Posted: 2/12/2009 4:09:39 PM EDT
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I posted this in rocky mountain HTF but i thought I'd get the opinion of you guys too.
I'm a resident of Montana living in Washington to attend college. At the moment I'm trying to purchase a long gun. Due to Montana law apparently Washington FFLs can't sell to me.I also do not want to get a WA state drivers license as I don't know how this would effect my vehicle registration and insurance as the insurence is not in my name (registration is). Which leaves me 3 options. Cancel my purchase, Try to find a dealer in Idaho that will be willing to facilitate the transfer. or go the full distance and return to montana to pick up the rifle (would the Montana FFL raise a stink about my primary address being in WA even though legally I'm an MT resident?) So which option should I pick or is there another alternative route to go? Also I still maintain and address in Montana |
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Dude get yourself a WA state ID card... go to the licensing office and ask for that. I think it's 20 bucks... and it'll be mailed to you. In the mean time you can use the paper id card that they give you to get yourself the long gun...
Montana State Law has no jurisdiction in this state. So it doesn't matter what Montana thinks or does. Edit: Go to Licensing office Ask for WA state ID card Go to gunstore get gun simple... easy... BTW make sure that you take a utilities bill with you showing your WA state address. That is all they require for it... Oh and btw you are supposed to have a WA state License if you stay in WA for more than 6 months (I think it's 6 months) And it doesn't do anything to your insurance because your Montana drivers license doesn't get affected by it. You would just have two drivers licenses... I have four IDs (florida, PR, WA, passport) |
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If you are still a resident of Montana, and it sounds like that is the case, the least amount of hassle is going to be for you to arrange for the rifle to be sent to an FFL in MT and have it transferred to you the next time you are home.
For those who don't know residents of Montana may only make an out of state purchase of rifles or shotguns in states contiguous to Montana. |
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Isn't that the same as the drivers license that I'm trying to avoid .  Plus I think ID stuff, Signed SS card and birht cert are in montana.You don't need SS card any more only the number (for DL)... it's not a valid form of ID in this state. nor do you need a birth certificate... All you need is a primary form of ID (state ID or passport) And something that says you live in WA... DOL ID Info Personally I'd get the drivers license since it doesn't affect you one way or the other... The only restriction they have in this state is that you can only have either the ID or the DL of THIS state. |
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If you are still a resident of Montana, and it sounds like that is the case, the least amount of hassle is going to be for you to arrange for the rifle to be sent to an FFL in MT and have it transferred to you the next time you are home. For those who don't know residents of Montana may only make an out of state purchase of rifles or shotguns in states contiguous to Montana. True but in order to get a DL in this State the requirement is not to be a resident of the state but have a residence in the state. Quoted:
Devry University just outside Federal Way. so I have 1 vote for taking a weekend trip back to montana and 3 votes give up residency  No you wouldn't be giving up Montana residence, you would only be getting a DL from this State. |
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If you are still a resident of Montana, and it sounds like that is the case, the least amount of hassle is going to be for you to arrange for the rifle to be sent to an FFL in MT and have it transferred to you the next time you are home. For those who don't know residents of Montana may only make an out of state purchase of rifles or shotguns in states contiguous to Montana. Did not know that! Phil is so full of wisdom.........I recognize the master! (bows) |
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[snip] No you wouldn't be giving up Montana residence, you would only be getting a DL from this State. So it would make my old DL invalid but I wouldn't be required to change plates or anything? It would only make your WA ID invalid(but you don't have one)... I still drive with my PR license in PR and my Florida License in Florida(except it expires in three weeks for me)... |
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No you wouldn't be giving up Montana residence, you would only be getting a DL from this State. So it would make my old DL invalid but I wouldn't be required to change plates or anything? It would only make your WA ID invalid(but you don't have one)... I still drive with my PR license in PR and my Florida License in Florida(except it expires in three weeks for me)... 
RCW 46.20.001 License required — Rights and restriction. (1) No person may drive a motor vehicle upon a highway in this state without first obtaining a valid driver's license issued to Washington residents under this chapter. The only exceptions to this requirement are those expressly allowed by RCW 46.20.025. (2) A person licensed as a driver under this chapter: (a) May exercise the privilege upon all highways in this state; (b) May not be required by a political subdivision to obtain any other license to exercise the privilege; and (c) May not have more than one valid driver's license at any time. You're going to find similar laws on the books in most if not every state. The BATF allows for college students/dual residency, but the MT law is outside of the BATFs purview ATF Rul. 80-21
"State of residence" is defined by regulation in 27 CFR 178.11 as the State in which an individual regularly resides or maintains a home. The regulation also provides an example of an individual who maintains a home in State X and a home in State Y. The individual regularly resides in State X except for the summer months and in State Y for the summer months of the year. The regulation states that during the time the individual actually resides in State X he is a resident of State X, and during the time he actually resides in State Y he is a resident of State Y. Applying the above example to outof- State college students it is held, that during the time the students actually reside in a college dormitory or at an off-campus location they are considered residents of the State where the dormitory or off-campus home is located. During the time outof- State college students actually reside in their home State they are considered residents of their home State. [ATFB 1980-4 25] What you have done is put the dealer in a jam. You were in once already with a MT ID and were denied the sale and now you're going to show up with a WA ID, That's should set off their WTF radar. |
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Ok ready for this one there Phil???
I had a customer who worked on the slope. After an accident with a crew bus up there(not him) they required the entire crew to have a CDL (an Alaskan CDL) Since you are not allowed to hold a DL in more than one state he had to get an Alaskan DL which had his Chehalis address on it.  Of course the state would not accept this for his WA state residency as required. 
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I had to deal with this when I moved to WA state a some years ago, so I'll let you know what I learned and was told...
*If you are living in WA state as a resident (not just have a second home or something) legally you are supposed to get a WA DL/ID with the WA address on it. (there are some rules that define whether your presence here constitutes residency, which you can lookup, and being a student is an exception) *If your vehicle is registered out-of-state, then you are only legally allowed to keep it in the state up to 14 continuous days (or something close to that, it maybe 10 or 15. I was pulled over by an officer and told that my plate had previously been recorded and that if they found me to be residing in the state they would site me, but it's hard for them to prove you didn't leave the state within a certain time frame, so it's kind of an empty threat). *If you want to keep your MT residency and want to have a WA ID card, you are supposed to put your MT address on the form, not your WA address. Since you need to have a WA ID/DL with a WA address on it to receive a firearm transfer from a FFL in WA, you're kind of stuck... Get the WA DL/ID to solve that problem. You don't have to register your vehicle in WA state as a result of getting a WA DL, but you are supposed to give your insurance company your current DL# so they can monitor your driving record and when you do that they will ask why the vehicle is located/registered somewhere different and when they find out it's actually in the urban area around Seattle/Tacoma they will probably raise your rates. IMHO, the cheapest solution is to get a WA DL so you can receive transfers through WA FFL's, don't tell your insurance company about the WA DL#, and continue your vehicle registration in MT @ your current rates. This is what I did... and truth be told an added bonus was that when I got a couple of speeding tickets in WA, my insurance company never found out about it because they weren't monitoring a WA DL#, they were monitoring a DL# from another state. Hope that helps... |
| Phil question on your dual residency post. As the law you stated wouldn't I be considered a WA resident since this is the state I am currently residing in thus not subject to MT's bordering state law? I saw where you said the MT law holds more weight than the ATF article you posted but I'm not quite sure I understand why. |
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When you go back to MT go in and say you lost your DL. Then you will have two MT DLs. When you get back to WA take your old MT DL in get it punched and get a WA DL. Or wait till spring break. Or even better, get a WA DL, pick up the gun, next time you are home, go get a MT DL. Totally legal, you'll be getting a gun in WA while you're a WA resident, and when you move back to MT, you'll be bringing the firearm with you, JUST LIKE ANY SINGLE RESIDENCY MOVE. You'll hafta keep paying the fee to get a new DL, but you'll be inside the law, and you'll waste the least amount of time. Military folks do shit like that all the time. I lost count of how many new military IDs I needed, but it was at least 3/year. 
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I believe you could make the transfer at an Idaho dealer since it is a state contiguous to MT. Saves an hour or so of driving... I tried to find a dealer but he didn't wanna touch it with a 10 foot pole because 3 states were involved and he couldn't recommend any other dealer in the state that would want to touch it o.o |
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I believe you could make the transfer at an Idaho dealer since it is a state contiguous to MT. Saves an hour or so of driving... I tried to find a dealer but he didn't wanna touch it with a 10 foot pole because 3 states were involved and he couldn't recommend any other dealer in the state that would want to touch it o.o Ok first... Is the gun already in WA or is it still in some other state? If it's already in WA just go get your state ID (not drivers license) and go pick it up. This way you have only ONE drivers license BUT you have a WA state ID... And for all intents and purposes all you need is a valid ID. ID on page 2! |
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Phil question on your dual residency post. As the law you stated wouldn't I be considered a WA resident since this is the state I am currently residing in thus not subject to MT's bordering state law? I saw where you said the MT law holds more weight than the ATF article you posted but I'm not quite sure I understand why. You aren't subject to MTs law if you are a WA resident, you'll have to supply the dealer with proof of WA residency. You can't hand them a MT DL and just tell them you're living in WA. You have to convince them you are on the up and up enough that they'll do business with you. A licensee may transfer a longgun to a non licensee from another state only if the sale is legal in both places. The dealer knew you were from MT, he knew the sale would not be legal, and he denied you the sale. May a licensed dealer sell a
firearm to a nonlicensee who is a resident of another State? Generally, a firearm may not lawfully be sold by a licensed dealer to a nonlicensee who resides in a State other than the State in which the seller’s licensed premises is located. However, the sale may be made if the firearm is shipped to a licensed dealer whose business is in the purchaser’s State of residence and the purchaser takes delivery of the firearm from the dealer in his or her State of residence. In addition, a licensee may sell a rifle or shotgun to a person who is not a resident of the State where the licensee’s business premises is located in an over-the-counter transaction, provided the transaction complies with State law in the State where the licensee is located and in the State where the purchaser resides. |