Posted: 8/30/2006 2:06:14 PM EDT
From an email...  
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[devil's advocate] What if the people came together and put it to a vote, and decided that each household would pay a nominal fee in order to have one number to call in order to get a peace officer dispatched to their house in case of emergency? Would that work? Of course in the case of a very large population, groups of neighborhoods would choose someone to represent them and then have them submit their vote for them.... [/devil's advocate] |
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If you try to force me to do something that I am not willing to do, I have the right to resist using any necessary force. Whether I will or not is based upon my appraisal of the costs and benefits of taking any particular course of action. Allowing a majority of people to force others to do anything, with the exception of preventing them from harming others or their property, is wrong. If I could get 80% of the population to advocate you all giving me 10% of your income so that I could buy midget pornography, it would be wrong, just as if I had it done in order to set up a super-duper system to protect you from yourselves. All taxation is armed robbery. What you can legitimately do is form such an organization and fund it with the money of those willing to pay in. If someone like me--who refuses to pay the protection money--attempts to use your service, R-32 could just laugh at me and say "dumbass, ya should've paid us. Now you're bleeding out and we're not going to dispatch an ambulance unless you pay us $5000 in cash on arrival." Just as many ambulance services have been privatized, the rest of the system should stop funding its operations with stolen money. Each organization can determine how they will charge for their services or request donations. |
I don't neccisarrily disagree with you...problem is, how are you going to convince the 80% believe that my earlier statement is how THEY want to do it? You would then be forcing them to do something THEY don't want to do.... Makes you a bit cross eyed eh? |
They have a right to injure themselves, they do ot have a right to injure someone else against the individuals will. It is about right and wrong PCR-00, it is not difficult at all. |
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They can do whatever they want IF they do not harm me or my property. The current funding model requires me to pay or my property will be seized or I will be imprisoned (depending upon exactly which tax I elect not to pay). If they wanted to be legitimate, they would have to just deny me those services for failing to pay for them instead of punishing me for not coughing up the dough. I think 911 service is overall a fairly good thing. It just needs a lot of reform, as does damn near everything the government hass gotten a hold of and turned into an ovewhelmingly confusing mess rife with ineptitude and corruption. It should be funded more by donations and payments for services. Perhaps charging a high fee to the people who call for absurd reasons, like that woman who called to complain about her hamburger, would offset many of the costs. More extensive use of volunteers could cut costs significantly. The world is always in a state of anarchy. The only difference when there is a governmental body is that one organization is recognized as having more legitimacy as others. In other words, government is merely a monopoly not unlike Wal-Mart. The only difference is that most people accept that the government can "tax" us even if we choose not to use the services they offer. Wal-Mart cannot send goons to my house to make me pay for things I never purchased, and the government should not be able to either. |
As are all of you I am taxed for everything, I really do not have a problem with that, I have a problem with how it is used. 1st case, I bought property in Sumner in 1972. My next door neighbor was a Cambodian. OK so far, he imported his mother from the old country and bragged to me that she got $1501.00 a month from the grovernment. I was on 80% disability from the war and got $1257.00 a month. This old woman never ever gave a darn thing to the United States and she gets more than I. THATS THE KIND OF THING I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH. There are many more examples but I am sure you get the idea. 
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The power to tax is the power to destroy, you may not mind paying the tax because it is not burdensome to you but those who's income is fixed, it is the same as a prison sentence ending in death. It is not about whether the money goes for a good cause or not but they do not have the right to steal through armed robbery in the first place. |
I disagree, looking forward to debating the points at the meet. Some of the money got to do good, most is wasted, I will give you that. Unless we go back to horse and buggy (that might not be a bad thing) taxes are needed for the infrastructure. |
So are you saying that my job is not honest?.How is my paycheck not honest?. My pay comes from all of the departments in the county chipping in, and the user fee's from telephone bills and cell phones...
I don't make threats to people, I work for a private Not for proft agency, We do not put out anything for funding on a ballot in this county, nothing for anyone to vote on. To the best of my knowledge no one has ever had a boot put on their neck because becauese they did not pay my business. In fact we do not charge the citizens, we receive funding from user agencies. |
Just because you are once removed from the actual robbery of the property owner's money does not mean it is not criminal, you are no better than the mob boss that sends the goons to break legs for him, actually organized crime is more a serious in my opinion than petty theft. Not only does property taxes go to services so does taxes on phone bills, so you can add extortion to the list of charges.
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The answer to that is in your next sentence:
The county gets all of its money through theft and robbery, then gives some to your organization.
The solution to the problems I perceive with your organization is to merely change the funding model to one consistent with capitalism, instead of the current one which reeks of socialism. |
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SARS I'm at work right now, so I really dont have time to get into all of your arguments here, but I look forward to playing later when I get home or in the morning..just brief.. You have some good points, and a couple of suggestions that you made that are already the case.. then you have some way the hell out there sorta stuff..  Now I have to get back to 
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So its like people who use arfcom, they have a membership fee and sponsors to help cover costs of running the site. Thanks ED for letting me still be involved in your forum for 2 years for free. Now if we get rid of all these 'armed robbery' taxes, who should cover the costs of everything? or will the various tolls on roads and other infrastructure be so high that I can't afford it even if I wanted to. I agree that taxation and other fees are getting ridiculous, but feel better oversight in how money is spent is better than complete abolishment. short on time now but i'll be revisiting this discussion later. |
Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago and our nation was the most prosperous in the world, had absolutely no national debt, had the largest middle class in the world, and Mom stayed home to raise the kids. hmmmm....... |
It's important not to confuse correlation with causation. 1910 Child labor in coal mines, photo by Lewis Hines  Child labor was for all intents unrestricted 100 years ago and our nation was the most prosperous in the world, had absolutely no national debt, had the largest middle class in the world, and Mom stayed home to raise the kids. It's interesting to note that the radical left will claim that the lowering of tax rates from the Kennedy Johnson reduction through Bushs last tax cuts are a prime cause of the decrease in the middle class and are often pointed to as proof of the conservatives "war" on the middle class. |
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The simple fact remains, taxes destroy, there is no way to take money away from people that produced it, give it to people (bureuarats) who produce nothing but waste and have a more efficient society. .gov is a reaction to evil and a evil in and of it's self, the only way to keep evil small is to keep government small. "that government governs best which governs least" T. Jefferson. Child labor was a gov protected monopoly just like the chinese child slave sweat shops of today. Show me any great evil in the world and I will show you an evil government behind it.
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O.K. im being a little bit simplistic but here it goes, April 19,1775 Lexington-Concord WeThePoeple fired up the british because they came to impound the guns because we killed some soldiers because they killed some rioters who rioted because a few of them raped a few of our women and got away with it when we were forced to quarter them in our homes we were forced to quarter them because we got uppity and would not co-operate with their warrantless searches wich were"nescessary" to investigate the"terrorists" who refused to shut up and stop printing inciteing and controversial pamphlets and also demonstated against them by thowing tea in boston harbor because of a unjust and unusualy burdensome 1% TAX |