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Posted: 2/10/2006 3:33:38 AM EDT
Pardon me if this has been discussed already; I just became aware of the info.
www.atf.gov/firearms/openletters.htm
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www.atf.gov/firearms/122905pennaffl-openletter.pdf letter dated 12/29/05
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In a Nutshell: If a Pennsylvania resident wishes to sell a "Firearm"
( a handgun is defined as a firearm in PA for this purpose) to another PA resident ,
(ie - a private sale) the FFL must take the firearm into Inventory and prepare
a form 4473 for disposition of the firearm.
Only Thencan the FFL conduct a NICS/PICS check.

In addition , since the FFL now has taken possesion of the firearm , they may not transfer
it (handgun) to anyone under 21 years of age(per the GCA)

No more Nics checks for a Fee.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 6:11:26 AM EDT
Sounds like they are trying to clarify what the FFL's should have been doing all along.
I worked for 2 shops in Maryland for 6+ years and both would log PRIVATE SALE guns in and out as if they bought sold it.

As for not selling it to someone under 21 has been the law since the 60's.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:08:40 AM EDT
I for one am not opposed to this.

Gary
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 3:55:01 PM EDT
Seems to me that the ATF is lately more strictly enforcing their rules closer to as they have been written. Closing many loopholes. This and the ban on importing part kits come to mind.

I just wish they got rid of the stupider rules such as 922 compliance. Build a AK47 now and its driving me crazy
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 4:08:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 4:27:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/10/2006 4:29:36 PM EDT by AKsRule]
Thank you Hipwr223 , you explained it better than I did.

There is NOW no private Transfer of a pistol between PA residents.
They will ALL be logged in and the info available to the FEDS.

If an FFL performs the NICS check and DOES NOT take possession of the firearm , HE has Broken Federal Law.

In regard to the 21 year old part , PA law states that possession of a Firearm(handgun) by a PA resident over 18 is legal.

If you buy a handgun through an FFL as a GIFT for your 18year old son , and the NICS/PICS
and 4473 he does ONLY reflects your information THIS might also be seen by the ATF
as a violation!
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 8:10:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/10/2006 8:13:27 PM EDT by ForGreatJustice]

Originally Posted By 9supercomp:
Sounds like they are trying to clarify what the FFL's should have been doing all along.
I worked for 2 shops in Maryland for 6+ years and both would log PRIVATE SALE guns in and out as if they bought sold it.

As for not selling it to someone under 21 has been the law since the 60's.



You mean that's been PA law since the 60s? Because that's certainly not Federal law.

Essentially, between the ATF and the Commmonwealth of PA, they have effectively banned handgun ownership for those between 18-21. Not surprising, since where rights are concerned, those between 18-21 are treated as 2nd class citizens in this country, unconstitutionally denied many rights under color of law. One (admittedly oversimplistic) explanation is that they simply lowered the voting age to 18 so that they could justify to the public the forced conscription of 18 year olds for military service. The fed and state govt's, as well as much of the general public, have never intended to give full citizenship to those between 18 and 21.

ACtually...there is ONE option left for you disenfranchised brothers and sisters: The 80% build. Get those frames and get cracking!
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 4:27:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AKsRule:
If you buy a handgun through an FFL as a GIFT for your 18year old son , and the NICS/PICS
and 4473 he does ONLY reflects your information THIS might also be seen by the ATF
as a violation!



PA law still allows for the transfer of a "firearm" from a parent to a child or between spouses without going through a dealer, PICS check, etc.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 6:43:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rocko:

Originally Posted By AKsRule:
If you buy a handgun through an FFL as a GIFT for your 18year old son , and the NICS/PICS
and 4473 he does ONLY reflects your information THIS might also be seen by the ATF
as a violation!



PA law still allows for the transfer of a "firearm" from a parent to a child or between spouses without going through a dealer, PICS check, etc.




You are correct.

But my POINT was , if you buy a NEW Pistol FROM A DEALER as a gift to an 18yr old THE DEALER may now be seen as violating the FED LAW.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 12:04:44 PM EDT
Aksrule,

Isn't it against federal law to buy a gun for anyone other then yourself.

SO, If I buy a gun in my name, and then later, say 5 seconds, 5 days or 5 years decide to give it as a gift to my son, the FFl is all clear.

Now if I tell the FFL that the gun is for my son, and I fill out the 4473 in my name, that would be a straw purchase from the start.

Am I understanding this right?
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 2:46:15 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 10:46:10 AM EDT
I've recieved 5 handguns as "gifts" from my father since i turned 18. I turn 21 next week.

I have overwhelming evidence supporting that gifting a handgun to an 18yo is perfectly legal including letters from the attorney general.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 1:15:17 PM EDT
So, just to make clear: If I gift a pistol to my wife, I do not need to do anything - no PICS check, etc. I can just hand the gun over to her without telling anyone, correct?
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 2:32:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 2:35:54 PM EDT
I am 19. Does this mean my father can "gift" me the pistol and it will be mine legally? Does the gifiting process require any paperwork?
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 9:30:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2006 9:59:06 PM EDT by clubsoda22]

Originally Posted By walrus:
I am 19. Does this mean my father can "gift" me the pistol and it will be mine legally? Does the gifiting process require any paperwork?



yes he can as long as you're not a criminal. and no paperwork.

Same thing goes for your wife trakker

Here's a scan of the letter from the attorney general's office

Letter
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 12:05:34 PM EDT
Doesn't state law supercede the federal law? Here in NJ there are many state laws that supercede fed law.
C&L, Class 3, CCW, etc.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 12:32:07 PM EDT
state law can be more restrictive than federal law, but not less. Basically, both apply.

However, there are no federal regulations that prohibit what was outlined in the AG's letter posted above.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 11:00:11 AM EDT
Thanks for the post. I'm sure the gang bangers will stop and think before they buy that next hot pistol
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