12-214; Under 18-12-105(1) this will be charged as a class 2 misdemeanor. You are more than welcome to take your chances, but I'd err on the side of caution. It sounds like you want to disregard the property owners rights. I'd ask you be more respectful of their wishes (and go spend your money elsewhere) Obviously talking about a hospital you don't have much choice. Additionally, if you see a posted business please inform CSSA, they will work to educate the owner tactfully. |
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Appears I was wrong on that, I'd never seen that section of the law before. So I stand corrected. That said, I personally do NOT feel that a private property owner who opens his property to the public (like a Mall, Hospital, etc) has the right to disarm me UNLESS he can guarantee my safety by screening everyone entering for weapons. |
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I did some further research, and I think you might be accidentally citing old law. I hit CBI's site for 18-12-105(1), link and quoted law at the bottom of my posting. I see nothing on their site that talks about any mandatory penalties for ignoring signs. Not trying to be an ass and start a fight, just want to determine the truth as best possible. Section 18-12-214 talks about the restrictions where a CCW can not carry. It does mention that a private property owner can impose their own rules, but does NOT specify what happens if you see a sign and ignore it. Its rather vague about that. cbi.state.co.us/ic/statutes/18-12-105.htm 18-12-105. Unlawfully carrying a concealed weapon - unlawful possession of weapons. (1) A person commits a class 2 misdemeanor if such person knowingly and unlawfully: (a) Carries a knife concealed on or about his or her person; or (b) Carries a firearm concealed on or about his or her person; or (c) Without legal authority, carries, brings, or has in such person's possession a firearm or any explosive, incendiary, or other dangerous device on the property of or within any building in which the chambers, galleries, or offices of the general assembly, or either house thereof, are located, or in which a legislative hearing or meeting is being or is to be conducted, or in which the official office of any member, officer, or employee of the general assembly is located. (d) (Deleted by amendment, L. 93, p. 964, § 1, effective July 1, 1993.) (2) It shall not be an offense if the defendant was: (a) A person in his or her own dwelling or place of business or on property owned or under his or her control at the time of the act of carrying; or (b) A person in a private automobile or other private means of conveyance who carries a weapon for lawful protection of such person's or another's person or property while traveling; or (c) A person who, at the time of carrying a concealed weapon, held a valid written permit to carry a concealed weapon issued pursuant to section 18-12-105.1, as it existed prior to its repeal, or, if the weapon involved was a handgun, held a valid permit to carry a concealed handgun or a temporary emergency permit issued pursuant to part 2 of this article; except that it shall be an offense under this section if the person was carrying a concealed handgun in violation of the provisions of section 18-12-214; or (d) A peace officer, as described in section 16-2.5-101, C.R.S., when carrying a weapon in conformance with the policy of the employing agency as provided in section 16-2.5-101 (2), C.R.S.; or (e) (Deleted by amendment, L. 2003, p. 1624, § 46, effective August 6, 2003.) (f) A United States probation officer or a United States pretrial services officer while on duty and serving in the state of Colorado under the authority of rules and regulations promulgated by the judicial conference of the United States. |
I'm behind that 100%, but you and I both know it doesn't work that way.
No worries on the clarification, I feel the post tone has remained completely civil here, and I love trying to gather answers to these types of concerns. To the best of my knowledge, it hasn't been tested in court, so who knows. I'm going to follow the advice of the attorney I've retained, he helped draft the CCW laws and has unique insight regarding intent. His advice: not to CCW in any private entity that has posted otherwise. I got into it with him over this exact issue about 1.5 years ago. Let's remember to draw a distinction between charged with and convicted of. You might be right and will never be convicted, but do you want to spend your life savings trying to prove so? His reasoning is the property owner has absolute power wrt his premises, I think we can agree on this. Therefore he can make any restrictions inside his premises he/she chooses, no requirement for them to even post/disclose CCW is prohibited. A sign is the property owners 1st notification they don't want you around ccw’ing. Failure to leave after being informed is clearly a violation. I think you are trying to use your prejudices to support your POV, look at this from the property owners rights POV. Tony is CO's best resource for 2A rights. Combined with the advice of my attorney tells me there is something else we need to be concerned with. Remember 1/2 the law is how it's written; the other more important half is case law. I don't have the time to research the case law to offer supporting evidence. Be safe! |
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Yeah case law always makes it interesting. I generally don't worry about signs in Colorado because I see them so rarely that its not an issue for me. That plus the generally mild legal penalties you might suffer for ignoring one makes it a low concern for me. The only real reason I pay attention to signs (or lack of) at all is due to my NM experience. When I went to NM back in jan, where ignoring a sign is a felony per NM law, I paid REAL close attention to who had signs and who didn't. Goddamn everything down there is posted, and whats worse, a lot of the signs are small and hidden among 8 tons of other crap. I went into a coffee shop for breakfast one time while carrying, and only when I left the place did I notice the lame "no gun" picture. It was buried on the lower part of their door, and difficult to see even with a deliberate search. Pissed me off to no end knowing that I had technically just committed a felony, and not even known it. Could be even worse though, read up on NC's or GA's carry laws 
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