Posted: 12/9/2009 12:39:32 PM EDT
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Let me set this discussion up with an overview for the uninformed- The Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC) was a public work relief program for unemployed men, providing vocational training through the performance of useful work related to conservation and development of natural resources in the United States from 1933 to 1942. As part of the New Deal legislation proposed by U.S. President Franklin D. Roosevelt (FDR), the CCC was designed to aid relief of the unemployment resulting from the Great Depression while implementing a general natural resource conservation program on federal, state, county and municipal lands in every U.S. state, including the territories of Alaska, Hawaii, Puerto Rico, and the U.S. Virgin Islands. The CCC became one of the more popular New Deal programs among the general public, providing economic relief, rehabilitation and training for a total of 3 million men. The CCC also provided a comprehensive work program that combined conservation, renewal, awareness and appreciation of the nation's natural resources. The CCC was never considered a permanent program and depended on emergency and temporary legislation for its existence. On 30 June 1942 Congress voted to terminate funding for the CCC, formally ceasing active operation of the program. My Grandfather was one of those guys. He joined the CCC in 1936 or so, and as an 18 year old son of legally emigrated Russians, it was his ticket to learning a trade. He worked in the motor pool as a mechanic, and was very grateful for the program. He explained to me that it was very similar to being in the military. They used a similar rank structure, were housed in camps set up/designed by the Corps of Engineers. To join one signed a contract, again similar to the US Military. In May of 1942 the were addressed at the morning formation, the Camp commander told them the US Military would accept the all as volunteers, and since they were essentially a construction unit, they would be formed and assimilated into similar jobs in the US Army, many of them at NCO rank. As my Grandfather tells the story, and to a man, the entire Camp stepped forward.OK, I'm getting offf-track.........................................(thanks for letting me borrow the period VVV!) It would seem to me, that it shouldn't be a huge stretch to assume that in some Gov't warehouse, somehere, there's a huge pile of uniforms that are not the current issue. It would also stand to reason that between FEMA and the DoD that there is the means to supply an endless stream of tentage, mess supplies, cleaning products, and all of the associated requirements to set up shop. We all know for a fact that there are shutdown gov't facilities a-plenty to start up this type of operation. The biggest question is, is there enough projects and "things to do" that require huge amounts of labor to make this an effective program? Wouldn't the formation of something like this stimulate the growth in related industries that manufacture goods and consumable items that would support something like this? Here's some more Wiki Excerpts- Legislation to create the program was presented by FDR to the 73rd United States Congress on 21 March 1933:
The "Act for the relief of unemployment through performance of useful public works and other purposes," or Emergency Conservation Work (ECW), as it was known, was signed into law by him on 31 March 1933 The CCC performed 300 possible types of work projects within ten approved general classifications: 1) Structural Improvements: bridges, fire towers, service buildings; 2) Transportation: truck trails, minor roads, foot trails and airport landing fields; 3) Erosion Control: check dams, terracing and vegetable covering; 4) Flood Control: irrigation, drainage, dams, ditching, channel work, riprapping; 5) Forest Culture: planting trees and shrubs, timber stand improvement, seed collection, nursery work; 6) Forest Protection: fire prevention, fire presuppression, fire fighting, insect and disease control; 7) Landscape and Recreation: public camp and picnic ground development, lake and pond site clearing and development; 8) Range: stock driveways, elimination of predatory animals; 9) Wildlife: stream improvement, stocking fish, food and cover planting; 10) Miscellaneous: emergency work, surveys, mosquito control. The hippies would love it as it relates to conservationism, the Dems since it's a "feel-good" program, the Repubs since they actually get a return on the investment, and Libritarians since the gov't dollars spent would directly translate into the gov't doing some good. BUT: To drastic of a measure? Does it lack a currently viable positive cost/benfit analysis? Is this too close to militarizing the entire nation? Dry Run for the FEMA death camps? What do you think? |
| My dad was in CCC for 3 years, left about 39 IIRC. Now the reason it would not work today, most of the lazy fuckers on welfare would have to get into the program and they wouldn't work. The incentive to work for a better life does not exist with the welfare state. (why work when they will give it to me for free) |
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Quoted: My dad was in CCC for 3 years, left about 39 IIRC. Now the reason it would not work today, most of the lazy fuckers on welfare would have to get into the program and they wouldn't work. The incentive to work for a better life does not exist with the welfare state. (why work when they will give it to me for free) Kinda precisely my hidden agenda behind my wanting to see this program revived. This country needs a fucking enema. |
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Quoted: How is it paid for? Oh yeah, it is a government program so, taxes and borrowing. It's not a private entity creating a new product or service. Isn't that how we got in the situation we're in? How about we pay for it, at least initially, with the monies set aside for bailouts and unused TARP money? Wouldn't you rather see a return on an investment in the form of conservationism, as opposed to the money getting pissed away thru the many forms of welfare our .gov enables the masses with? |
| I think it would be a bad plan. If the goal is to help people a 'make-work' program may provide employment to some and have other benefits but since it would be financed with borrowed money it's not actually helping to get our economy turned around which is the real issue. We should focus on measures which lead to the creation of real wealth generating jobs so that we can continue to pay for the rest of our crappy government services and the debts we keep piling on. |
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Our Motto-"Hard Work, Low Pay, Miserable Conditions.......and more!" |
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Our Motto-"Hard Work, Low Pay, Miserable Conditions.......and more!" Yeah.....and get paid once a month, prison sounds like a better option. |
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How is it paid for? Oh yeah, it is a government program so, taxes and borrowing. It's not a private entity creating a new product or service. Isn't that how we got in the situation we're in? How about we pay for it, at least initially, with the monies set aside for bailouts and unused TARP money? Wouldn't you rather see a return on an investment in the form of conservationism, as opposed to the money getting pissed away thru the many forms of welfare our .gov enables the masses with? i would go for this. The more employed people there are the more money is spent and the more money the gov. gets in the form of taxes. Its the freeloading bull shit that destroys everything. Then we would just need a prez. that understands how to "operate in the black" |
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I spent a summer working in a a CCC offshoot, known at the Youth Conservation Corps.....made ok money, learned a lot about working , and had a blast for a summer. spent most of the time in the Gifford Pinchot. with our base camp near Rimrock Lake.
I wish it were stiull going...I'd send my son. |
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I worked for almost two years with the California Conservation Corps in '80 and '81, SpankyBear did a year or so around the same time.
The California Department of Forestry first implemented fire crews in 1949 using adult male inmates when a tent camp operation was established at the Minewawa Camp in southern San Diego County . Within a few years, approximately 12 such CDF-CDC camps existed throughout California . Incident commanders or “fire bosses” as they were then called, soon realized how valuable fire crews could be to the total wildland fire suppression chore. In the early seventies, Governor Ronald Reagan instituted the California Ecology Corps. The Corps were an alternative for young men who were conscientious objectors of the Vietnam War. The CDF-Ecology Corps program lasted from 1973 through 1977. Governor Edmund G. Brown, Jr. eliminated the Ecology Corps, replacing it with the CCC's, California ’s new version of the earlier federal Civilian Conservation Corps. At its peak in the late seventies and early 80's there were eight CDF-CCC Fire Centers. We SAVED the state / taxpayers money when we fought fires, floods, did trail maintenance / building and a lot of other bullshit. The biggest "hit" to the CCC's was the growing population of inmates in California in the 90's. California closed all of their dedicated Fire Centers and either sold the property or turned them into CDC / CYA fire camps. I say there should be an option for "young people" who want to serve the country but don't want to join the Military, a program like the CCC's would be great! Getting paid once a month was no big deal when you lived at the camp (center), ate three meals a day and didn't have a life much beyond drinking, smoking fucking and having a good time. 
Here's a paycheck I received in May of '81 - 
I made less than that as an E1 in the Navy a year later. 
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Philosophically, I would oppose any government project like this because it would probably just become a giant boondoggle and result in increased taxes. However, I'd go for a 1:1 swap. Kill DSHS, replace it with a WCCC and refund us the difference. (On a somewhat related note, I've long been a proponent of a Convict Conservation Corps. I'd love to see us create State DOC work camps for CCC type projects. And local counties should be doing the same for the county jails. Instead we have a bunch of dick-measuring county commissioners screwing around with our jail partnership.)
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I worked for almost two years with the California Conservation Corps in '80 and '81, SpankyBear did a year or so around the same time. The California Department of Forestry first implemented fire crews in 1949 using adult male inmates when a tent camp operation was established at the Minewawa Camp in southern San Diego County . Within a few years, approximately 12 such CDF-CDC camps existed throughout California . Incident commanders or “fire bosses” as they were then called, soon realized how valuable fire crews could be to the total wildland fire suppression chore. In the early seventies, Governor Ronald Reagan instituted the California Ecology Corps. The Corps were an alternative for young men who were conscientious objectors of the Vietnam War. The CDF-Ecology Corps program lasted from 1973 through 1977. Governor Edmund G. Brown, Jr. eliminated the Ecology Corps, replacing it with the CCC's, California ’s new version of the earlier federal Civilian Conservation Corps. At its peak in the late seventies and early 80's there were eight CDF-CCC Fire Centers. We SAVED the state / taxpayers money when we fought fires, floods, did trail maintenance / building and a lot of other bullshit. The biggest "hit" to the CCC's was the growing population of inmates in California in the 90's. California closed all of their dedicated Fire Centers and either sold the property or turned them into CDC / CYA fire camps. I say there should be an option for "young people" who want to serve the country but don't want to join the Military, a program like the CCC's would be great! Getting paid once a month was no big deal when you lived at the camp (center), ate three meals a day and didn't have a life much beyond drinking, smoking fucking and having a good time.
Here's a paycheck I received in May of '81 - http://www.vaq34.com/ccc/cccpaycheck.jpg I made less than that as an E1 in the Navy a year later.
I did a year ('90-'91) in Legget (Humboldt County), I became a Type-2 Firefighter along with CDF. The pay sucked-ass and I mostly did 'Salmon Restoration' on the off-season. ....but it was fun. The fire camps were AWESOME when deployed on a fire, the food was amazing. |
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I'm pretty sure that this is the kind of thing our President wants to start. At least the job description would start out like this. Then they would become the brown shirts. With no jobs and dismal future there would be plenty of applicants out of high school and college freshly brainwashed by our wonderful teachers.
At this very moment in time I would be at least skeptical of any kind of new civilian service program if it was started up by this administration. |
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Our Motto-"Hard Work, Low Pay, Miserable Conditions.......and more!" I worked there for a year. Got my GED whereas I might not have under my own steam. Their motto wasn't completely true, some of the facilities were not miserable. Got some good training and some work ethic. I did this: http://www.ccc.ca.gov/DISTRICT/SHASTAPA/SRP/srp.htm ETA: I was assigned to a little satellite center for SRP in Forest Glen, CA. I miss that part of CA, and while I will go back to visit, I will never want to live there again. |
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Ron,
I did my time in the Young Adult Conservation Corp out of North Bend. It was a great experience and led to me getting my degree in Forest Management from WSU. For me the best thing was working and living with alot of diverse folks that I probably wouldn't of interacted with. There are still a few programs out there - let me know if your son is interested, I'm still close to friends in the Forest Service. R |
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Our Motto-"Hard Work, Low Pay, Miserable Conditions.......and more!" I worked there for a year. Got my GED whereas I might not have under my own steam. Their motto wasn't completely true, some of the facilities were not miserable. Got some good training and some work ethic. I did this: http://www.ccc.ca.gov/DISTRICT/SHASTAPA/SRP/srp.htm ETA: I was assigned to a little satellite center for SRP in Forest Glen, CA. I miss that part of CA, and while I will go back to visit, I will never want to live there again. I stayed in Forest Glen for a couple of days after putting a fire out in Rio Del, then went to Fortuna to drop off some personnel. And, headed back to my camp in Legget shortly after. I did 'Salmon Restoration' as well. I was a sawyer and then made it to the kitchen as a 'Specialist'. ....it's a small world. |
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Our Motto-"Hard Work, Low Pay, Miserable Conditions.......and more!" I worked there for a year. Got my GED whereas I might not have under my own steam. Their motto wasn't completely true, some of the facilities were not miserable. Got some good training and some work ethic. I did this: http://www.ccc.ca.gov/DISTRICT/SHASTAPA/SRP/srp.htm ETA: I was assigned to a little satellite center for SRP in Forest Glen, CA. I miss that part of CA, and while I will go back to visit, I will never want to live there again. I stayed in Forest Glen for a couple of days after putting a fire out in Rio Del, then went to Fortuna to drop off some personnel. And, headed back to my camp in Legget shortly after. I did 'Salmon Restoration' as well. I was a sawyer and then made it to the kitchen as a 'Specialist'. ....it's a small world. I was at Placer Fire Center in Auburn. I went all over the state fighting fires for two full fire seasons. My first season I was the Pulaski operator, then a Swamper for the Sawyer. The next season I was a Sawyer. During the off season we did cool stuff, we helped to build the Placer County regional park, we did Placer County fair grounds maintenance work, we planted trees in the Tahoe and Plumas National Forests, we did flood control along the American River, we restored an 1880's house in the historic part of Auburn, we went to Sacramento and cut down the Elm trees that had blight, we did the MedFly fruit strip, we did a lot of in-camp maintenance, built a green house, roofed the camp buildings, refurbished the water storage tank, replaced the water line from the open sluice trench (from the American River) and a lot more. Me and a couple of buddies used to ride dirt bikes out back behind the camp. There were miles and miles of roads and trails. We used to go camping at Lake Combie and the Bear River, about a 2 mile hike from the camp and a 9 mile drive. Lots of good times were had there. We had a tree house built in a tree on the mountain behind the camp. It was big enough for 5 people to sit in it comfortably, or for two people to sleep there. Fuck letting convicts do that kind of work, I say let them rot in jail. It costs LESS to care and feed a Corps Member than it does to do the same with some asshole convict. The CCC's is pussified these days. When I was in the CCC'ers fought fires while the convicts worked the fire camps, these days it's turned around. 
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SNIP The station in Legget was 35 miles south of Garberville (which was the closest town to camp), so the certified firefighters (me) had to be first responders to car accidents. There were some gruesome crashes we had to deal with that made a few people fucked-up in the head and had to be shipped to a different site. The best one that comes to mind is a logging truck (Louisiana Pacific) hauling-ass just past 'Standish and Hickey National Park' and it couldn't make the 25mph curve in the road and dumped over the bridge approx. 60 ft. A few of us had to repel off of the bridge to assess the individual, of which; the truck was on fire and required to be extinguished. We put the fire out quick and was able to get to the driver. The driver was surprisingly alive and talking but one of his arms was charred, and when I went to grab it to stabilize; the charred skin came away from the arm and exposed the fascia and bone. He was still talking to us (rambling). Two of the guys lost their lunch......repeatedly, I barely kept mine. But, I'll never forget the smell of the burnt skin........FUCK, that was the worst!!! Did you happen to know Erin Healy? Just curious..... |
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Did you happen to know Erin Healy? Just curious..... 
Why yes I did. 
She showed up a few months after I did. Her and her boyfriend were on Crew Two, she made Crew Leader. His little sister came to camp a month or so before my second fire season, we started dating soon after that. Erin was the smart one, she took the Crew Leader position after a couple of people turned it down, then she went Helitack and from there I think she made C1. Now she's pretty high up in the CCC's. I turned down Crew Leader twice, passed on Helitack and passed on Resource Protection Trainee. Passed on Crew Leader because I would of had to leave Placer, passed on Helitack because I was working with the CDF as a volunteer at the Auburn station and passed on RPT because I was trying to get hired on as an Wildland Pumper Truck Engineer with the CDF - I scored in the lower 90's, the cut-off was in the low 80's - HOWEVER - they took women and minorities down to 64% in order to meet the quotas. I would of had to have scored a 98 or above in order to get hired. Did you know Mark Hill (Grizz)? |
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Did you happen to know Erin Healy? Just curious..... http://www.vaq34.com/ccc/45.jpg Why yes I did.
She showed up a few months after I did. Her and her boyfriend were on Crew Two, she made Crew Leader. His little sister came to camp a month or so before my second fire season, we started dating soon after that. Erin was the smart one, she took the Crew Leader position after a couple of people turned it down, then she went Helitack and from there I think she made C1. Now she's pretty high up in the CCC's. I turned down Crew Leader twice, passed on Helitack and passed on Resource Protection Trainee. Passed on Crew Leader because I would of had to leave Placer, passed on Helitack because I was working with the CDF as a volunteer at the Auburn station and passed on RPT because I was trying to get hired on as an Wildland Pumper Truck Engineer with the CDF - I scored in the lower 90's, the cut-off was in the low 80's - HOWEVER - they took women and minorities down to 64% in order to meet the quotas. I would of had to have scored a 98 or above in order to get hired. Did you know Mark Hill (Grizz)? There's Erin!! Little bad-ass Erin. She was indeed brilliant, we've had a few discussions about my career with the state and CDF. She gave me a referral to become a 'Hot Shot', I've seen her out work guys on the fire-line. Mark Hill.......that name is awfully familiar, was he built like a brick shit-house? Eventually went in to the Army? The funniest thing I saw when deployed on a fire was a guy rolling out the hose and clamping the hose then yelling 'water' and the guy on the Pumper yelling 'water coming'......next thing you see the clamp fling off and bust the guy in his mug. Split his forehead clean.......but the way it looked had me rolling on the ground. He obviously let up on the clamp, and you know the pressure behind the water!
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Quoted: Philosophically, I would oppose any government project like this because it would probably just become a giant boondoggle and result in increased taxes. +106,000,000, especially with the Chicago mob ruinning things, altho' I have no confidence that non-Chicago Dumbocrats, or Republicans, for that matter, would do any better. |