Can't have 'trophy hunting' cuz feelz and such.

They need to gather 150,642 signatures by July to get it on the ballot. As an Arizona hunter, I will make my stance known, and I hope you will do the same. Anyone familiar with California's mountain lion population due to the hunting ban should share the facts. The fact of the matter is, these Californians move here and vote like they did in California. We're in for a tough fight on many fronts.

Story Link



PHOENIX – Saying there’s no reason for “trophy hunting’’ of mountain lions, the Humane Society of the United States is moving to get Arizona voters to outlaw the practice.

The proposal for the 2018 ballot would make it illegal to pursue, shoot, snare, net or capture any “wild cat.’’ That specifically means bobcats and mountain lions.

As crafted, the ban also technically would apply to jaguars, lynx and ocelot. But those already are protected as endangered species.

“People no longer really tolerate trophy hunting,’’ said Kellye Pinkleton, the organization’s state director. “People are not shooting them, hounding them, trapping them for subsistence.’’

But Kurt Davis, a member of the state Game and Fish Commission, said the number of mountain lions killed each year – about 360 in 2015, the most recent numbers available – simply keeps the population in check and ensures that other species that are prey like bighorn sheep and pronghorn antelope are not decimated.

And Davis said he sees something more sinister in the measure: part of an effort to ban hunting entirely.

“We do not have any blanket opposition to hunting,’’ Pinkleton responded.

Backers of the ban on hunting big cats have until next July to gather 150,642 valid signatures on petitions to get the issue on the ballot.

The group and its local affiliate have a track record of sorts. In 1994 they succeeded in getting voters to approve a ban on the use of leg hold traps on public lands by a margin of close to 3-2.

Pinkleton noted that initiative laws have since been tightened by the Republican-controlled Legislature, with a ban on paying circulators on a per-signature basis and a requirement that all petition papers be in “strict compliance’’ with all election laws.

If it gets that far, it could be difficult to defeat. Davis said Arizona has a higher percentage of urban residents than any other “inland’’ state, meaning people less likely to go hunting.

What that means is the Game and Fish Commission and hunters will need to make their case that the practice should not be outlawed.

Game and Fish conservation shouldn't be on a fucking ballot. That's the same with we ended up with the fucking minimum wage hike, because people are feel-good idiots.

Fuck that, there's good money in trapping Bobcats.

Some candyass group tries it every few years.

Won't happen. Too much money against it.

Always something with these people.. Good info to have, ill pass it around.

I'll share the info.

I think predator hunting is pretty dumb, but fuck those folks.

This.

I'm interested to hear why you think predator hunting is dumb.

There are reasons to hunt predators, but for 99 out of 100 people that do, they seemingly have no reason, and are just doing it for sport. To each their own, I just have a respect for predators, personally. Their numbers are dwindling across the board, a lot more can be said about them than dumbass grazers, they help manage diseased animal populations, and they aren't good for eating.

It just doesn't make much sense to me with the exception of a few scenarios. In most areas, the few predators still left are helping the ecosystem, and not the other way around. People kill off all these coyotes, and then wonder why the rabbit population is a nightmare. It makes little sense to me unless you're a rancher or something. There are obviously some exceptions to this, but generally, that's the case. Plenty of areas have seen changes for the better after predator numbers went up in the region. It's often the opposite when their populations go down.

If they were good eating, I'd feel differently. Varmints and grazers are out there digging holes on your property, eating up your vegetation and what not, all while the predators are on your side in the grand scheme of things.

Mind you, I'm pro hunting, and have blasted many varmints, grazers, and birds over the years. I've just had a form of respect for predators the same way my father always has. Defense or protection of my property/livestock are about the only reasons I'd personally have for taking predators.

I'll also emphasize to each their own. It's not like I dislike or look down upon predator hunters, generally speaking. It's your right within the confines of local hunting regulations. Just pointing out why I personally don't do it.

A nice Bobcat pelt can bring anywhere from $150 to $350 for a Western per pelt (trapped not shot).

Not really dumb if it gets me an extra $3500 or so spending money per year.

ETA...
Western Yotes are bringing $57 per pelt right now, again trapped not shot.


NAFA fur prices

Because there are too many damn bighorns....

Pelt prices aside, predators keep the real nuisance critters in check. Rabbits and rodents both do a shit ton more damage to agriculture and pose a greater risk to human health (cases are admittedly rare, but plague, lepto, etc...) than coyotes. Coyotes can kill a lot more pests than we can, all while having very little detrimental effect on the rest of the environment as a whole vis à vis poison or trapping. They don't bother me and kill the critters I don't care for, so I let them go about their business.

Coyotes are probably one of the most resilient critters on the planet.  They aren't going anywhere because of hunting pressure.

Predator hunting helps keep the populations in check and control diseases within the population.  

It also helps alleviate pressure on economically important species such as deer that are a lot more susceptible to things like habitat loss than the humble coyote.

Waxing and waning of predator and prey populations is normal and cyclical.

As someone who enjoys nature, I have all the respect in the world for coyotes (and other predators).  

I'm still going to hunt them though because they are worthy adversaries and because I believe doing so is beneficial to deer populations without being particularly detrimental to the predator population.

BTW, mountain lion is quite tasty.  I have yet to eat bob cat but I have heard the same about it.  Coyotes and foxes on the other hand, not so much.

Numbers dwindling??? Dude, numbers have never been higher for predators in this state. They are everywhere. You need to educate yourself or better yet spend sometime outdoors actually seeing what is out there. Predator hunting is a means to conserving and managing wildlife numbers no different then any other animal. Nothing personal but I hope you don't use this kind of logic when confronting people on gun rights.

Yes, generally speaking, predator populations are dwindling across the board - nationally.

In our own state, coyotes in particular are the only predator that's seeing healthy populations. That said, the only game they are negatively affecting out here has been pronghorns. And, they are being dealt with accordingly in those areas where they're impacting pronghorns.

In many other areas, coyotes are also being eradicated. And it's led to an over abundance of critters destroying land and property.

So, there's clearly a place for it in some areas, but not all over.

Beyond that, this thread was about wild cats - not coyotes. Frankly, I'm well aware that coyotes are the biggest predator "problem" out here, in general. That said, I understand dealing with coyotes in particular areas.

And, I need to spend some time outdoors and educate myself? You clearly don't know just how much time I've spent and continue to spend outdoors in this state. It's been my favorite pastime, hobby, etc, for my entire native life out here. So, it's quite clear you don't know much about me. Assumptions aren't often the best way to jump into a conversation.

You are so wrong its unreal. Numbers are way up and that includes cats. Not sure what liberal shit your drinking but people like you are were so much misinformation comes from. Again, get off your couch and actually spend time in the outdoors cause its clear you haven't. I have never heard such aload of bullshit in my life except from liberals with an agenda. This has to be a troll thread, no one can be that stupid.

Get off your fucking couch. There's clearly only one troll here. Go get offended somewhere else. I have no interest in trying to fix stupid. See ya, cupcake.

Let see some numbers, then.

IMHO , as long as cats are hunted legally there is no down side.

And no one has even slightly argued against the legal taking of cats. We all understand how wildlife conservation works.

In my area I've seen a decline in predators for the past 2 years, from cats to yotes it's been down.

This year is looking promising though, I've noticed a sharp increase of predatory food, from rabbits to field mice it seems to be ripe for a great re-population of some of our larger predators.

Yotes are already on the rise, and I anticipate a good culling of bobcats and even larger felines.

Sort of strange considering the rains were not that great and it usually precedes a rise in food sources for the predators.

Heck, even our snake population has been way down.

Cats on the rise, not decline in North America.

Mt Lions in Arizona

Another thriving cat in the US, numbers not dropping across the board either

Bobcats

Your bobcat article is primarily consisting of data from the pre 2000's. While it does also touch upon some estimates made in 2010, it's hardly a hard indicator for what's really going on today.

And, the mountain lion article, who knows what time period it's relevant to - as they don't cite any dates for reference to anything. That said, I do know we now in fact are supposed to have a healthy mountain lion population here in AZ. It's contributed primarily to how abundant and healthy our deer populations have continued to be. And, I'm all for healthy wildlife conservation, so, well played on our state for that.

Had you approached this subject with even the slightest bit of respect from the get go, we could have simply had an objective conversation along these lines from the very beginning. You instantly just jumped in hurling insults like this was the dumbest thing you've ever heard, it's the biggest load of bullshit ever, you never leave your couch, etc, etc, etc. As if simply just the notion that one could want larger predator populations is the pinnacle of stupidity and ignorance. In a country where millions upon millions believe that our national anthem and flag itself are symbols of racism, the earth is flat, disarming the people will keep citizens safer, etc, etc, etc...the idea that predator populations are hurting in some areas is what you find to be the dumbest thing you've ever heard. Well, if you do "leave your couch" often, do you also ever have casual conversations with other human beings? Maybe a refresher course in communication would be nice for you. You trashed liberals, all while acting exactly like them. "This guy doesn't see things on this subject exactly the way I do! He's literally the dumbest person ever, and clearly Hitler!"

As some others have already said in here, and many others have also been saying in this state as well, for a lot of us, we're personally seeing a good bit fewer predators here over the past several years. Areas where I used to run into coyotes and bobcats on the regular, I hardly to no longer see them. I've only run into a handful of mountain lions over the past 30 years, so I don't really have much of a base to go off of there. I spend at least a third of the year exploring different parts of remote, rural AZ, where all forms of wildlife have long inhabited. Grazers continue to be as abundant as ever to me, but predators, not even close to what I used to regularly see. I'd think with the continued abundance of grazers all over that it'd be the opposite. But, that has been far from the case for a while now, for me.

I've just simply been giving my piece as to why I don't personally hunt predators. I have no qualms whatsoever with those that legally do. I started hunting at a young age myself, enjoy it, and know how crucial it also is to conservation. I'm not trying to go on some stupid hippie don't kill animals parade. Everyone has a right to hunt whatever they desire in my book.

I see coyotes regularly while deer hunting and even bob cats.  I even had a bob cat run off a buck I was trying to hunt last year.  Foxes are a dime a dozen where I spend most of my time hunting.  I still haven't gotten a cat to come into my predator call when I'm trying to actually hunt predators though.  Go figure.

I have yet to spot a mountain lion in the wild but my buddy killed one a few years back while deer hunting and he has killed several others in his back yard.  One of these days I'll glass one up and put him in the freezer.

Deer populations in most units are down in the state and have been for years. Look at the annual harvest and tag numbers put out over the last 20 years or so. But I'm wasting my time as you've already drawn your illogical conclusion as to what you believe. Again, you come with zero facts but spread bad information and think people won't get upset over something important that effects many things in this state. It's not about what you or anyone else thinks of predator hunters but actual game management.  Most people who hunt never saw the boom of the late 70s and 80s of what deer populations could be only to see huge declines after trapping on public land was banned in the early 90s. Another bit of liberal legislation based on emotion and feel good just like this mt lion and bobcat hunting ban bullshit. People come on here and think because they don't see a few animals in a particular spot, that numbers are down. Animals aren't stupid, they'll move or go nocturnal when human pressure rises. Again, educate yourselves on how animals work and what game and fish sees all yearlong and you'd realize what's actually going on.

Well, plenty seem to attribute the rising population of mountain lions in this state to the abundant/rising deer population.

Here's an article from 2015 quoting game and fish on the subject:

Click

"The Arizona Game & Fish Department lists the mountain lion as open for hunting year-round in Arizona. While it was once restricted to all but the summer months, hunting mountain lions has recently been extended to all year because of rising numbers, which is largely dependent on the increasing population of deer, the mountain lion’s main source of food. While mountain lions are capable of reproducing year-round, kittens are typically born at higher rates in the summer months. Hunters may only take one mountain lion per year, and any hunter who does take one must present it to the Arizona Game & Fish Department for inspection following the hunt."

But, you seemingly know better than everyone else on this topic. I guess everyone needs to get off their couches.

Mule deer populations are declining, white tail populations are climbing. A good source for wild cat management can be found on azgfd.com. Look into predator prey relationships and check out the graphs. Mtn lions dont typically follow that trend because intermediate prey species such as javelina, cattle, and deer pending on the location. SW AZ they feast on burros a lot. I think those cats should be given awards! Just some food for thought.