Posted: 11/14/2015 3:12:55 PM EDT
| I see that it passed but have not seen the actual verbage. When does it take affect and does it affect all cities statewide? |
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I am pretty libertarian, but I don't have much of an issue with stop light cameras. Unlike going 11mph over the speed limit, running red lights is a very dangerous thing. Plus its a black and white thing, you either ran it or you didn't. Speeding is shades of gray with maintaining proper traffic and ensuring limits are properly set for the roadway. Running red lights? Well no two objects can occupy the same place at one time.
However, the govt. determined to raise revenues seems to have attached radar guns to all the stop light cameras to drive revenue, that is why people hate the things so much. Here in Ahwatukee, we have an intersection with tons of wrecks and people running the light. Chandler and 48th. However where did they just install these cameras? Intersection right before you cross or enter I10 on Ray road, why people finally have a clear shot towards the freeway so they accelerate and trigger the speed camera. I have never seen any one of note run the red light at that intersection, just pure money grab. |
| I am with you on speed vs red light cams. 59th avenue is horrible for redlight runners. Especially at sweetwater. I have had more than a few close calls in the past crossing 59th ave on sweetwater. It is to the point that I wont enter that intersection until the traffic on 59th has stopped. But just 2 months ago I almost got tboned there after I was halfway across! |
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No cameras period. They are nothing but a revenue generator. IF they really wanted to stop red light running and speeding (for the most part) they'd put a traffic cop there. You know, like the old days. This way, people who get "trapped" in the intersection due to traffic stopping in front of them, won't have to deal with a ticket that couldn't be avoided.
This happened to me in Mesa. Got behind a box truck that jammed on the brakes when he was almost through the intersection leaving my ass "hanging in the breeze". If there had been a real officer there I'm sure no ticket would have been issued. |
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Here in Ahwatukee, we have an intersection with tons of wrecks and people running the light. Chandler and 48th. However where did they just install these cameras? Intersection right before you cross or enter I10 on Ray road, why people finally have a clear shot towards the freeway so they accelerate and trigger the speed camera. , just pure money grab. Of course it's a pure money grab. It's not actually HARD to design a safe intersection: 1- The yellow light needs to be at least 1 second long per 5mph of actual traffic speed. 2- The "dead time" (time when it's red all 4 ways) needs to be at least 3-4 seconds long. (basically long enough to clear an intersection if someone misjudges the yellow) Instead of doing that. They set the yellows short, and then set the "intersection bar" 20-30 foot past the crosswalk to maximize revenue. |
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Quoted: No cameras period. They are nothing but a revenue generator. IF they really wanted to stop red light running and speeding (for the most part) they'd put a traffic cop there. You know, like the old days. This way, people who get "trapped" in the intersection due to traffic stopping in front of them, won't have to deal with a ticket that couldn't be avoided. This happened to me in Mesa. Got behind a box truck that jammed on the brakes when he was almost through the intersection leaving my ass "hanging in the breeze". If there had been a real officer there I'm sure no ticket would have been issued. You know how many more cops you are going to have to hire to pay for that? And you will probably be bitching about that in the next thread... And that is not how the cameras work. And they have video, so your little story doesn't hold water. |
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I know two people (no, I'm not one of them) that got tickets for making right turns during a green left arrow, even though there was no danger. I've never been hit by a red light or speed camera. I still think they are bull shit and all about revenue. still have to come to a complete stop for the red before proceeding irregardless of someone else's green light or apparent lack of 'danger' |
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still have to come to a complete stop for the red before proceeding irregardless of someone else's green light or apparent lack of 'danger' Quoted:
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I know two people (no, I'm not one of them) that got tickets for making right turns during a green left arrow, even though there was no danger. I've never been hit by a red light or speed camera. I still think they are bull shit and all about revenue. still have to come to a complete stop for the red before proceeding irregardless of someone else's green light or apparent lack of 'danger' According to the ticket, that wasn't the issue. The issue was a car in the left turn lane (still well back from the intersection, plenty of time to make a right turn). |
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According to the ticket, that wasn't the issue. The issue was a car in the left turn lane (still well back from the intersection, plenty of time to make a right turn). Quoted:
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I know two people (no, I'm not one of them) that got tickets for making right turns during a green left arrow, even though there was no danger. I've never been hit by a red light or speed camera. I still think they are bull shit and all about revenue. still have to come to a complete stop for the red before proceeding irregardless of someone else's green light or apparent lack of 'danger' According to the ticket, that wasn't the issue. The issue was a car in the left turn lane (still well back from the intersection, plenty of time to make a right turn). I've no idea what that ticket would even be... so it was not for running a red light? What was it for exactly? |
| As I recall, it was for making a right turn on a green left arrow while there was a car in the left turn lane. That's not the verbatim legalese of it, but that was the gist. I saw the ticket and the pictures from the cameras. There was nothing dangerous about the turn. Like I said, these cameras aren't about keeping people safe, they're about revenue. |
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As I recall, it was for making a right turn on a green left arrow while there was a car in the left turn lane. That's not the verbatim legalese of it, but that was the gist. I saw the ticket and the pictures from the cameras. There was nothing dangerous about the turn. Like I said, these cameras aren't about keeping people safe, they're about revenue. interesting, hopefully an Az LEO versed in MV law will tell us what that traffic law is....sounds like something I break often... 
perhaps it was failure to yield? |
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Of course it's a pure money grab. It's not actually HARD to design a safe intersection: 1- The yellow light needs to be at least 1 second long per 5mph of actual traffic speed. 2- The "dead time" (time when it's red all 4 ways) needs to be at least 3-4 seconds long. (basically long enough to clear an intersection if someone misjudges the yellow) Instead of doing that. They set the yellows short, and then set the "intersection bar" 20-30 foot past the crosswalk to maximize revenue. Quoted:
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Here in Ahwatukee, we have an intersection with tons of wrecks and people running the light. Chandler and 48th. However where did they just install these cameras? Intersection right before you cross or enter I10 on Ray road, why people finally have a clear shot towards the freeway so they accelerate and trigger the speed camera. , just pure money grab. Of course it's a pure money grab. It's not actually HARD to design a safe intersection: 1- The yellow light needs to be at least 1 second long per 5mph of actual traffic speed. 2- The "dead time" (time when it's red all 4 ways) needs to be at least 3-4 seconds long. (basically long enough to clear an intersection if someone misjudges the yellow) Instead of doing that. They set the yellows short, and then set the "intersection bar" 20-30 foot past the crosswalk to maximize revenue. As a person who designs intersections and traffic signals for a living, I can assure you that none of the above is correct with respect to the yellow and red times. And the "intersection bar" you speak of is marked at the start of the intersection, which is defined in ARS. It's not just randomly placed. |
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As a person who designs intersections and traffic signals for a living, I can assure you that none of the above is correct with respect to the yellow and red times. And the "intersection bar" you speak of is marked at the start of the intersection, which is defined in ARS. It's not just randomly placed. Quoted:
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Here in Ahwatukee, we have an intersection with tons of wrecks and people running the light. Chandler and 48th. However where did they just install these cameras? Intersection right before you cross or enter I10 on Ray road, why people finally have a clear shot towards the freeway so they accelerate and trigger the speed camera. , just pure money grab. Of course it's a pure money grab. It's not actually HARD to design a safe intersection: 1- The yellow light needs to be at least 1 second long per 5mph of actual traffic speed. 2- The "dead time" (time when it's red all 4 ways) needs to be at least 3-4 seconds long. (basically long enough to clear an intersection if someone misjudges the yellow) Instead of doing that. They set the yellows short, and then set the "intersection bar" 20-30 foot past the crosswalk to maximize revenue. As a person who designs intersections and traffic signals for a living, I can assure you that none of the above is correct with respect to the yellow and red times. And the "intersection bar" you speak of is marked at the start of the intersection, which is defined in ARS. It's not just randomly placed. Would you care to enlighten us, then? |
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Would you care to enlighten us, then? Quoted:
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Here in Ahwatukee, we have an intersection with tons of wrecks and people running the light. Chandler and 48th. However where did they just install these cameras? Intersection right before you cross or enter I10 on Ray road, why people finally have a clear shot towards the freeway so they accelerate and trigger the speed camera. , just pure money grab. Of course it's a pure money grab. It's not actually HARD to design a safe intersection: 1- The yellow light needs to be at least 1 second long per 5mph of actual traffic speed. 2- The "dead time" (time when it's red all 4 ways) needs to be at least 3-4 seconds long. (basically long enough to clear an intersection if someone misjudges the yellow) Instead of doing that. They set the yellows short, and then set the "intersection bar" 20-30 foot past the crosswalk to maximize revenue. As a person who designs intersections and traffic signals for a living, I can assure you that none of the above is correct with respect to the yellow and red times. And the "intersection bar" you speak of is marked at the start of the intersection, which is defined in ARS. It's not just randomly placed. Would you care to enlighten us, then? The yellow indication duration is a function of speed and intersection grade and should be between 3-6 seconds unless under extenuating circumstances. The all red clearance interval is a function of speed and intersection width. Most intersections end up needing an all red time of 1-3 seconds (often 2). In Arizona an intersection is defined by the area embraced within the prolongation of the curb lines (ARS 28-601). So that is where they paint the line at intersections with photo enforcement. I have yet to see an intersection where it is placed in the wrong spot, but there may be some out there… Agencies do tend to deviate from standards on occasion. 
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The yellow indication duration is a function of speed and intersection grade and should be between 3-6 seconds unless under extenuating circumstances. The all red clearance interval is a function of speed and intersection width. Most intersections end up needing an all red time of 1-3 seconds (often 2). In Arizona an intersection is defined by the area embraced within the prolongation of the curb lines (ARS 28-601). So that is where they paint the line at intersections with photo enforcement. I have yet to see an intersection where it is placed in the wrong spot, but there may be some out there… Agencies do tend to deviate from standards on occasion. 3-6 seconds is way to short a time on arterial streets in the Metro Area. They need to be a minimum of 7-9 seconds. You cannot safely stop in 3 seconds on a 6 lane road. The actual formula that ensures enough space to safely stop is 5 seconds plus one second for every 5mph above 35mph for the average traffic speed, which in the metro area would be 8-9 seconds. (that's one second per 5 mph of posted limit assuming that the average traffic speed is 10 over the posted limit) Anything shorter is just designed to enhance revenue. Placing the crosswalks 20 ft from the technical start of the intersection is designed to raise revenue. The definition in ARS 28-601 is however very common and how it is designated in most states. (I'm also convinced that every single damn intersection in the City of Chandler is designed to raise revenue...) |
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If the state, city, whoever wanted to ticket red light runners then the state, city, whoever should install and run those cameras. Having a third party company install, maintain, and essentially issue the tickets and kick revenue back to the state, city, whoever is distasteful.
It is like giving a security guard company the power to enforce traffic laws... |
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In Arizona an intersection is defined by the area embraced within the prolongation of the curb lines (ARS 28-601). This BS plays into the camera enforcement. It needs to be changed to the stop line, in the case of a stop sign, or the first line of a crosswalk when present. The current law may have the intersection 'begin' several car lengths into the intersection. Changing this definition would allow motorists to make safer decisions about where to stop, or to continue into the intersection, and would deprive the tax collection cameras a lot of revenue. |
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This BS plays into the camera enforcement. It needs to be changed to the stop line, in the case of a stop sign, or the first line of a crosswalk when present. The current law may have the intersection 'begin' several car lengths into the intersection. Changing this definition would allow motorists to make safer decisions about where to stop, or to continue into the intersection, and would deprive the tax collection cameras a lot of revenue. Quoted:
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In Arizona an intersection is defined by the area embraced within the prolongation of the curb lines (ARS 28-601). This BS plays into the camera enforcement. It needs to be changed to the stop line, in the case of a stop sign, or the first line of a crosswalk when present. The current law may have the intersection 'begin' several car lengths into the intersection. Changing this definition would allow motorists to make safer decisions about where to stop, or to continue into the intersection, and would deprive the tax collection cameras a lot of revenue. Pushing the line back to, like what you suggest, would mean camera enforcement would issue MORE tickets. Enforcement has to wait until the car breaches the line, if the line was pushed back the crosswalk then everyone who stops late or on the crosswalk would get a ticket. |