Posted: 11/4/2008 12:31:46 PM EDT
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Since phil is the legal expert, I'm having an argument in team regarding spitting...
Spitting is a battery or simple assault. Most people seem to believe that they would be justified in beating up somone after they are spit on. I don't believe that you could argue self defense in court, mostly because you are only justified in using "reasonable force" to answer to a threat. What say you all? Who is right? Does anyone know of any cases that specifically cover this? I know busta rhymes was arrested for assault after his car got spit on, but that is a slightly different situation... Be objective. We all know its insulting and would like to beat someone up for insulting us, but really? Prove me wrong. http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=75&t=781797&page=1 |
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Quoted:
simple assault in King co anyway. I agree that it is an assault, but I dont think you can justify beating somone up for it under the "reasonable force" issue. I found a source (not a primary authority) that says you could push somone away if you believe they are about to spit on you... but? |
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I'm not a legal expert, neither did I stay at a Holiday Inn last night.
Like most people I am constantly learning more about those things that interest me and firearms and staying out of jail over them interests me. What to do when someone spits on me never has been a concern of mine. Punch them, Pepperspray them, or whatever; call 911, and make the report. If needed stand tall in front of the judge and rest on the reasonable man standard. RCW 9A.16.020 Use of force — When lawful. The use, attempt, or offer to use force upon or toward the person of another is not unlawful in the following cases: (1) Whenever necessarily used by a public officer in the performance of a legal duty, or a person assisting the officer and acting under the officer's direction; (2) Whenever necessarily used by a person arresting one who has committed a felony and delivering him or her to a public officer competent to receive him or her into custody; (3) Whenever used by a party about to be injured, or by another lawfully aiding him or her, in preventing or attempting to prevent an offense against his or her person, or a malicious trespass, or other malicious interference with real or personal property lawfully in his or her possession, in case the force is not more than is necessary; (4) Whenever reasonably used by a person to detain someone who enters or remains unlawfully in a building or on real property lawfully in the possession of such person, so long as such detention is reasonable in duration and manner to investigate the reason for the detained person's presence on the premises, and so long as the premises in question did not reasonably appear to be intended to be open to members of the public; (5) Whenever used by a carrier of passengers or the carrier's authorized agent or servant, or other person assisting them at their request in expelling from a carriage, railway car, vessel, or other vehicle, a passenger who refuses to obey a lawful and reasonable regulation prescribed for the conduct of passengers, if such vehicle has first been stopped and the force used is not more than is necessary to expel the offender with reasonable regard to the offender's personal safety; (6) Whenever used by any person to prevent a mentally ill, mentally incompetent, or mentally disabled person from committing an act dangerous to any person, or in enforcing necessary restraint for the protection or restoration to health of the person, during such period only as is necessary to obtain legal authority for the restraint or custody of the person. The crime of battery isn't defined in the RCWs RCW 9A.36.011
Assault in the first degree. (1) A person is guilty of assault in the first degree if he or she, with intent to inflict great bodily harm: (a) Assaults another with a firearm or any deadly weapon or by any force or means likely to produce great bodily harm or death; or (b) Administers, exposes, or transmits to or causes to be taken by another, poison, the human immunodeficiency virus as defined in chapter 70.24 RCW, or any other destructive or noxious substance; or (c) Assaults another and inflicts great bodily harm. (2) Assault in the first degree is a class A felony. RCW 9A.36.021 Assault in the second degree. (1) A person is guilty of assault in the second degree if he or she, under circumstances not amounting to assault in the first degree: (a) Intentionally assaults another and thereby recklessly inflicts substantial bodily harm; or (b) Intentionally and unlawfully causes substantial bodily harm to an unborn quick child by intentionally and unlawfully inflicting any injury upon the mother of such child; or (c) Assaults another with a deadly weapon; or (d) With intent to inflict bodily harm, administers to or causes to be taken by another, poison or any other destructive or noxious substance; or (e) With intent to commit a felony, assaults another; or (f) Knowingly inflicts bodily harm which by design causes such pain or agony as to be the equivalent of that produced by torture; or (g) Assaults another by strangulation. (2)(a) Except as provided in (b) of this subsection, assault in the second degree is a class B felony. (b) Assault in the second degree with a finding of sexual motivation under RCW 9.94A.835 or 13.40.135 is a class A felony. RCW 9A.36.031 Assault in the third degree. (1) A person is guilty of assault in the third degree if he or she, under circumstances not amounting to assault in the first or second degree: (a) With intent to prevent or resist the execution of any lawful process or mandate of any court officer or the lawful apprehension or detention of himself or another person, assaults another; or (b) Assaults a person employed as a transit operator or driver, the immediate supervisor of a transit operator or driver, a mechanic, or a security officer, by a public or private transit company or a contracted transit service provider, while that person is performing his or her official duties at the time of the assault; or (c) Assaults a school bus driver, the immediate supervisor of a driver, a mechanic, or a security officer, employed by a school district transportation service or a private company under contract for transportation services with a school district, while the person is performing his or her official duties at the time of the assault; or (d) With criminal negligence, causes bodily harm to another person by means of a weapon or other instrument or thing likely to produce bodily harm; or (e) Assaults a firefighter or other employee of a fire department, county fire marshal's office, county fire prevention bureau, or fire protection district who was performing his or her official duties at the time of the assault; or (f) With criminal negligence, causes bodily harm accompanied by substantial pain that extends for a period sufficient to cause considerable suffering; or (g) Assaults a law enforcement officer or other employee of a law enforcement agency who was performing his or her official duties at the time of the assault; or (h) Assaults a peace officer with a projectile stun gun; or (i) Assaults a nurse, physician, or health care provider who was performing his or her nursing or health care duties at the time of the assault. For purposes of this subsection: "Nurse" means a person licensed under chapter 18.79 RCW; "physician" means a person licensed under chapter 18.57 or 18.71 RCW; and "health care provider" means a person certified under chapter 18.71 or 18.73 RCW who performs emergency medical services or a person regulated under Title 18 RCW and employed by, or contracting with, a hospital licensed under chapter 70.41 RCW. (2) Assault in the third degree is a class C felony. ETA- I'm having an argument in team regarding spitting... do your ownhomework.
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Assault is the threat of battery. Battery is unwanted touching. Spitting is touching. You can do what "a reasonable man" would do to keep from being touched or spit on. Quoted:
The use of force is to stop or prevent continuation of the assault on your person. That makes reasonable sense, however, and I should have elaborated, the situation that we're arguing about is in regards to someone spitting on you in passing. That would require chasing down the person who just spit on you, obviously, the threat has already passed! |
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Quoted:
Everything there seems to indicate that using force to PREVENT the issue is alright, using force AFTER the act of spitting can't be a defense. Dunno... I couldn't find any case law on LEXIS... Generally speaking, what you say is true. One can use force until the threat or harm stops. After the threat or harm stops, if the person who was assaulted decides to re-engage the offender, then the roles have reversed. The gray area where prosecutors and police like to be as lenient as possible is the "until the threat or harm stops". Sometimes the threat or harm is black and white, and sometimes its pretty gray. Someone shoving you and running off is pretty black and white. Someone shoving you and then waits across the street is kind of gray. Are they menacing and a threat or have they completely disengaged? There are no B&W answers to these subjective ordinances. It almost always comes down to a "reasonable man" standard. Then there's the whole citizen's arrest can of worms if you really want some headaches. |
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As I see it there are three real life issues:
What's legal. What's right. What is likely to put you in jail. Two scenarios Chasing down and beating someone to death. Turning around and grabbing someone who is an arms length away then punching them once in the face. I said it before and it's been said a few other time the Reasonable Man Standard is a cornerstone of the legal system. |