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Posted: 3/11/2006 6:35:13 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 6:44:33 PM EDT
Too far away for me.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 6:52:22 PM EDT
Rifle qualification courses are held regulary here, whats your excuse ?

Although I prefer team competitions as it teachs working together which in my opinion is of more value.

Link Posted: 3/11/2006 7:12:15 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 7:18:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By OdT:
No excuse to offer Strat.... but I was talking about the fun it looked like.... what do you know about fun?nothing really, ive heard people talk about it but no real idea of what it is.

It's not my first preference either, but it still made me want to try it..... it's all good.



I think we can come up with a team competition game that will both teach and be a great deal fun.

What do you think of a shoot and move course set to a par time ?
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 7:41:51 PM EDT
In my experience par courses aren't that good for large competitions. They are a good tool for a group of people in the same skill level. However, if you use it at a competition where you have a variety of people, the par time doesn't let the less experienced shooters get any training value out of it... they just fail to get par.

Team competitions are ok if you have pre-formed teams. But if you just show up, you run the risk of being stuck with a crap team or team members who are not at the same skill level, safety level, etc.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 7:49:08 PM EDT
I only live about 45-60mins away from there... I have no excuse!
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 8:05:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GackMan:
In my experience par courses aren't that good for large competitions. They are a good tool for a group of people in the same skill level. However, if you use it at a competition where you have a variety of people, the par time doesn't let the less experienced shooters get any training value out of it... they just fail to get par.two things here, what about adjusting the par time to keep it within the capabilities of the participants, and making sure the high speed types are evenly distributed amongst the teams, with team members randomely changing ?

I am sure some of us have experienced unmotivated and unskilled team members before, both in real situations and practice/training events, learning to utilize the assets you have is of great value


Team competitions are ok if you have pre-formed teams. But if you just show up, you run the risk of being stuck with a crap team or team members who are not at the same skill level, safety level, etc. I imagine with really large numbers this is true but most the state county level shoots are not that big that this is a problem.


Ofcourse standardizing the game along with publishing the course and rules can also deal with the large scale events just like the IDPA type courses.


Link Posted: 3/11/2006 9:39:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By STRATIOTES:
What do you think of a shoot and move course set to a par time gangsta rap ?



Link Posted: 3/11/2006 9:40:59 PM EDT
I had to work today and tomorrow so I couldn't make it down, sorry guys. Looks like Kooter shot 21st out of 60 shooters, damn good shooting.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 6:30:03 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 7:58:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By STRATIOTES:

Originally Posted By OdT:
No excuse to offer Strat.... but I was talking about the fun it looked like.... what do you know about fun?nothing really, ive heard people talk about it but no real idea of what it is.

It's not my first preference either, but it still made me want to try it..... it's all good.



I think we can come up with a team competition game that will both teach and be a great deal fun.

What do you think of a shoot and move course set to a par time ?




Good morning All. First off The Match is just that ,a shoot and move exercise. At least most of the stages are. ( this match takes place in a giant active gravel pit that changes every month) Ranges will also vary 20 to say 300 yards. Sometimes in the same stage. Often you start with a handgun and fight your way to a rifle. And it changes each month. There are also specialty matches during the year. Like a sniper match a WWII battle rifle match , 3 gun match and a Night match. ( my favorite).

This type of match is a great way to learn about your equipment and it's limitations.

IF you want to start a team match Look at the rules for PR. they would be easily adapted to a team event. But remember, Difficulty and danger to participants goes up when you have more than one person moving and shooting at the same time. If I get what Strat is suggesting. This is the only match I know of where the match director carries Quick Clot.

You will also need to get a lot of equipment. We shoot a lot of steel here mainly to save time taping paper.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 11:07:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By STRATIOTES:

Originally Posted By GackMan:
In my experience par courses aren't that good for large competitions. They are a good tool for a group of people in the same skill level. However, if you use it at a competition where you have a variety of people, the par time doesn't let the less experienced shooters get any training value out of it... they just fail to get par.two things here, what about adjusting the par time to keep it within the capabilities of the participants, and making sure the high speed types are evenly distributed amongst the teams, with team members randomely changing ?

I am sure some of us have experienced unmotivated and unskilled team members before, both in real situations and practice/training events, learning to utilize the assets you have is of great value


Team competitions are ok if you have pre-formed teams. But if you just show up, you run the risk of being stuck with a crap team or team members who are not at the same skill level, safety level, etc. I imagine with really large numbers this is true but most the state county level shoots are not that big that this is a problem.


Ofcourse standardizing the game along with publishing the course and rules can also deal with the large scale events just like the IDPA type courses.





I'm just saying that for a team event - you won't see me particitpating in a team event if means I am downrange and shooting with and ad hoc group of people I don't know or train with regularly... some guy named bubba who I just got squadded up with at a once a month rifle match.

Link Posted: 3/12/2006 12:56:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GackMan:

Originally Posted By STRATIOTES:

Originally Posted By GackMan:
In my experience par courses aren't that good for large competitions. They are a good tool for a group of people in the same skill level. However, if you use it at a competition where you have a variety of people, the par time doesn't let the less experienced shooters get any training value out of it... they just fail to get par.two things here, what about adjusting the par time to keep it within the capabilities of the participants, and making sure the high speed types are evenly distributed amongst the teams, with team members randomely changing ?

I am sure some of us have experienced unmotivated and unskilled team members before, both in real situations and practice/training events, learning to utilize the assets you have is of great value


Team competitions are ok if you have pre-formed teams. But if you just show up, you run the risk of being stuck with a crap team or team members who are not at the same skill level, safety level, etc. I imagine with really large numbers this is true but most the state county level shoots are not that big that this is a problem.


Ofcourse standardizing the game along with publishing the course and rules can also deal with the large scale events just like the IDPA type courses.





I'm just saying that for a team event - you won't see me particitpating in a team event if means I am downrange and shooting with and ad hoc group of people I don't know or train with regularly... some guy named bubba who I just got squadded up with at a once a month rifle match.




I think GackMan is correct, best to start an individual event then maybe a side match for two man teams at most. This stuff can tack forever, if one person is slow or has equipment problems all day. It can ruin everyones day.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 1:09:20 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 1:22:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By petagunner:
Odt, great to meet you! And for those of you who think it is too far away, I drive over 180 miles one way to travel up to Portland to shoot that match once a month. For fun, learning and to sharpen your skills, it's like a sore pecker.....hard to beat.

I've only been shooting these since last November or December...somewhere in there, but from my POV you can show up there as a total gamer and try to beat yourself up and make it in the top ten, you can show up and try to have fun or you can do both. That is the neat thing about that match. It is exactly what you want to make of it. Whether or not you have a new rifle, or new optic set up and just want to see how it will work in different scenarios....or if you have the latest and greatest tac vest, whatever it is, it's a great opportunity to try it out.

The other great part of that match is the folks who run it and the folks who participate in it, great people all the way around!




Damm I knew you traveled a long ways but not that far. Most people use this match as a training exercise. I do. I try to apply what I learn else where. and go at it. Some guy's game it but most don't. Where else can you go to the range and shoot in the mud while carrying 12 mags for an AR handgun with extra ammo and a BIG FUCKING KNIFE! Believe me this is a trip.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 1:27:55 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 2:28:33 PM EDT
You guys missed a great time!!!

I didn't go down expecting to win or anything like that. I went down to try something new and have fun. I was squadded with a great bunch of guys that were mostly correctional officers. They decided to use AKs for the match this time. All were great shooters, but those 235 yard targets gave the AK guys a hard time.

I learned that my Eotech is even more awsome than I thought it was before. Longest distance I have ever shot through it is the gravel pit at LCR. Once I figured where I was hitting at the 235 yard targets I was able to hold just slightly higher and nail them.

The way they scored it seemed kind of wierd to me. Total time doesn't matter. It is your rank in each stage that is what determines the winner. I ranked 51st on the first stage(I nailed a no shoot target right between the eyes), 7th on second stage, 40th on 3rd stage(easy targets, I just couldn't hit them for some reason), and 5th on the fourth stage. I whipped through the handgun on fourth stage fast. I couldn't believe the targets were going down. I figured the handgun stage is what would screw me up. It was the "easy" stages that got me.

If you guys haven't done it before you really need to give it a shot. It took me 2 hours to get there from Olympia, just so you have an idea of how long it will take you to get there.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 5:49:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2006 5:56:11 PM EDT by Cboyer]
I'm you guy's had a good time. I wish I could get there more often but that making a living thing tends to get in the way. I like this way more than IPSIC.
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