Posted: 9/18/2013 9:27:49 AM EDT
| FUCK UM ........................http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/story/23466069/2013/09/18/full-letter-written-by-starbucks-ceo-asking-customers-to-leave-guns-at-home |
| As a daily Starbucks customer for over a decade this pains me greatly. They caved into the demands of a SMALL group of people and no longer welcome anyone carrying a "weapon". The support for allowing individuals to carry a firearm in their store overwhelmingly outnumbered the complaints against the policy, and they caved anyways. So...fuck them. I'll be doing business elsewhere, but the problem becomes finding a good local coffee shop that is gun friendly. The entire "cafe" culture is very liberal and anti 2A. This may be an opportunity for someone to over an overtly pro 2A coffee shop. |
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Quoted:
What is sad is all they wanted to do is comply with the law governing their locations. As it is they are not out right banning guns. They wanted no part of the argument and just wanted to sell coffee. Sadly, idiots from both sides of the argument chose to ignore the property/store owners' wishes. People from our side of the argument have even infringed on their trademark (in essence, their identity) to make a political point. What more do you want Starbucks to do? They aren't telling the ANTIS no, but in essence asking people carrying to do it discreetly. <a href="http://s1116.photobucket.com/user/jacksfriend/media/Make%20A%20Point/GunsNCoffee_zps945df42f.png.html" target="_blank">http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k562/jacksfriend/Make%20A%20Point/GunsNCoffee_zps945df42f.png</a> I love guns. I carry a gun. At the same time though I admit that if I were to see people sitting at a table in a coffee bar with ARs in hand, my situational awareness is going up a few notches. It may be legal, but it is not a common occurrence either in the store or on the street. Just because you CAN do something completely legal doesn't mean it's a good idea to do it. Having written all that, I think Starbucks burns their coffee and prefer Dunkin' Donuts myself. Does anyone know for sure what DD's policy is? As I have posted in another thread: This I don't see this as a win for the neo-socialists. Quite frankly I find it humerous that they consider it to be one. Think about this, would they have issued that statement had the Navy Yard shooting not taken place? With that said though, I have been going to SB lately to support them rather than an independent startup in my area that recently opened. The next time I'm out for coffee it will be the new place. Jester |
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http://practicaltacticalpodcast.com/starbucks/
Snippet....
This Is Why We Cant Have Nice Things – Starbucks Instead of quietly supporting a company through the purchase of their product to show your appreciation, you just had to load up an AR, AK, or shotgun or put on that fancy “tactical” drop leg holster, call all of your gun-guy friends to meet you there, and march into the place to “Make a statement” and “educate” people on our rights. You had to throw that rifle on your back, knowing damn good and well you were going to cause a scene. If you DIDNT know you were going to cause a scene, you’re an idiot when you consider the multiple “active killer/mass murder” incidents of very recent notoriety. You have allowed those of us who choose to be smart regarding these matters to get a black eye from society and, you are directly responsible for allowing the left a small victory. We have turned the debate into a joke. Yes, we are all responsible. Whether youre an (A) “in your face activist” as previously mentioned, or a (B) gun owner who doesnt agree with them but remains silent and thereby complicit, we are all responsible. Own it. 
This is why we can’t have nice things. Don’t blame Starbucks, and don’t blame liberals. Blame stupid gun owners. Look in the mirror, own it, give yourself a pep-talk, and go fix it. |
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We believe that gun policy should be addressed by government and law enforcement—not by Starbucks and our store partners.
Today we are respectfully requesting that customers no longer bring firearms into our stores or outdoor seating areas—even in states where "open carry" is permitted—unless they are authorized law enforcement personnel. HUH? 
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Starbucks doesn't give a rat's ass if you carry a holstered pistol in and drink your coffee. What they care about is the open carry activists bringing in rifles and shotguns or taking their pistols out of the holster and finger fucking them and turning their business locations into political rallies. All without prior consent or a single give a shit about the owner of the business or his patrons. And fuck yes, when you're on private property you goddam well ask for permission BEFORE you do that shit. I'd have run the fuckers off myself if they did that on my property without asking first, and if they refused they'd be talking to the police. |
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I can appreciate that Starbucks doesn't want to be thrust into the debate, but this line really rubbed me the wrong way:
. . . and also because enforcing a ban would potentially require our partners to confront armed customers, and that is not a role I am comfortable asking Starbucks partners to take on. |
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Yup. This didn't have to even be an issue. We're our own worst enemies.
Quoted:
http://practicaltacticalpodcast.com/starbucks/ Quoted:
http://practicaltacticalpodcast.com/starbucks/ Snippet....
This Is Why We Cant Have Nice Things – Starbucks Instead of quietly supporting a company through the purchase of their product to show your appreciation, you just had to load up an AR, AK, or shotgun or put on that fancy “tactical” drop leg holster, call all of your gun-guy friends to meet you there, and march into the place to “Make a statement” and “educate” people on our rights. You had to throw that rifle on your back, knowing damn good and well you were going to cause a scene. If you DIDNT know you were going to cause a scene, you’re an idiot when you consider the multiple “active killer/mass murder” incidents of very recent notoriety. You have allowed those of us who choose to be smart regarding these matters to get a black eye from society and, you are directly responsible for allowing the left a small victory. We have turned the debate into a joke. Yes, we are all responsible. Whether youre an (A) “in your face activist” as previously mentioned, or a (B) gun owner who doesnt agree with them but remains silent and thereby complicit, we are all responsible. Own it. http://practicaltacticalpodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Fashion-Accessory.jpg This is why we can’t have nice things. Don’t blame Starbucks, and don’t blame liberals. Blame stupid gun owners. Look in the mirror, own it, give yourself a pep-talk, and go fix it. |
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Quoted:
Yup. This didn't have to even be an issue. We're our own worst enemies. Quoted:
Yup. This didn't have to even be an issue. We're our own worst enemies. Quoted:
http://practicaltacticalpodcast.com/starbucks/ Snippet....
This Is Why We Cant Have Nice Things – Starbucks Instead of quietly supporting a company through the purchase of their product to show your appreciation, you just had to load up an AR, AK, or shotgun or put on that fancy “tactical” drop leg holster, call all of your gun-guy friends to meet you there, and march into the place to “Make a statement” and “educate” people on our rights. You had to throw that rifle on your back, knowing damn good and well you were going to cause a scene. If you DIDNT know you were going to cause a scene, you’re an idiot when you consider the multiple “active killer/mass murder” incidents of very recent notoriety. You have allowed those of us who choose to be smart regarding these matters to get a black eye from society and, you are directly responsible for allowing the left a small victory. We have turned the debate into a joke. Yes, we are all responsible. Whether youre an (A) “in your face activist” as previously mentioned, or a (B) gun owner who doesnt agree with them but remains silent and thereby complicit, we are all responsible. Own it. http://practicaltacticalpodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Fashion-Accessory.jpg This is why we can’t have nice things. Don’t blame Starbucks, and don’t blame liberals. Blame stupid gun owners. Look in the mirror, own it, give yourself a pep-talk, and go fix it. Sad, I liked Starbucks. They made good tea, I'm not a coffee person. 
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Quoted: As a daily Starbucks customer for over a decade this pains me greatly. They caved into the demands of a SMALL group of people and no longer welcome anyone carrying a "weapon". The support for allowing individuals to carry a firearm in their store overwhelmingly outnumbered the complaints against the policy, and they caved anyways. So...fuck them. I'll be doing business elsewhere, but the problem becomes finding a good local coffee shop that is gun friendly. The entire "cafe" culture is very liberal and anti 2A. This may be an opportunity for someone to over an overtly pro 2A coffee shop. |
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Quoted:
THIS Quoted:
Quoted:
I hate to "eat our own" but I think the "Starbucks Appreciation day" actually HURT more than helped our cause... well at least the ones who showed up with AR15s and made a huge point out of something that STarbucks specifically asked us not to do. THIS Agreed. Rights are rights but we should be professional and polite. What if the issue was free speech and activists were burning US Flags at SB? I like the "we just can't have nice things"! |
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Open carried there this morning.
No fucks were given...... They were doing a pay it forward thing and some older lady paid for my order even though it came out to like 5 times as much as hers..... Paid for the person behind me who said thanks. Again, no fucks were given. ETA: what I find funny about it is: 1. Those who are all pissy obviously don't care about the rights a property owner has to make decisions about his own company and property, yet they are the ones who don't want big brother in their lives the most. 2. If SB used to have "no weapons" signs, but took them down and put "concealed weapons only, please" signs up instead, those who are all pissed right now would be talking about how big of a own this is for everyone..... |
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Yeah, sadly we pro-gunners are sometimes our own worst enemy. It was simply a push back by Starbucks because some gun owners just had to be out there rubbing their guns (not just handguns but rifles) in people's noses.
Bottom line, you have to realize that all Starbucks wants to do is simply go about their business of selling coffee without all the drama. All they doing is trying not to alienate any of their customers. If pro-gunners don't get it then its their own fault. |
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Quoted:
Yeah, sadly we pro-gunners are sometimes our own worst enemy. It was simply a push back by Starbucks because some gun owners just had to be out there rubbing their guns (not just handguns but rifles) in people's noses. Bottom line, you have to realize that all Starbucks wants to do is simply go about their business of selling coffee without all the drama. All they doing is trying not to alienate any of their customers. If pro-gunners don't get it then its their own fault. Sorry, but bullshit. Moms Demand Action (I'll just say MDA) and others like them created the issue. MDA threw Starbucks into this. MDA demonized Starbucks. MDA organized boycotts of Starbucks. Gun owners SUPPORTED Starbucks both in the social spotlight and financially by patronizing them. Starbucks sees the above, and moves more anti-gun. Anyone who thinks they were 'neutral' is fooling only themselves. Starbucks has very good PR people, and these discussions prove it. |
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All of you who have an issue with the COUNTER demonstration by gun owners conveniently ignore the fact that it wasn't gun owners who made this an issue with Starbucks. For whatever reason, a couple of anti-gun groups decided to make Starbucks a target for their political agenda last year by organizing people to boycott Starbucks over their policy to allow patrons to carry a firearm in their establishments where not otherwise prohibited by law. "Moms Demand Action" is the group the politicized this bullshit -- not gun owners. When word got out about the planned protests last year a grassroots movement began spontaneously and unorganized by any political group to COUNTER protest the anti-gun group on the day of the planned protest. Last year the support of customers who favored Starbucks policy vastly outnumbers those that were protesting against it. Starbucks reiterated their policy and life went on.
Until THIS year when the same group decided to once again organize a protest to boycott Starbucks on a specific Saturday August. Once again, a grassroots effort was launched via social media and a massive counter demonstration -- a buy-cott -- was staged on that Saturday by gun owner who wished to express to Starbucks that they supported their corporate policy to allow patrons to carry a firearm in their stores where otherwise permitted by law. The anti-gun protest was completely drowned out by those who showed up to support Starbucks. They set record sales in many stores that entire weekend. Most people (like myself) went into their local store, bought a beverage, and spoke to the manage to thank them for supporting gun owners. Some were open carrying while doing so. A SMALL handful of people brought a rifle with them. Small -- as in "I can count them on one hand" small. I'm in agreement that those individuals did none of us a favor by doing so, but to assert that the entire "buy-cott" and show of support by gun owners was a mistake is just absolute bullshit. The alternative was to sit back, say nothing, do nothing, and let the anti-gun crowd be the only voices heard on the topic. Why in the fuck are so many of you willing to throw the gun owners under the bus who showed up to express their approval of Starbucks policy? If you're pissed that gun owners "pushed the issue" and politicized the policy of a corporation, why do you willfully ignore the fact that it was the ANTI-gun organizations that are responsible for forcing Starbucks to change their policy? TWICE!! They have done it twice in the last year and you fuckers are getting butthurt over those of us who counter-demonstrated? SMH -- you sicken me. |
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First... i don't believe i have spent over $20 in starbucks over my lifetime, so i could give 2 goat shits about their policies.
-I agree 100% "The anti's started it". Does not matter i squirt of piss. That excuse didn't fly when i was a kid and it doesn't fly now. -I believe in the 1A as much as the 2A...but i will not take a dump and then burn the American Flag to prove it. -The lets put on our shitty holster/mag carrier combo and grab the AR/Shotgun/AK 400 lb gorilla crowd fucked it up. -"We" threw Starbucks desire to stay out of it and "comply with local law" in their faces with stupidity. -The backlash so far has been a basic "NON-CHANGE" in policy....and again the gunnies are going batshit crazy. -Being a gun owner does not make someone my friend or mean i will align with them. Do dumb shit and i will call people on it. This time gunnies did dumb shit. Coming soon to ALL Starbucks: 
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Quoted:
-The lets put on our shitty holster/mag carrier combo and grab the AR/Shotgun/AK 400 lb gorilla crowd fucked it up. Quoted:
-The lets put on our shitty holster/mag carrier combo and grab the AR/Shotgun/AK 400 lb gorilla crowd fucked it up. Correct. So the whole 'we have nobody to blame but ourselves' and 'own worst enemy' crowds need to shut the fuck up, rethink their understanding of the issue, and stop associating the rest of us with them. Some gun owners shot up a grade school in Newtown. Had an assault weapons ban gone into place would the same morons be proclaiming that 'we' have nobody to blame but ourselves? Or would the blame be set at the foot of the psychopath? I didn't carry an AR, unslung, into aStarbucks, so I sure as shit do not blame myself. Quoted:
-"We" threw Starbucks desire to stay out of it and "comply with local law" in their faces with stupidity. See above for reiteration of the 'we' issue. Quoted:
-The backlash so far has been a basic "NON-CHANGE" in policy....and again the gunnies are going batshit crazy. The backlash is in fact a formal announcement that firearms are not welcome. While I certainly don't expect it to come to it, that IS the first step to a trespass party, an if anyone here gives a damn about the rights of EVERYONE to manage private property as they see fit, they'll accept this request at face value. Quoted:
-Being a gun owner does not make someone my friend or mean i will align with them. Do dumb shit and i will call people on it. This time gunnies did dumb shit. Again, see initial point. Quoted:
Coming soon to ALL Starbucks: http://www.mydoorsign.com/img/lg/S/No-Firearms-Allowed-Notice-Sign-S-4301.gif Won't bother me since I won't be there =) |
| So, Jason, when Moms Demand Action pick their next target (and there will be a next one) you're perfectly OK with just sitting it out, correct? Gun owners and 2A advocates should do nothing to counter the shrill, panicked voices of the anti-gun crowd. Is that really what you (and others) are saying? |
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Quoted:
I am for a smarter response. Make them the lunatics. Be professional, polite and tell said business discreetly that you appreciate their position. Bro -- you KNOW that's how it was handled by me and 99% of everyone who showed up for the buy-cott. You have let the opposition twist this bullshit into making you believe we all showed up like Yosemite Sam cracked out on gug-totin Kool Aid, finger-fucking our weapons, and shouting "WOOOOOHOOOO" while we fired off a few rounds into the ceiling. WTF? I went to six different Starbucks that weekend and had a polite conversation with each manager (several of who already knew me as a frequent customer) to thank them for supporting their customers who carry firearms. Only one of them had heard of the MDA protest but ALL of them had heard from several other people that day who were there to specifically support Starbucks policy. Overall, we as gun owners represented very, very well. These images of people carrying AR15s and shotgun are not an accurate reflection of what went on that weekend from gun owners. |
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I know you did Ed, like you said along with the GREAT majority. I am not calling you a retard...but the BAD examples.
Best analogy i have heard is about how people always ask "where are the good Muslims speaking out about the shithead ones?" Will this should be looked at as the "good" gunnies speaking out about the shithead gunnies. |
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Best analogy i have heard is about how people always ask "where are the good Muslims speaking out about the shithead ones?" Will this should be looked at as the "good" gunnies speaking out about the shithead gunnies. I agree, that's exactly how it should be. But while we're publicly distancing ourselves from that fringe we shouldn't be blaming ourselves as well. The FRINGE fucked up, not the pro-gun community. Much like the fringe fucked up and blew people up, not the majority/masses of muslims out there living their lives. (As a complete aside, as long as one watches something other than O'Reilly, it hasn't been too hard to find muslims speaking out against extremists. Took me quite a while to realize that having been a Bill-Zombie for way too long.) |
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The gun community needs to police it's own and tell people that choose to open carry long guns it is inappropriate and detrimental.
There are people that open carry as a lifestyle and do it as a an every day thing, and there are people who do it to be offensive and cause a scene. The first is fine, the second doesn't help anything. I open carried every day for 8 years. One of the reasons I stopped was the open carry crowd became radicalized and stopped caring about normalizing the image of gun owners, and just did stuff to get attention or be offensive. Defending open carry when so many abuse it and so many other gun people hate it is tedious. A local open carry group that regularly met at a Golden Coral caused No Guns signs to be posted there through their actions. Reading their forum posts at the time they would discuss what gun to carry to get the most attention. Serbu shorty in leg rig, AR pistol, Glock with 30 round magazines. The reaction isn't surprising. I don't eat at restaurants that post no guns signs, I don't shop at Costco or other businesses that post no guns signs. When Starbucks posts ill stop going there. Until then their statement really amounts to "stop bothering us with this stuff" |
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Quoted:
The gun community needs to police it's own and tell people that choose to open carry long guns it is inappropriate and detrimental. There are people that open carry as a lifestyle and do it as a an every day thing, and there are people who do it to be offensive and cause a scene. The first is fine, the second doesn't help anything. I open carried every day for 8 years. One of the reasons I stopped was the open carry crowd became radicalized and stopped caring about normalizing the image of gun owners, and just did stuff to get attention or be offensive. Defending open carry when so many abuse it and so many other gun people hate it is tedious. A local open carry group that regularly met at a Golden Coral caused No Guns signs to be posted there through their actions. Reading their forum posts at the time they would discuss what gun to carry to get the most attention. Serbu shorty in leg rig, AR pistol, Glock with 30 round magazines. The reaction isn't surprising. I don't eat at restaurants that post no guns signs, I don't shop at Costco or other businesses that post no guns signs. When Starbucks posts ill stop going there. Until then their statement really amounts to "stop bothering us with this stuff" No more Costco signs though, they're gone! |
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Quoted:
The gun community needs to police it's own and tell people that choose to open carry long guns it is inappropriate and detrimental. There are people that open carry as a lifestyle and do it as a an every day thing, and there are people who do it to be offensive and cause a scene. The first is fine, the second doesn't help anything. I open carried every day for 8 years. One of the reasons I stopped was the open carry crowd became radicalized and stopped caring about normalizing the image of gun owners, and just did stuff to get attention or be offensive. Defending open carry when so many abuse it and so many other gun people hate it is tedious. A local open carry group that regularly met at a Golden Coral caused No Guns signs to be posted there through their actions. Reading their forum posts at the time they would discuss what gun to carry to get the most attention. Serbu shorty in leg rig, AR pistol, Glock with 30 round magazines. The reaction isn't surprising. I don't eat at restaurants that post no guns signs, I don't shop at Costco or other businesses that post no guns signs. When Starbucks posts ill stop going there. Until then their statement really amounts to "stop bothering us with this stuff" I wondering why those events disappeared from azs and ocdo. |
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As I understand it Schultz is actually Pro-2A. But he is also a business man. He asked repeatedly that his business not to be put into the debate and it really wasn't until people started carrying long guns and making a big deal about it that it became an issue.
Think about it... if he was really super anti-2a he would have banned firearms a long time ago. I can see both sides of this argument. Richard |