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Posted: 12/12/2005 5:17:43 PM EDT
www.king5.com/localnews/stories/NW_121205WABgunshowsJK.3592120.html


Police say a loophole in Washington law allows people to buy guns and gun shows without having to go through a background check.


They showed footage of the WAC show, who let the lying bastards in, i did not see them there sat.

dirty lying bastards.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 5:21:26 PM EDT
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. " Jefferson quoting criminologist Cesare Beccaria
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 5:37:47 PM EDT
Looks like old footage in the old building. The roof is too low. Given the media's history of slanting everything they report, it's not a good thing to see in the news.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 5:41:34 PM EDT

“We've traced guns back that had been involved in crimes that were obtained at gun shows,” said Seattle Police Chief Gil Kerlikowske.



What about firearms that are stolen out of cars, like the one you left unsecure Gil......?
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 5:44:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:
Looks like old footage in the old building. The roof is too low. Given the media's history of slanting everything they report, it's not a good thing to see in the news.



I just watched the report and thought the same thing.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 5:52:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NorthWestAR:

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:
Looks like old footage in the old building. The roof is too low. Given the media's history of slanting everything they report, it's not a good thing to see in the news.



I just watched the report and thought the same thing.



Thats not a gun show in any building that I've been in.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 6:32:57 PM EDT
I guess they forgot to mention that only members can buy firearms at the WAC shows and that members must pass the records check.

Asshats!
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 6:53:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gibby:
I guess they forgot to mention that only members can buy firearms at the WAC shows and that members must pass the records check.

Asshats!



Thats what so enraged me, they out right lied and most of the footage was from Wade's or some other gun-store, the gun table footage looked like it was taken from just above waist level, but one thing is for sure the media lied with malace of forethought and should be brought to justice for doing so.


The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that... it is their right and duty to be at all times armed;...Thomas Jefferson to Justice John Cartwright, 1824. ME 16:45.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 6:58:46 PM EDT
Exactly...I heard this on the radio tonight and thought exactly that...only WAC members can buy/sell guns. It looks like the head LE guy in Olympia must be out of the loop b/c he was the one yapping for the news guy about how the loop hole is so dangerous. I think he should read reports by the FBI/ATF that indicate few bad guys get their guns from shows.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 7:03:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2005 7:12:23 PM EDT by CarbineMonoxide]
I also saw an article today espousing the "Newspaper Loophole"...i.e. trying to get newspapers to stop taking classified ads for firearms

LEAVE LINK COLD

http://www.washingtonceasefire.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14&Itemid=33


At least they have a quote from Joe Waldron in the article..

Between this and Strats article and the Ceasefire poll yesterday, I believe the antis are starting an offensive this week.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 8:38:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gibby:
I guess they forgot to mention that only members can buy firearms at the WAC shows and that members must pass the records check.

Asshats!



+1
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 9:09:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CarbineMonoxide:
I believe the antis are starting an offensive this week.



Yet we never start any...
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 9:12:25 PM EDT
This is what happens when the gun control crowd gets their way. Of course, the bastards do not show up when this happens. Just made a big noise when the Brazilian population rejected more gun control in a recen referendum.



Deadly Attack Rattles Rio
Brazilian officials say a bus blaze that killed five people was a retaliatory assault by suspected drug traffickers. Some fear more violence.

By Henry Chu, Times Staff Writer

RIO DE JANEIRO — A deadly arson attack this week on a bus full of passengers has shocked residents of a city already accustomed to rampant crime and raised fears of a surge in violence on the cusp of the busy tourist season.

Five people were killed and several others hurt after a gang of suspected drug traffickers flagged down a bus, doused the interior and those aboard with gasoline and set everything ablaze. Among the dead were an infant and her mother, whose charred body was discovered atop her daughter, an apparent attempt to shield her baby from the flames.

ADVERTISEMENT
Brazilian authorities say that Tuesday night's attack was in retaliation to the recent police killing of an alleged drug runner from a nearby shantytown. Throughout the day, according to media reports, the local police station had been bombarded with phone calls from gang members vowing to wreak vengeance.

Cariocas, as residents of this popular travel destination are called, have become partially inured to the daily accounts of muggings, kidnappings and shootings that have marred Rio's reputation as Brazil's cidade maravilhosa, or "marvelous city" in Portuguese. But the brazenness and savagery of the arson attack, whose victims were innocent bystanders in the escalating conflict between drug traffickers and police, left many Cariocas shaken.

"Everything indicates that we are in a true civil war," a reader named Luiz Marcondes wrote to the newspaper O Globo, in a letter published in Thursday's editions. "When is it that government authorities … will start to intervene?"

The assault on the bus occurred at the onset of high season for the tourism industry, one of Rio's biggest sources of revenue. Officials are eager for nothing to alarm or dissuade visitors between now and the close of Rio's famed Carnaval early in the new year. Authorities normally tighten security during this period, especially on the streets and beaches of the affluent South Zone, where well-known neighborhoods such as Copacabana and Ipanema are located.

The arson occurred in a poor district in the northern part of the city, wedged between several squalid hillside neighborhoods known as favelas. These precariously perched shantytowns, home to hundreds of thousands of people, have largely been abandoned by the state and are ruled by heavily armed drug kingpins.

In recent years, buses have become an increasingly favored target for drug traffickers and other criminals seeking to flaunt their defiance of authorities.

With a combined fleet of about 7,500 vehicles, Rio's 48 private bus companies provide the primary means of transport for the vast majority of Cariocas. An estimated 1.4 million passengers, out of a total population of 6 million, ride the buses daily, according to Rio Onibus, an umbrella group representing most of the bus lines.

"We have 40,000 people who work on the city's buses, and they're all scared," said Lelis Marcos Teixeira, the president of the association. "What outrages us most is that this was a chronicle of a death foretold. Why? Because there have already been 78 [assaults] this year."

Teixeira blamed the state government, which is in charge of public safety, for failing to prioritize bus security as an urgent need. He said that bus company owners had asked officials to map out where and how attacks had occurred so that the firms could take action, but nothing had as yet been done.

The companies also have requested that, after any crackdown or raid on drug traffickers in the favelas, more police patrols be assigned to the area in the days that follow to prevent reprisal attacks on buses.

Survivors reported that the bus was flagged down by four teenage girls working in collusion with as many as a dozen young thugs who then mounted the assault. After the attackers set the bus ablaze, one passenger managed to pry open a back door, allowing terrified victims, some of them on fire, to escape. The thugs stood to one side, watching the bus burn and hurling rocks at the windows.

On Nov. 3, a woman was killed when suspected drug traffickers armed with assault rifles opened fire on the bus in which she was riding on the outskirts of the city. In February 2004, three police officers were killed when gunmen ambushed their bus.

The danger aboard Rio's buses came to worldwide attention two years ago with the release of the documentary "Bus 174." The film recounted the hijacking of a bus in 2000, a hostage drama that unfolded live on national television and ended in a botched police operation in which both the hijacker and one of his hostages died.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-busattack2dec02,1,3754292.story?coll=la-headlines-world

Link Posted: 12/12/2005 10:04:08 PM EDT

“We've traced guns back that had been involved in crimes that were obtained at gun shows,” said Seattle Police Chief Gil Kerlikowske

Don't confuse this guy with the real cops. He has his own agenda and his BS line of thinking does not represent the rank and file LEO's in WA.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 10:16:28 PM EDT
No shit!
Your best homie sets you up with a gat, you just tell the cops you got it at a gunshow.



I hate Seattle!
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 10:20:23 PM EDT
I can't stand the use of the word "police" in this context, as if ALL offficers are in agreement on gun control issues, "police believe" or "police are trying to" I know a fair amount of cops, not one of which supports more restrictions for law abiding citizens. And hearing the chief talk about accountability is such bullshit coming from a man who LOST his sidearm.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 10:33:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By R-32:

Originally Posted By CarbineMonoxide:
I believe the antis are starting an offensive this week.



Yet we never start any...



Don't forget when Tommy the Whale got whacked.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 10:36:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 10:47:51 PM EDT

On October 11th, 2001, Tom Wales, a federal prosecutor and the courageous tyrannical president of CeaseFire was shot to death in his home in what law enforcement officials called an "assassination."
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 11:02:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SARS:

Originally Posted By R-32:

Originally Posted By CarbineMonoxide:
I believe the antis are starting an offensive this week.



Yet we never start any...



Don't forget when Tommy the Whale got whacked.



Right or Wrong,that was Murder, no matter how you justify it...
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 11:04:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By R-32:

Originally Posted By SARS:

Originally Posted By R-32:

Originally Posted By CarbineMonoxide:
I believe the antis are starting an offensive this week.



Yet we never start any...



Don't forget when Tommy the Whale got whacked.



Right or Wrong,that was Murder, no matter how you justify it...



Self defence is not murder, it is justifiable homocide.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 11:14:40 PM EDT
Whether you consider right or wrong doesn't matter--it was a counteroffensive, provided that was the reason he was killed and it wasn't revenge by one of the people he acted against as a prosecutor. Ideally, Whaley would've faced trial for his crimes. As it is, I hope he is joined in Hell by the criminals his gun control efforts helped.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 12:24:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SARS:

Ideally, Whaley would've faced trial for his crimes. As it is, I hope he is joined in Hell by the criminals his gun control efforts helped.



Agree'd...
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 5:58:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By STRATIOTES:

Originally Posted By R-32:

Originally Posted By SARS:

Originally Posted By R-32:

Originally Posted By CarbineMonoxide:
I believe the antis are starting an offensive this week.



Yet we never start any...



Don't forget when Tommy the Whale got whacked.



Right or Wrong,that was Murder, no matter how you justify it...



Self defence is not murder, it is justifiable homocide.



Shooting someone through the window of their house while they are working at a computer is not self defense.



Originally Posted By SARS:
Whether you consider right or wrong doesn't matter--it was a counteroffensive, provided that was the reason he was killed and it wasn't revenge by one of the people he acted against as a prosecutor. Ideally, Whaley would've faced trial for his crimes. As it is, I hope he is joined in Hell by the criminals his gun control efforts helped.



What kind of BS is it to say "Whether you consider right or wrong doesn't matter--it was a counteroffensive"?
We gote enough grief from the antigun nuts initially crying that the progun people killed him without you dancing with glee in his blood.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 6:19:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Phil_in_Seattle:

Originally Posted By STRATIOTES:

Originally Posted By R-32:

Originally Posted By SARS:

Originally Posted By R-32:

Originally Posted By CarbineMonoxide:
I believe the antis are starting an offensive this week.



Yet we never start any...



Don't forget when Tommy the Whale got whacked.



Right or Wrong,that was Murder, no matter how you justify it...



Self defence is not murder, it is justifiable homocide.



Shooting someone through the window of their house while they are working at a computer is not self defense.



Originally Posted By SARS:
Whether you consider right or wrong doesn't matter--it was a counteroffensive, provided that was the reason he was killed and it wasn't revenge by one of the people he acted against as a prosecutor. Ideally, Whaley would've faced trial for his crimes. As it is, I hope he is joined in Hell by the criminals his gun control efforts helped.



What kind of BS is it to say "Whether you consider right or wrong doesn't matter--it was a counteroffensive"?
We gote enough grief from the antigun nuts initially crying that the progun people killed him without you dancing with glee in his blood.



I have to agree with SARS on this one. I'm glad the SOB is dead and I hope his soul is rotting in hell. Who knows for sure why Mr. Wales was popped. It could have been something totally unrelated to gun control but just the same I'm glad the SOB is dead and I hope the FUDS never find the shooter! Phil, I'm trying to flame you but I have to ask the rhetorical question: Where is your line in the sand? How much more incremental tyranny are you willing to endure before you take sides in the fight for what is left of our freedom? As for the right of self defense, I personally beleive that the demise of Tom Wales was justified self defense because that guy was out to kill all of us with his abuse of power and his personal agenda. If the government takes away your god given right to defend your self then you might as well be dead.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:55:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 8:16:50 AM EDT by Phil_in_Seattle]

Originally Posted By RedDawg6:
I have to agree with SARS on this one. I'm glad the SOB is dead and I hope his soul is rotting in hell. Who knows for sure why Mr. Wales was popped. It could have been something totally unrelated to gun control but just the same I'm glad the SOB is dead and I hope the FUDS never find the shooter! Phil, I'm trying to flame you but I have to ask the rhetorical question: Where is your line in the sand? How much more incremental tyranny are you willing to endure before you take sides in the fight for what is left of our freedom? As for the right of self defense, I personally beleive that the demise of Tom Wales was justified self defense because that guy was out to kill all of us with his abuse of power and his personal agenda. If the government takes away your god given right to defend your self then you might as well be dead.



If abuse of power and an unattractive personal agenda is reason enough for you to claim that killing someone in cold blood is self defense then buddy you must have an awfully long list of people who you think are trying to kill you.

Your questions were rhetorical, but I will address them anyway.

If you don't know that I have a side in this fight then you haven't been paying any attention at all. I just happen to believe that whacking people on the other side of the gun rights fight was not appropriate in 2001 when wales was murdered neither would it be appropriate as I write this today.

My line in the sand is my line in the sand, I'd think one would want to know when the first line is crossed, the line that through the words of some would seem to result in overt actions unless they are merely full of rhetoric, not the line you are implying is so much further back that you find it not to your liking.

The only assett that wales brought to his side of the table was his position as a prosecutor, as a debate opponent he was laughable as he'd often lapse into emotional outbursts and come off as a loon. He's been more worth to ceasefire since his murder as a fund raising tool and a martyr then he was when he was with them.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:36:07 AM EDT
Anti gunners who think any such law will keep guns out of a criminals hands are nuts.

Last time I checked it was illegal for the criminals & bad guys to have / do drugs and they seem to have no problem getting their hands on dope everywhere in town.

Banning / restricing firearms sales @ gun shows will do no more to curb a felons access to guns anymore than thinking the cure for obesity is to stop selling spoons.

Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:50:01 AM EDT
<<TWITCH>>
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:52:22 AM EDT
+1
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 10:00:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 10:10:03 AM EDT by SARS]
Phil, I suggest you read the thread. R-32 asserted that folks that oppose usurpations of our rights never counterattack, I pointed out a case where a counterattack was made. Your view or mine does not affect whether or not an event occurred.

Killing anyone that campaigns to enslave others is justified, though it may not always be prudent. Wales was effectively soliciting a hit-man to dictate that you must abide by his wishes or be killed. Was he effective at it? Not really, he did not get a hit-man to agree to kill us. He did attempt to, however, justifying the defensive use of force. It is very analogous to the justification for the war in Iraq (minus the shoddy intelligence work). Saddam reportedly threatened the US, attempted to get terrorists to attack, and stockpiled WMD. Whaley was a terrorist who campaigned to have people imprisoned or killed merely for exercising their natural right to self defense. Killing Wales is not murder any more than dropping bombs on caves in Afghanistan is.

There is certainly a compelling argument that Whaley had it coming. The key question is whether doing it was beneficial or not. Did it accomplish anything? It doesn't appear to have.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 10:37:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 10:49:12 AM EDT by R-32]

Originally Posted By SARS:

Phil, I suggest you read the thread. R-32 asserted that folks that oppose usurpations of our rights never counterattack, I pointed out a case where a counterattack was made. Your view or mine does not affect whether or not an event occurred.




This is what I said, In the context it was written.


Originally Posted By CarbineMonoxide:
I believe the antis are starting an offensive this week.




Originally Posted By R-32:
Yet we never start any...





I wonder why we never start our own offensive's?, Im tired of just being defensive.

Whaley did have it coming in my mind, but "justice" was not served in this case. It is still murder. I would much rather have seen him used as a example in the flesh, or at the end of a rope if need be.

Link Posted: 12/13/2005 11:02:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SARS:
Phil, I suggest you read the thread. R-32 asserted that folks that oppose usurpations of our rights never counterattack, I pointed out a case where a counterattack was made. Your view or mine does not affect whether or not an event occurred.

Killing anyone that campaigns to enslave others is justified, though it may not always be prudent. Wales was effectively soliciting a hit-man to dictate that you must abide by his wishes or be killed. Was he effective at it? Not really, he did not get a hit-man to agree to kill us. He did attempt to, however, justifying the defensive use of force. It is very analogous to the justification for the war in Iraq (minus the shoddy intelligence work). Saddam reportedly threatened the US, attempted to get terrorists to attack, and stockpiled WMD. Whaley was a terrorist who campaigned to have people imprisoned or killed merely for exercising their natural right to self defense. Killing Wales is not murder any more than dropping bombs on caves in Afghanistan is.

There is certainly a compelling argument that Whaley had it coming. The key question is whether doing it was beneficial or not. Did it accomplish anything? It doesn't appear to have.




No, there is not a compelling arguement that tom wales had a cold blooded murder coming to him.

Your holding his murder up as an example of a counter attack from the progun side is BS, and the mere fact that you would consider what should be treated as a henious act as a "counter attack in the name of freedom and liberty" should leave a bad taste in the mouths of moral people, plain and simple.

That and your guess that he was killed as a counter attack as opposed to any other reason is just that; a guess, no facts have been found to show what the motive may be.

Running around murdering our opponents is not the way things should be done, not in 2001 and not today. This is not the night of the long knives.

If anything it hurt the progun side as it provided a martyr to the antis.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 11:05:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By R-32:



Originally Posted By R-32:
Yet we never start any...





I wonder why we never start our own offensive's?, Im tired of just being defensive.



That you know about ! look for a after action report next tuesday.


If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed, if you will not fight when victory will be sure and not so costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no chance of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves. -- Winston Churchill

Link Posted: 12/13/2005 1:28:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Eric:

“We've traced guns back that had been involved in crimes that were obtained at gun shows,” said Seattle Police Chief Gil Kerlikowske

Don't confuse this guy with the real cops. He has his own agenda and his BS line of thinking does not represent the rank and file LEO's in WA.



Gil is a politician now. If he was any kind of real cop, he'd know that the gun he had stashed in his car was gonna be stolen eventually.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 1:41:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PCR-00:
<<TWITCH>>



MILITIA!!
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 1:41:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KA3B:

Originally Posted By PCR-00:
<<TWITCH>>



MILITIA!!



Link Posted: 12/13/2005 1:53:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By YOPD:

Originally Posted By Eric:

“We've traced guns back that had been involved in crimes that were obtained at gun shows,” said Seattle Police Chief Gil Kerlikowske

Don't confuse this guy with the real cops. He has his own agenda and his BS line of thinking does not represent the rank and file LEO's in WA.



Gil is a politician now. If he was any kind of real cop, he'd know that the gun he had stashed in his car was gonna be stolen eventually.



I don't know when Kerlikowski was last a real cop.

It would be nice of the rank and file LEOs were able to make their real views heard so that the public would see something other than Kerlikowski and his flunkies pushing his "guns are bad Mmmmmmkay?" panderings.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 3:45:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Phil_in_Seattle:

No, there is not a compelling arguement that tom wales had a cold blooded murder coming to him.

Your holding his murder up as an example of a counter attack from the progun side is BS, and the mere fact that you would consider what should be treated as a henious act as a "counter attack in the name of freedom and liberty" should leave a bad taste in the mouths of moral people, plain and simple.

That and your guess that he was killed as a counter attack as opposed to any other reason is just that; a guess, no facts have been found to show what the motive may be.

Running around murdering our opponents is not the way things should be done, not in 2001 and not today. This is not the night of the long knives.

If anything it hurt the progun side as it provided a martyr to the antis.



Who knows for sure whether he was killed by someone who was pisside off at him because of his anti-2A stance or if someone killed him because of some other abuse of power that he inflicted on someone as a federal prosecutor. He obviously pissed someone off. Personally all I have to say is good riddance!
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 5:24:46 PM EDT
I bet the antis would get a hard on for this post.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 5:32:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By shadows:
I bet the antis would get a hard on for this post.




Let them....
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 5:36:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 12:39:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By OdT:

Originally Posted By R-32:

Originally Posted By shadows:
I bet the antis would get a hard on for this post.




Let them....



Exactly. There's enough ammo for both sides to do whatever they want or need to. I say, get busy!



It is time then to agree on the strategic goal. as well as a primary secondary and tertiary.

Then the mission planning begins.


Before doing battle, in the temple one calculates and will win, because many calculations were made.

Before doing battle, in the temple one calculates and will not win, because few calculations were made.

Many calculations, victory, few calculations, no victory, then how much less so when no calculations?

By means of these, I can observe them, beholding victory or defeat!

Link Posted: 12/14/2005 10:11:43 PM EDT
I thought there is a background check at the gunshow? When I bought my lower at the WAC, I remember the guy calling in my NIC.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 10:24:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By A96HondaAccordEX:
I thought there is a background check at the gunshow? When I bought my lower at the WAC, I remember the guy calling in my NIC.



You have to be a member of WAC to trade arms there, and a member requires a background check, if new a NIC will be run as well at time of sale.

Link Posted: 12/15/2005 3:20:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By A96HondaAccordEX:
I thought there is a background check at the gunshow? When I bought my lower at the WAC, I remember the guy calling in my NIC.



They aren't complaining about the FFLs selling at shows, they're claiming to be complaining about "unlicensed dealers". Which we all know is acting as an "unlicensed dealer" is already illegal under existing federal law. Anytime you hear them spout off a number of vendors selling as "unlicensed dealers" at gunshows you know they are including people selling beef jerky, beanie babies, etc., in that number.

They are after person to person sales.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 4:18:31 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 6:20:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By OdT:
My thought is that diplomacy is the only credible tactic to make a real and lasting change. But I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed either...
What say you?



It's hard to reason with fanantics. These people are masters of manipulation and they have the liberal media on their side. If there is any rational debate they won't allow our message to be heard by the voting public. I think it's time to take the gloves off!
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:37:16 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 11:32:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Phil_in_Seattle:

Originally Posted By A96HondaAccordEX:
I thought there is a background check at the gunshow? When I bought my lower at the WAC, I remember the guy calling in my NIC.



They aren't complaining about the FFLs selling at shows, they're claiming to be complaining about "unlicensed dealers". Which we all know is acting as an "unlicensed dealer" is already illegal under existing federal law. Anytime you hear them spout off a number of vendors selling as "unlicensed dealers" at gunshows you know they are including people selling beef jerky, beanie babies, etc., in that number.

They are after person to person sales.



I posted this in annother thread....


I'm pretty sure you need a background check at the WAC show...pretty sure.....

Pretty damned sure..... washingtonarmscollectors.org/members.asp

Yup....pretty sure





Important Instructions:

Persons applying for regular, life or associate membership in WAC must provide their driver's license (or State ID card) number on the application form. You must include a photocopy of your ID document.

You must provide a copy of this application which is legible and signed.

You must have a background check performed or provide proof of clear background with your application. This is achieved via one of the following options:

Include photocopy of your current dealer license.

Include photocopy of current C&R license.

Include photocopy of current Law Enforcement ID

Include photocopy of current Military ID

Include photocopy of current CPL (Concealed Pistol License)

Include photocopy of state-issued firearm ownership ID (if applicable from applicant's state of residence)

Include an additional $12 background check processing fee.

NOTE: If you let your WAC membership expire and/or you are late in renewing your application, will need to resubmit one of the above options.

You must send a check or money order for the amount of your membership dues plus any additional fees (if applicable) with your application.

Send application, dues and supporting documentation to: WAC - PO BOX 389 Renton WA 98057-0389

Failure to comply with these instructions will only delay your membership application.





Pretty sure you need a membership to buy a firearm.....pretty sure....yup...I'm sure:

washingtonarmscollectors.org/shows.asp



Rules of the Road



1. There will be no loaded firearms, magazines, or speedloaders in the building, either on the tables or on one’s person, with the exception of law enforcement and private security officers under contract with WAC

2. There will be no bulk gunpowder or explosive bullets in the building. There will be no loose cartridges or loaded clips of any description near the firearms for which they are intended. Chemicals used to make explosive compounds are prohibited.

3. All firearms will have their actions tied open. Where that is impracticable due to design considerations the arm will have its action tied to make it inoperable. All detachable magazines, including rimfire tubular feeding devices, will be removed from a firearm before it is placed on a table. Flintlock, wheel lock and matchlock arms need not be tied. Percussion or cartridge firearms for display only contained in a locked display case may remain untied.

4. Fully automatic firearms other than those displayed by law enforcement or military organizations, or parts to convert semiautomatic arms to fully-automatic are prohibited. Dummy, replica, or registered Title II firearms must be accompanied by a clearly-readable sign stating that the item in question is not a machine gun.

5. Any extended bayonets attached to firearms shall be scabbarded with no exceptions. If a bayonet on a firearm has no scabbard, it shall either be folded against the stock or removed from the firearm. This applies to arms being carried as well as to arms that are on tables.

6. Firearm sales to — or purchases from — non-members or persons prohibited by law from firearms ownership/possession are totally forbidden. Violation will lead to immediate and permanent expulsion as a member of WAC.

7. Members may not loan their badges to anyone, whether a member or not. Membership badges will be worn above the waist with the name clearly visible. The alteration of WAC membership badges in any manner is strictly prohibited; the display at WAC gatherings of altered WAC badges or of badges purporting to be insignia of current WAC membership other than those issued by the WAC shall be cause for immediate expulsion from the gathering and may subject the bearer, if a member, to further discipline by the WAC Board of Directors.

8. There shall be no promotion of, or soliciting for, commercial gun shows on WAC leased premises, including the parking lot. Any other solicitations, display or distribution of non-arms related material at WAC shows must have prior approval of the WAC Board of Directors, except for such club-related petitions as allowed in club By-laws.

9. There will be no parking on the Puyallup Fairgrounds except for those individuals with approved parking permits. All others will be towed at owner’s expense.

10. Puyallup Fire Dept. dictates NO SMOKING on the premises.

11. Taking of photographs, video or audio taping is prohibited without permission from either the Board of Directors or the Show Manager.

12. The sale of literature on the manufacture of unlawful explosive devices, silencers, full automatic firearms, booby-traps, and/or illegal terrorist tactics, etc. is prohibited. All anti-Semitic, racist and hate literature is prohibited. The sale of targets depicting the likeness of American Politicians is prohibited. If any of the above or other related material not listed shows up at a WAC gathering, the owner of that material shall be asked to remove it immediately.

13. In the event of disciplinary action taken against a member or members which leads to the revocation, cancellation, or suspension of membership in the Washington Arms Collectors, all monetary balances and credits with the Club shall be forfeited to the Washington Arms Collectors.

14. No person under 18 years of age will be admitted to WAC shows unless accompanied by an adult, parent or guardian or unless such person is a member of a group authorized by the Board or Show Manager such as Scouts, Civil Air Patrol Cadets, etc.

15. Any member who becomes disqualified from membership must immediately report the disqualification and the circumstances thereof to any Director, Officer or the WAC Office and must surrender his or her badge to the WAC.

16. Any member who learns that another member has become disqualified from membership must report the circumstances to any Director, Officer or the WAC Office. Failure to report such knowledge may be cause for disciplinary action.

17. Any member who is required to conduct a NICS background check on a sale of a firearm to a member at a gathering of members and who receives a denial, must IMMEDIATELY report said denial and the identity of the prospective purchaser to the Show Manager or his designee. Failure to report such information may be cause for disciplinary action.

18. Any member whose attempted purchase of a firearm at a gathering of members is denied by NICS is immediately suspended and must surrender his or her badge forthwith. The suspension of such member shall terminate upon reversal of the NICS denial.

19. Failure to appear before the WAC Board of Directors upon issuance of a written notification signed by the President or his designee may be cause for disciplinary action. Members may be disciplined by the BoD for misconduct or persistent trouble making. The Show Manager or a majority of the Board present may expel a member or guest from a gathering for these same reasons. The Show manager or a majority of the Board present may, at their discretion, refuse the entry or continued presence of a guest at a gathering.

20. Additional rule and related policies apply to all members and table holders. Copies may be obtained from the Show Manager.


Link Posted: 12/15/2005 11:41:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PCR-00:
<snip>



I really don't think we should base our argument against new state legislation on two gun shows out of the whole state.

We need a "new" angle, such as FREEDOM.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 11:44:57 AM EDT
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