Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 2/10/2006 4:21:55 PM EDT
I was looking on gunbroker at a krinkov kit and the seller stated that it was not legal to own full auto components in WA state and if the buyer was from WA the bolt would not be included. I did a little snooping on the internet but couldnt find what I was looking for. I know that MGs are prohibited(I see how the .gov would ban parts as well) but are parts?
Thanks,
BJohnson
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 4:24:36 PM EDT
Yes parts are illegal.


RCW 9.41.190
Unlawful firearms -- Exceptions.

(1) It is unlawful for any person to manufacture, own, buy, sell, loan, furnish, transport, or have in possession or under control, any machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle; or any part designed and intended solely and exclusively for use in a machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle, or in converting a weapon into a machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle; or to assemble or repair any machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle.




RCW 9.41.010
Terms defined.

(7) "Machine gun" means any firearm known as a machine gun, mechanical rifle, submachine gun, or any other mechanism or instrument not requiring that the trigger be pressed for each shot and having a reservoir clip, disc, drum, belt, or other separable mechanical device for storing, carrying, or supplying ammunition which can be loaded into the firearm, mechanism, or instrument, and fired therefrom at the rate of five or more shots per second.

Link Posted: 2/10/2006 4:28:36 PM EDT
Thanks.

-BJohnson
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 4:34:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Phil_in_Seattle:
Yes parts are illegal.


RCW 9.41.190
Unlawful firearms -- Exceptions.

(1) It is unlawful for any person to manufacture, own, buy, sell, loan, furnish, transport, or have in possession or under control, any machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle; or any part designed and intended solely and exclusively for use in a machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle, or in converting a weapon into a machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle; or to assemble or repair any machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle.




RCW 9.41.010
Terms defined.

(7) "Machine gun" means any firearm known as a machine gun, mechanical rifle, submachine gun, or any other mechanism or instrument not requiring that the trigger be pressed for each shot and having a reservoir clip, disc, drum, belt, or other separable mechanical device for storing, carrying, or supplying ammunition which can be loaded into the firearm, mechanism, or instrument, and fired therefrom at the rate of five or more shots per second.




Okay, I'm just playin' here, but let's look at 9.41.010: the word "and" in the phrase having a rate of five or more shots per second tells me that if it shoots 4.5 rounds per second, I should be okay--yes?hat
Trey
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 4:50:04 PM EDT
Why would the bolt be excluded? Don't make no sense.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 4:50:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By twodeucetrey:

Okay, I'm just playin' here, but let's look at 9.41.010: the word "and" in the phrase having a rate of five or more shots per second tells me that if it shoots 4.5 rounds per second, I should be okay--yes?

btw, what ever happened to Big Al?

Trey



Assuming you can find an MG with a sub 300rd per minute ROF you'll still be in violation of Federal Law.


Machine gun. Any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be
readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without
manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall
also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed
and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and
intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machine gun, and any
combination of parts from which a machine gun can be assembled if such
parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.


Link Posted: 2/10/2006 5:54:22 PM EDT


Originally Posted By twodeucetrey:

Okay, I'm just playin' here, but let's look at 9.41.010: the word "and" in the phrase having a rate of five or more shots per second tells me that if it shoots 4.5 rounds per second, I should be okay--yes?

btw, what ever happened to Big Al?




The last I saw Big Al about was about 10 years ago. He was working in an attorneys office out of Sumner. He's friends with one of the Corliss Concrete sons.

My understanding.... When I ordered my krink kits they swapped out the fire control for semi auto and sent the bolt. So if the ass hat takes the bolt but sends you the full auto fire control you could land in the poky.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 6:53:32 PM EDT
The way I understood the law was the firing control group not the bolt. I dont think the bolt has anything to do with that. I could see the possibility of the carrier but in that case all you would have to do is grind down one spot on it to make it semi. The word "solely" means just that. The bolt and carrier can be used in any semi auto AK not just a full auto but the FCG in a full auto kit is designed "solely" for a full auto AK47. That is my understanding of the law but a call to the Attorney General might help clarify.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 11:13:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Phil_in_Seattle:
Yes parts are illegal.


RCW 9.41.190
Unlawful firearms -- Exceptions.

(1) It is unlawful for any person to manufacture, own, buy, sell, loan, furnish, transport, or have in possession or under control, any machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle; or any part designed and intended solely and exclusively for use in a machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle, or in converting a weapon into a machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle; or to assemble or repair any machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle.




RCW 9.41.010
Terms defined.

(7) "Machine gun" means any firearm known as a machine gun, mechanical rifle, submachine gun, or any other mechanism or instrument not requiring that the trigger be pressed for each shot and having a reservoir clip, disc, drum, belt, or other separable mechanical device for storing, carrying, or supplying ammunition which can be loaded into the firearm, mechanism, or instrument, and fired therefrom at the rate of five or more shots per second.





You guys pardon my ignorance but...


ex·cep·tion Audio pronunciation of "exception" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (k-spshn)
n.

1. The act of excepting or the condition of being excepted; exclusion.
2. One that is excepted, especially a case that does not conform to a rule or generalization.
3. An objection or a criticism: opinions that are open to exception.
4. Law. A formal objection taken in the course of an action or a proceeding.



What the word "exception" actually means there???
First time I read those stuff I thoght it meand "not included" in the "illegal firearms" list.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 11:58:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rossi:
You guys pardon my ignorance but...


ex·cep·tion Audio pronunciation of "exception" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (k-spshn)
n.

1. The act of excepting or the condition of being excepted; exclusion.
2. One that is excepted, especially a case that does not conform to a rule or generalization.
3. An objection or a criticism: opinions that are open to exception.
4. Law. A formal objection taken in the course of an action or a proceeding.



What the word "exception" actually means there???
First time I read those stuff I thoght it meand "not included" in the "illegal firearms" list.



More than one RCW contains the prohibition on parts




RCW 9.41.220
Unlawful firearms and parts contraband.

All machine guns, short-barreled shotguns, or short-barreled rifles, or any part designed and intended solely and exclusively for use in a machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle, or in converting a weapon into a machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle, illegally held or illegally possessed are hereby declared to be contraband, and it shall be the duty of all peace officers, and/or any officer or member of the armed forces of the United States or the state of Washington, to seize said machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle, or parts thereof, wherever and whenever found.





RCW 9.41.190
Unlawful firearms — Exceptions.


(1) It is unlawful for any person to manufacture, own, buy, sell, loan, furnish, transport, or have in possession or under control, any machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle; or any part designed and intended solely and exclusively for use in a machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle, or in converting a weapon into a machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle; or to assemble or repair any machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle.

(2) This section shall not apply to:

(a) Any peace officer in the discharge of official duty or traveling to or from official duty, or to any officer or member of the armed forces of the United States or the state of Washington in the discharge of official duty or traveling to or from official duty; or

(b) A person, including an employee of such person if the employee has undergone fingerprinting and a background check, who or which is exempt from or licensed under federal law, and engaged in the production, manufacture, repair, or testing of machine guns, short-barreled shotguns, or short-barreled rifles:

(i) To be used or purchased by the armed forces of the United States;

(ii) To be used or purchased by federal, state, county, or municipal law enforcement agencies; or

(iii) For exportation in compliance with all applicable federal laws and regulations.

(3) It shall be an affirmative defense to a prosecution brought under this section that the machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle was acquired prior to July 1, 1994, and is possessed in compliance with federal law.

Link Posted: 2/11/2006 3:02:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/11/2006 3:06:00 PM EDT by mordecai]

Post by Trey:

Originally Posted By twodeucetrey:
RCW 9.41.010
Terms defined.

(7) "Machine gun" means any firearm known as a machine gun, mechanical rifle, submachine gun, or any other mechanism or instrument not requiring that the trigger be pressed for each shot and having a reservoir clip, disc, drum, belt, or other separable mechanical device for storing, carrying, or supplying ammunition which can be loaded into the firearm, mechanism, or instrument, and fired therefrom at the rate of five or more shots per second.



Okay, I'm just playin' here, but let's look at 9.41.010: the word "and" in the phrase having a rate of five or more shots per second tells me that if it shoots 4.5 rounds per second, I should be okay--yes?

Trey



Feel free. All you would have to do is have something altered out of state and have it transferred in. Get an M11/9 with a TASK SLOWFIRE tuned down to say 250rds/min. then have it transferred to a C3 and then to you under the guise that it doesn't fit the definition of a WA ST MG. (This may be a lot more work than is worth it, considering you could semi-auto your finger faster than 250 rds/min, but that's not the point ) Maybe they wouldn't like the open-bolt nature of the M11/9... You might have to "go electronic" and have a regulator put on the trip.... Yea - kinda more work than its worth...
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 4:01:36 PM EDT
So all you guys with parts kits, what exactly do you throw out of them???????

I had mine shipped to me without the firing control parts. The bolt has nothing to do with F/A but the carrier does have a little notch on it that would need to be ground off.


Could someone please clarify as this is really confusing?
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 6:32:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2006 6:43:07 AM EDT by Landpimp]
glad I saw this.

I was going to buy a HK33 fullauto bolt carrier to use in my HK93, is this illigal or not in WA? the carier can be used in both a FA and SA.

Or do I have to have the carrier milled to remove the FA feature. The carrier itself cant make a Hk FA.

I was told Vector can ship their V93 with the HK33 full auto carrier into WA only in a complete gun, but not just the carrier seperate........which makes "perfect" (LOL) sense ;)
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 7:14:10 AM EDT
Landpimp, that sounds about right. Since the part works in both, it is not a "part designed and intended solely and exclusively for use in a machine gun"; both from a functional standpoint, as well as constructive since they sell whole S/A rifles with this same part.

And it sounds like Vector wants to rely on the very same logic by selling a whole-rifle but not risk a lone part, even though it fails the "sorta pregnant" test.

ASK101 - I can't speak to personal experience but typically I understand if such a kit were received, individuals usually toss such items as auto-sears, disconnectors, ratchets, relative pins, etc... Some of them can be salvaged by grinding off the auto-trips or such, where applicable, but generally it's not worth the effort if you're just going to buy an after-market Semi-Auto US-part-count Fire Control Group anyway.

IIRC, many of the "whole-AK-rifles" come with F/A bolt carriers already installed since its an interchangable part.

Link Posted: 2/13/2006 8:22:31 AM EDT
yeah it seems the law is writen loosely.......and open to interpitation.....which worries me, can read it how "we" want, which makes perfect sense.......but can be read if needed how "they" want..............fawking stupid laws :D
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 10:50:33 AM EDT
Yeah this wording needs to be clarified. Obviously it was written by some lawyer who doesn't know much about guns. The auto sears and parts like that are obvious. The bolt has nothing to do with anything and the carrier doesn't either unless it has those other parts that are "solely" for a f/a.

I am sure plenty of people on here have built a kit. I assume everyone is using the carrier.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 11:09:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2006 11:11:27 AM EDT by mordecai]
Really? Wow. I figure "intended solely and exclusively for use in a machine gun" is pretty black and white from a statutory perspective.

Now I wholly agree you will find prosecutorial-ambivalence inside the PA's subjective-discretion and interpretation, but this is attached to just about every statute that doesn't have mounds of case history on it; and personally, I'd like to see us leave this sleeping dog lie (unless you're going to have it removed). Sometimes it's the devil that you know....
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 5:23:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2006 5:26:52 PM EDT by FriedFish]
Big Al still owes me money which I paid him to supposedly join the WAC about 18 years ago. I filled out a form and he dropped my money into a large glass pickle jar he had sitting on the counter. That was the last I ever seen of it. I'm sure the form I filled out went into the circular file. Funny thing about this is that I wasn't the only one who experienced this.
Top Top