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AR15.COM
9/17/2008 9:19:35 PM EDT
Ok so its time to pass on some of that wisdom thats floating around out there...

Can you guys explain and elaborate on barrel rifling and twist rate, the differences and the affects of gas system length and why the difference  pros and cons of each.

Dont be affraid of being long winded I like information so the more the better!
9/17/2008 9:34:36 PM EDT
[#1]
Start here  It's not bad.

T=150 x D                                                        
      ---                                                      
       R        

More on Twist Rates
9/17/2008 9:49:51 PM EDT
[#2]
OK Im with ya so far... fast twist rate-large bullet...slow twist small bullet.

If the slow twist of a 1/12 wont stabilize say a 70gr .223 but shoots a 50gr great what would the result be of a fast twist small bullet (1/7 and 50gr)
9/17/2008 9:54:33 PM EDT
[#3]
Good chance it would rip the jacket right off the bullet.

That isn't great for accuracy.
9/17/2008 9:56:51 PM EDT
[#4]
I dont get it lots of barrels are 1/7 1/9 is there a lot of ammo out there that is 70gr?
I ask because I see mostly 45-60gr
9/17/2008 9:59:14 PM EDT
[#5]
An over stabilized bullets longitudinal axis doesn't follow the path of the trajectory.  

9/17/2008 10:02:47 PM EDT
[#6]
What about if we throw in the variable of barrel length and gas system length?
9/17/2008 10:11:24 PM EDT
[#7]
Gas system length has no bearing on bullet stability.

Barrel length does in that velocity has an effect.

So does temperature, elevation, barometric pressure and humidity (air density).


Wait until you get to the magnus effect and spindrift.
9/17/2008 10:17:26 PM EDT
[#8]
I am not so worried about minute variations but I would like to be able to throw any old ammo( from the 65-45gr range) in a machine and have it run like a top.
Magnus is the curve ball thing right I would think a horizontal axis would change that
9/17/2008 10:19:34 PM EDT
[#9]
1:9

Meh all the threads I linked were all archived.
9/17/2008 10:23:02 PM EDT
[#10]

Quoted:
I am not so worried about minute variations but I would like to be able to throw any old ammo( from the 65-45gr range) in a machine and have it run like a top.


You'll probably just want to go with the 1/9 rate then.  There are more and more of the 70-75 grain bullets being loaded now, so the 1/7 barrels are becoming more desired. But those rounds are a bit more expensive than the Federal, or Magtech 55 grain FMJs that I'm fond of (they're fairly cheap).  And those heavy rounds aren't nearly as common as you've already pointed out.
The 1/9 is the closest to a universal rifling you'll find.  You may or may not be accurate with the heavier rounds as well.  It seems to vary from rifle to rifle.
9/17/2008 10:29:15 PM EDT
[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I am not so worried about minute variations but I would like to be able to throw any old ammo( from the 65-45gr range) in a machine and have it run like a top.


You'll probably just want to go with the 1/9 rate then.  There are more and more of the 70-75 grain bullets being loaded now, so the 1/7 barrels are becoming more desired. But those rounds are a bit more expensive than the Federal, or Magtech 55 grain FMJs that I'm fond of (they're fairly cheap).  And those heavy rounds aren't nearly as common as you've already pointed out.
The 1/9 is the closest to a universal rifling you'll find.  You may or may not be accurate with the heavier rounds as well.  It seems to vary from rifle to rifle.


You keep posting like that and I will be moving you from the back room to the front in know time. Don't you need to get some sleep? You busted ass back there today, great job!
9/17/2008 10:39:22 PM EDT
[#12]
Well Ive got a line on a colt 14.5 1/12 230 shipped will I be dissapointed?
9/17/2008 11:33:05 PM EDT
[#13]

Quoted:
Well Ive got a line on a colt 14.5 1/12 230 shipped will I be dissapointed?


My opinion on this is, build the gun for what you're going to use it for.  Don't build the gun then try to figure out what it's good for.

Personally I wouldn't touch a 5.56 AR with anything over a 1/9.  Mine is 1/7 since I keep 77grain rounds in the mags for SHTF.
9/17/2008 11:36:46 PM EDT
[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Well Ive got a line on a colt 14.5 1/12 230 shipped will I be dissapointed?


My opinion on this is, build the gun for what you're going to use it for.  Don't build the gun then try to figure out what it's good for.

Personally I wouldn't touch a 5.56 AR with anything over a 1/9.  Mine is 1/7 since I keep 77grain rounds in the mags for SHTF.


My Man!!!!
9/18/2008 8:33:06 AM EDT
[#15]
Knew a guy once who had a 1x7 hotrod rifle-- bought some 45gr open-tipped bullets for unspecified "varmint" usage. He couldn't get them to print on paper and was blaming the bullets. I moved off to the side and watched him shoot-- you could see a gray smudge in midair about thirty yards out as the bullets disintegrated in midair. . . . .
9/18/2008 8:37:31 AM EDT
[#16]
55gr M193 shoots fine with a 1/7 (much cheaper for training with), but I don't think I'd try anything lighter through mine.

In addition to being ineffective, it probably isn't great for the barrel either.  That bullet could be starting the process of self destruction before it ever leaves the tube.
9/18/2008 8:50:31 AM EDT
[#17]
The lighter bullets are generally of the varmint hunting types; designed to come apart when they hit a small critter.

They have thin jackets and other features which make them relatively fragile.
9/18/2008 8:57:04 AM EDT
[#18]
The big problem I see with anything heavy (IE 70gr and up) is the length of the cartridge. If it hits the lands on a AR you could be in real trouble. I get very good accuracy with the 68gr (hornady) out of my 24" Bull barrel. I had another 24" I sold and it shot them very well also. In 16" they shot pretty good but the 62gr shot better.

ETA: all my barrels are 1/9