Posted: 4/16/2014 6:23:16 PM EDT
| I was talking to a search and rescue person for Coconino County and he said officials met recently and were talking about shutting down the forests due to fire danger. Not just shooting and camp fires, but totally shutting them down. Supposedly this might happen as early as next week. |
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Quoted: Sounds like retaliation.... You can't go into the forest just in case you start a fire? |
| Its not an arbitrary decision. FS weights everything from available resources, number of new starts, available funding, weather predictions, current fuel conditions etc. We hit Stage 1 restrictions on the 18th (on the Coconino) and it's typically progressive until a closure occurs. Its a really safe bet that they'll close...its just a matter of when. Two weeks or a month, only the muckety mucks have all the data to make a prediction. Just be careful out there in the mean time and enjoy it while they're open. Once they close we're along for the ride until monsoons start, which they've been telling us may come early. |
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Quoted:
Its not an arbitrary decision. FS weights everything from available resources, number of new starts, available funding, weather predictions, current fuel conditions etc. We hit Stage 1 restrictions on the 18th (on the Coconino) and it's typically progressive until a closure occurs. Its a really safe bet that they'll close...its just a matter of when. Two weeks or a month, only the muckety mucks have all the data to make a prediction. Just be careful out there in the mean time and enjoy it while they're open. Once they close we're along for the ride until monsoons start, which they've been telling us may come early. Well shit. |
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Quoted: I fully expect the forests to be closed early this year, and I fully expect that to be complete closures, and I fully expect that to happen a lot more often in the future. |
There has already been 5-6 suspicious fires started on the outskirts of Flagstaff in the last 2-3 weeks. I heard on the radio that this coincides with when the homeless shelters in town were shutdown for the spring/summer season. Its going to be a long fire season this year... 
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Quoted: Warranted or not its horseshit the Feds only reaction is close public lands when its "dangerous" by way of nature. They need to do better management instead of punishing users. It's only going to get worse. |
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Quoted: I work in Gila/Coconino county,I've been hearing about this since Feb.It sucks,but I can't blame them for doing it.If we have a good monsoon which is doubtful,I'd bet they lift restrictions. +1 here - Its like if it doesn't rain, it will be closed. Thats Life. |
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Heads up to anyone planning to camp in Yavapai County...
http://www.regionalinfo-alert.org/?ycalert=fire-ban-for-yavapai-county-effective-april-18-2014-at-800-a-m |
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Quoted:
Tonto posted as closed to recreational shooting as of this morning at 0800. Bastards. There is no study by the US Government that shooting ammo legal to shoot in the forest can cause a fire. And really, if they can't see you shooting or hear you shooting, are you really shooting? But me, I like to hunt flies. I take a big steamy dump and wait for them. Hard little buggers to hit. |
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Quoted: There is no study by the US Government that shooting ammo legal to shoot in the forest can cause a fire. And really, if they can't see you shooting or hear you shooting, are you really shooting? But me, I like to hunt flies. I take a big steamy dump and wait for them. Hard little buggers to hit. Quoted: Quoted: Tonto posted as closed to recreational shooting as of this morning at 0800. Bastards. There is no study by the US Government that shooting ammo legal to shoot in the forest can cause a fire. And really, if they can't see you shooting or hear you shooting, are you really shooting? But me, I like to hunt flies. I take a big steamy dump and wait for them. Hard little buggers to hit. |
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Quoted:
Have they banned lightning yet? Bitch about it all you want but it won't change the outcome....When they go to Stage III closures the conditions are just too volatile for normal land use. They must cater to the lowest common denominator....and that's the camper who leaves their fire smoldering on Sunday afternoon after they pack up and go home...the city dick that heads out in the middle of fire season with that cool box of orange tipped tracers...etc. Yes it's frustrating to us with some common sense, but there's no common sense/intelligence test before entering national forest and BLM land. If you have a better suggestion for handling public lands then write your congresscritters. Otherwise I'm not going to judge those tasked with managing the land unless they are doing a piss poor job at it. |
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Quoted:
stage 1 ban rec shooting is still allowed check az fire restrictions. Yes and no. Tonto always bans rec. shooting at the lowest fire restriction (because they are a bunch of anti-gun asshats) while the rest of the forrests do not ban re.c shooting until the danger is actually significant. See item #5: http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprd3797041.pdf I don't actually have an issue with them closing access to the forest when the fire danger is significant. However the guys at Tonto absolutely hate guns and shooting, and use every excuse possible to restrict it. |
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Quoted:
Bitch about it all you want but it won't change the outcome....When they go to Stage III closures the conditions are just too volatile for normal land use. They must cater to the lowest common denominator....and that's the camper who leaves their fire smoldering on Sunday afternoon after they pack up and go home...the city dick that heads out in the middle of fire season with that cool box of orange tipped tracers...etc. Yes it's frustrating to us with some common sense, but there's no common sense/intelligence test before entering national forest and BLM land. If you have a better suggestion for handling public lands then write your congresscritters. Otherwise I'm not going to judge those tasked with managing the land unless they are doing a piss poor job at it. Quoted:
Quoted:
Have they banned lightning yet? Bitch about it all you want but it won't change the outcome....When they go to Stage III closures the conditions are just too volatile for normal land use. They must cater to the lowest common denominator....and that's the camper who leaves their fire smoldering on Sunday afternoon after they pack up and go home...the city dick that heads out in the middle of fire season with that cool box of orange tipped tracers...etc. Yes it's frustrating to us with some common sense, but there's no common sense/intelligence test before entering national forest and BLM land. If you have a better suggestion for handling public lands then write your congresscritters. Otherwise I'm not going to judge those tasked with managing the land unless they are doing a piss poor job at it. Closing forests is the equivalent of banning firearms because someone "might" do something. |
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Quoted:
Closing forests is the equivalent of banning firearms because someone "might" do something. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Have they banned lightning yet? Bitch about it all you want but it won't change the outcome....When they go to Stage III closures the conditions are just too volatile for normal land use. They must cater to the lowest common denominator....and that's the camper who leaves their fire smoldering on Sunday afternoon after they pack up and go home...the city dick that heads out in the middle of fire season with that cool box of orange tipped tracers...etc. Yes it's frustrating to us with some common sense, but there's no common sense/intelligence test before entering national forest and BLM land. If you have a better suggestion for handling public lands then write your congresscritters. Otherwise I'm not going to judge those tasked with managing the land unless they are doing a piss poor job at it. Closing forests is the equivalent of banning firearms because someone "might" do something. Mmmmmmmkay... |
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Quoted:
Why not inquire why they have shooting restrictions during Stage 1 fire restrictions when nobody else does until Stage 2. Hold them accountable. HA! That's the problem. The Federal Government is NEVER accountable. The States can't even hold them accountable, let alone someone wanting to enjoy public land without a permit or a fee or an impact study, it goes on. I have inquired of Tonto what study do they have that indicates target shooting causes fires. And they don't have one. They do have anecdotal evidence that fires have occurred where people shoot so therefore, shooting causes fires. There's no accountability so fuck them. I will follow the laws that make sense, just like our dear leader. That's my solution. |
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Quoted:
HA! That's the problem. The Federal Government is NEVER accountable. The States can't even hold them accountable, let alone someone wanting to enjoy public land without a permit or a fee or an impact study, it goes on. I have inquired of Tonto what study do they have that indicates target shooting causes fires. And they don't have one. They do have anecdotal evidence that fires have occurred where people shoot so therefore, shooting causes fires. There's no accountability so fuck them. I will follow the laws that make sense, just like our dear leader. That's my solution. Quoted:
Quoted:
Why not inquire why they have shooting restrictions during Stage 1 fire restrictions when nobody else does until Stage 2. Hold them accountable. HA! That's the problem. The Federal Government is NEVER accountable. The States can't even hold them accountable, let alone someone wanting to enjoy public land without a permit or a fee or an impact study, it goes on. I have inquired of Tonto what study do they have that indicates target shooting causes fires. And they don't have one. They do have anecdotal evidence that fires have occurred where people shoot so therefore, shooting causes fires. There's no accountability so fuck them. I will follow the laws that make sense, just like our dear leader. That's my solution. Well who has anyone contacted? Sounds like a good argument if every other NF allows shooting during Stage 1 restrictions. I know I would be writing my congressman if there was a perception of excessive regulation whenother NF's in more severe drought conditions are still allowing shooting. There have already been some recent large fires down here and we can still shoot. If you are waiting for a government official to do something on their own nothing will happen. Squeaky wheel gets the lube and all.... |
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Camped all weekend up by stone man lake, out of about 40 or so campers two had fires burning all weekend. Ran into forest ranger this morning, he said someone reported those two campers and he was heading their way
No way they going to say they didn't know because they were camping about 100 yards from a no fire sign on the road |
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