Posted: 5/11/2005 11:31:59 AM EDT
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Does anyone know if you can keep a loaded longgun in your trunk if you have a CWP? Can't seem to find it in the law. If you do know, the section of the law would be appreciated. Nevermind, found it: ยง 6106. Firearms not to be carried without a license. ยง 6106.1 Carrying loaded weapons other than firearms. A loaded longgun in the trunk is fine. |
| I'm not an attorney but I *think* your interpretation of the statute is incorrect. The CCW permit refers to firearms but in the context of concealed carry a firearm is a *handgun* and ONLY a handgun. A loaded long gun in the trunk of your car is NOT covered by your CCW permit. |
Okay, you guys are right. I needed to look in title 34 (game and wildlife). It's not part of the uniform firearms act, but rather a matter of game control. Guess the laws about hunting from a moving vehicle weren't enough. Anyway here was my line of thought.
It does not say handgun, it says firearm
Here is the definition of firearm. Basically it covers all pistols and NFA weapons. In this regard you are correct. Under PA law a non-NFA shotgun or rifle is not considered a firearm
When it says licence it means a PA state licence as outlined in ยง 6109 So what about firearms which the state of PA does not consider firearms (non-NFA longguns)? This is covered here:
Okay, now i see it, it only allows weapons other than firearms in the case of people excempted in these clauses.
In that case you probably can carry an NFA shotgun in your trunk, but it's not really worth the hassle. In all seriousness however, I looked it up in title 34 chapter 25 and carrying a loaded longgun in the trunk is a summary offense of the fourth degree. A fine of $100-$300. Not a huge deal if you get caught. I'll get back if i find a loophole (other than a deer control permit, which is difficult to get). Anyway, i wouldn't call it a big no-no. It's about as big of a no-no as 10 over the speed limit. Should a loophole not be found, a pair of shotgun speedloaders should do just fine since there's nothing prohibiting an unloaded longgun. |
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My understanding was that you can keep a longgun in your trunk as long as it is unloaded (i.e. ammo stored somewhere else like in passenger compartment while firearm stays in "locked container" trunk). I have driven around with a rifle in my trunk but with the ammo stored separately. I don't often do it because I can CCW a pistol without any issue in the state. Maybe some of the legal gurus can give an official ruling. |
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I don't see the words "locked container" or "ammo stored seperately" in the law. Simply that it must be unloaded. 6106 provides that firearms must be in a "secure wrapper" unless you have a permit, but as i covered before, a longgun (non-NFA) is not classified as a firearm. There is also no definition as to what a "secure wrapper" is. I'd have to search caselaw, if there is any. But I would condiser my trunk a "secure wrapper" as it is locked and someone without a key can not access it. Title 34 provides only that it be unloaded.
There is no definition of what constitutes "unloaded," but a reasonable person would believe that this constitutes the ammunition being seperate from the gun. I don't think it's a measure of distance. |
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CLubsoda, I see a little Bill CLinton here, It depneds on what the definition of "is" is.   I really do not think you want to get involved with the legal technicalities of a loaded / uncased firearm in your truck. just get yourself a carry permit and pack a 45.  Besides, by the time you get out of the car and into the trunk, you could have already unloaded / reloaded the 45 several times. |
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Ancidotal evidence: 1.5 yrs ago I had a car stolen from my driveway. It was out of gas (as happens when women drive cars last) and died 1/2 mile away. The police search the car and find a shotgun with the side saddle carrier loaded, stock folded, and 18.25 in. barrel in place. The boro PD confiscates my car then gives me a load of crap for "several guns in your vehicle" (my range bag contained a dozen assorted magazines - which the boro cop counted as firearms). Because I live outside the boro the Township PD took jurisdiction. They ran the gun to make sure it wasn't reported stolen, dusted my car for prints, and the Det. Sgt. said the following to me (paraphrase): 1. You're lucky it was kids joyriding that abandoned the car rather then search it. 2. I spoke to officer X at the boro, he wanted to press reckless endangerment charges against you. I told him not to and that you are licensed to carry and the gun was not in plane sight. 3. It's a good thing you had the folding stock on the gun or it would have been too short to be legal. I don't believe he was correct in his interperatation of PA gun laws. However, my interperatation has always been that a gun in your car is being carried. The license allows you to carry any firearm you want so long as it is concealed. |
Don't listen to cops when it comes to gun laws. Most of them are woefully inept. As far as reckless endangerment goes, it can be argued that it was not you who "recklessly engaged in conduct which placed or may place another person in danger of death or serious bodily injury." but rather the kids who stole your car. Leaving the shotgun in a playground would have been reckless endangerment on your behalf, but a reasonable person would believe that the trunk of their car is relatively inaccessable. Personally, i'd spend $70 for a locking rack mounted in the trunk. They can be purchaced from galls. It the same device LE agencies use to secure long guns in their cars. If they want to claim that your weapon was not secure, then it's pretty much an admission that their's aren't, which opens them up to future liability. Your interpretation is also somewhat incorrect. A firearm under state law is a handgun or NFA longgun. A shotgun with an 18.5" barrel is a weapon other than a firearm. It's regulated by title 34 (game and wildlife). To me, your gun was unloaded and therefore not an issue, but say some judge decides that a side saddle means the gun is loaded, at worst they could have fined you $300 and nothing would appear on your record. |
Finally turned 21? |
What does that mean? You can carry open in PA with or without a license. Firearms do not have to be concealed. I was just correcting you. |
You are incorrect, open carry is legal everywher but philadelphia without a permit and including philadelphia with a permit. Police harassment is another issue, but you're not breaking any laws. I have the law, the caselaw and the opinion of the current attorney general to back that up. |
clubsoda22 has it right, anyone who is not a criminal may carry openly without a permit but they may not carry concealed. Open carry with a permit is legal in Philly just not smart. For some reason a lot of people think it is illegal to carry open in Philly. If you notice the carry permits are not called concealed carry permits, they are a license to carry firearms. |
Pardon. I was asking Clubsoda if he finally turned 21 and got his carry permit. |
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I would love to see some of the case law on open carry here in PA if you guys have the info bookmarked or saved somewhere... I have been stopped by a Game Warden because I was carying a revolver without a hunting license. I was actually target shooting on a neighbors farm (with permision) and the warden threatened me with game law violations... Ended up I got out of it because I had my CCW permit but the revolver was in the open in standard belt mounted holster... Now, I guess I will be honest that I am also lucky I didn't see a groundhog or he might well have had a reason to give me the ticket! Game wardens sure can be like a hornet at times! |
Negative, still 20. |