Posted: 11/27/2012 9:08:35 AM EDT
| Have they always had a "no weapons" sign? I usually look for the signs and didn't notice one until last weekend at their Norterra location. Not gonna make me leave my pistol in the car, but I am disappoint. AMC has had the signs for a while, if I remember right. That's part of the reason we go to Harkins instead. Wrote 'em an email asking if it was corporate policy and for how long and why they chose to disregard our safety. |
|
Dan Harkins is a California hippy. I don't really mean that in a name calling way. That is just what he is. He would probably agree with that assessment. Every time I see him he is wearing the same gray or black suit and it always looks like he just pulled it from the dryer.
I don't know him but my wife has worked with him and his staff for several years. I can only image that his only attitude on guns is "just say no" |
|
Quoted:
I dont see any signs at the one near me. Must be because you live in the ghetto.  That IS the one nearest you. A nice lady actually wrote me a thoughtfully written response, which pleasantly surprised me. I'll be responding tomorrow but it basically looks like they're doing the typical move of trying to please everyone. I'll probably point out that they could have alienated less customers by posting a sign saying that they prefer people not carry weapons openly. Here's her response: Dear Mr. Betts,
Thank you for taking the time to write to us about your recent visit to Norterra; and for the chance to assist you. We strive to provide the best movie going experience at all times and the success of our theatres is directly related to the satisfaction of our guests. We take the safety and comfort of our guests very seriously. Harkins Theatres has been family owned and operated since 1933, and we feel as though we are entertaining our friends and family in our theatres. When attending our theatres there are some general rules we enact to ensure the safety, peace of mind and enjoyment of all of our guests. Our goal is to maintain a family friendly environment. To that end, we do restrict noticeable weapons of all kinds in our theatres. We have always asked our managers to approach guests with noticeable weapons, whether observed by an employee or guest, and ask that guest to remove the weapon from the theatre. Additionally, we have signage at our entrance doors to further communicate that we do not allow noticeable weapons. This was not a change in our policy, but an attempt to provide more information. I hope that I have adequately answered your question and wanted to thank you again for bringing your concern to my personal attention, providing excellent customer service is of paramount concern to us, and plays a vital role in assisting us in reaching our goals. I do hope that you understand our position on this matter and will continue to choose Harkins Theatres. Have a wonderful evening. ETA: you wasted post number 1187 on that. |
|
Quoted:
Noticed the stickers when I went to see Obama 2016 Here is the number to call to voice your concern :480-627-7777 I was told that they did want to allow ccw, but they are not sure how to do it. What I intend to tell her is that their signs have no force of law anyway so in a sense they ARE allowing CCW because they couldn't possibly know if a person was carrying concealed and a person isn't breaking the law until they have been duly notified that they must leave. I may also touch on the fact that it was a no weapons policy that was partially to blame for the deaths at Aurora, if I can think of a careful way of saying it. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I dont see any signs at the one near me. Must be because you live in the ghetto. That IS the one nearest you. A nice lady actually wrote me a thoughtfully written response, which pleasantly surprised me. I'll be responding tomorrow but it basically looks like they're doing the typical move of trying to please everyone. I'll probably point out that they could have alienated less customers by posting a sign saying that they prefer people not carry weapons openly. Here's her response: Dear Mr. Betts,
Thank you for taking the time to write to us about your recent visit to Norterra; and for the chance to assist you. We strive to provide the best movie going experience at all times and the success of our theatres is directly related to the satisfaction of our guests. We take the safety and comfort of our guests very seriously. Harkins Theatres has been family owned and operated since 1933, and we feel as though we are entertaining our friends and family in our theatres. When attending our theatres there are some general rules we enact to ensure the safety, peace of mind and enjoyment of all of our guests. Our goal is to maintain a family friendly environment. To that end, we do restrict noticeable weapons of all kinds in our theatres. We have always asked our managers to approach guests with noticeable weapons, whether observed by an employee or guest, and ask that guest to remove the weapon from the theatre. Additionally, we have signage at our entrance doors to further communicate that we do not allow noticeable weapons. This was not a change in our policy, but an attempt to provide more information. I hope that I have adequately answered your question and wanted to thank you again for bringing your concern to my personal attention, providing excellent customer service is of paramount concern to us, and plays a vital role in assisting us in reaching our goals. I do hope that you understand our position on this matter and will continue to choose Harkins Theatres. Have a wonderful evening. ETA: you wasted post number 1187 on that. But, did they give you free tickets for the inconvenience? Because if so, I'm writing an email right NOW!
|
|
Quoted:
Noticed the stickers when I went to see Obama 2016 Here is the number to call to voice your concern :480-627-7777 I was told that they did want to allow ccw, but they are not sure how to do it. "Weapons Prohibited Unless in Compliance with ARS Section (CCW section)"...Basha's has similar signs posted that allow concealed carry. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Noticed the stickers when I went to see Obama 2016 Here is the number to call to voice your concern :480-627-7777 I was told that they did want to allow ccw, but they are not sure how to do it. "Weapons Prohibited Unless in Compliance with ARS Section (CCW section)"...Basha's has similar signs posted that allow concealed carry. This I did my best to explain this idea over the phone. They told me that they had an issue where a patron came in the theater with an ar15 on his back after coming from the gun show (before Colorado) which of course freaked people out... Does AZCDL or similar organization provide a sign that reads this way? Taking the "how do I allow legal CCW" factor out may win a few businesses back. |
|
Harkins Lady:
We have always asked our managers to approach guests with noticeable weapons, whether observed by an employee or guest, and ask that guest to remove the weapon from the theatre. Additionally, we have signage at our entrance doors to further communicate that we do not allow noticeable weapons. This was not a change in our policy, but an attempt to provide more information. I can dig that. I'd like to think I'm all about the constitutional amendment to bear arms, but I see no need to strap an AR to your back and cruise the local movie theater. On the flip side of that, I'd guess I've gone to a harkins once a month for the last two years, a minimum 24 times, each time not empty handed. The point they're trying to make is that someone carrying a rifle on their person will probably degrade their operating income when women, children, hippies, and the uneducated public stop showing up to the movies. Movie theaters and malls are the two places I'll continually go out of my way to CC in. Signs be damned. Both locales have the inherent propensity (and now have a pretty good track record) for whack jobs spraying crowds full of people. I carry discretely and don't make a show of the firearm under my shirt. If I were ever approached by mall or movie personnel and asked to leave, I'd leave. Reality is, if you properly carry concealed, you'll not have an issue anywhere. |
| The Constitution prohibits the government from restricting possession and carry of arms. It does not and should not prohibit property owners from determining what happens on their property. They have the right to run their property as they wish and we have the right to choose whether or not to patronize their establishment. It is an important part of activism, though, to have friendly and cordial discussions with them so they understand the legal and political issues at play. |
|
Quoted:
The Constitution prohibits the government from restricting possession and carry of arms. It does not and should not prohibit property owners from determining what happens on their property. They have the right to run their property as they wish and we have the right to choose whether or not to patronize their establishment. It is an important part of activism, though, to have friendly and cordial discussions with them so they understand the legal and political issues at play. Nail on the head. Anyone need some more of our "Why you should allow CCW" cards? Just drop me an IM with your address. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
The Constitution prohibits the government from restricting possession and carry of arms. It does not and should not prohibit property owners from determining what happens on their property. They have the right to run their property as they wish and we have the right to choose whether or not to patronize their establishment. It is an important part of activism, though, to have friendly and cordial discussions with them so they understand the legal and political issues at play. Nail on the head. Anyone need some more of our "Why you should allow CCW" cards? Just drop me an IM with your address. Can you email me the file? I know I have some of your cards but can't find them. [email protected] |
|
Quoted: Yeah they do, and they got rid of veteran dicsounts. Double the price for no apparent reason as well.Quoted: A price for a couple to see a movie at Harkins with 2 drinks and a popcorn = 16.00 A price for a couple to see a movie at AMC with 2 drinks and a popcorn = 35.00 I'm sticking with harkins. Last I remember AMC had "no weapons" signs too. |
|
Quoted:
Can you email me the file? I know I have some of your cards but can't find them. [email protected] Do you want just the description that we put on the back of the card? |
|
I have ALWAYS considered "No Weapons" signs as meaning the business does not want to see weapons. In the response from Harkins, it appears that is their intent. They do not want to see "noticable" weapons. I like Harkins much better than AMC anyways, but AMC does have better mantinee prices. Im an old man, I can't be seeing movies past 5 o'clock anyways especially when those damn kids show up and make a ruckus... get off my lawn!
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Can you email me the file? I know I have some of your cards but can't find them. [email protected] Do you want just the description that we put on the back of the card? That would be fine if you don't have a .pdf or .jpg, etc of it. In that case you could just post the text here. |
|
Quoted:
The Constitution prohibits the government from restricting possession and carry of arms. It does not and should not prohibit property owners from determining what happens on their property. They have the right to run their property as they wish and we have the right to choose whether or not to patronize their establishment. It is an important part of activism, though, to have friendly and cordial discussions with them so they understand the legal and political issues at play. the WINNER of thread statements is above 
|
|
My response:
Thank you very much for replying to me personally. If I understand correctly, your issue is with openly visible weapons, not with lawfully concealed weapons. That is an important distinction and perfectly reasonable. Openly carried firearms can be troubling to some people and I'm sure you have no desire to alienate any patron. I think most people who carry a firearm would agree that a property owner has every right to decide what happens on his or her property. I think you can agree that protecting self and his family is the most important job a man or woman has. May I suggest better wording for your sign so as to prevent confusion and avoid alienating patrons? Other businesses have posted signs with wording such as "No visible weapons," or "No weapons, except in accordance with ARS 13-3112," (that's the section of AZ statute that governs concealed carry.
As you are well aware there are quite a few armed citizens in Arizona. What you may not be aware of is the fact that signs have almost no legal authority. While Dan Harkins has every right to determine what happens on his properties, a sign carries no legal authority in communicating that intent. As you mention, a person must be personally informed. After that, failure to comply is trespassing. Many of your patrons may not even notice the sign. Those who do may decide to leave their lawfully concealed weapon in their car because they misunderstand the sign. They may choose to ignore it and carry anyway. They may believe that the sign applies to the concealed carry of weapons and decide that they would rather not spend their hard earned dollars at a business that has such a cavalier attitude to their safety. It is very important to consider that the signs actually have no positive effect whatsoever. Few patrons will even notice the roughly 4" square, transparent backed sticker. Anyone with ill intent will simply walk past the sign just as the man in Aurora did. If a patron does see the sign, do you suppose that any of them will sign in relief thinking "Oh, thank goodness they prohibit weapons here," and decide to go ahead and watch a movie? Do you suppose that anyone would decide not to watch a movie in one of your theaters because the sign isn't there? So the sign might cause a person to decide not to patronize your theater but it can't possibly convince any person to attend. I know this may seem like a very small issue to you, but to many of us it is very important. Thank you again for taking the time to personally respond. If you would like to discuss this further or have any questions at all it would be my pleasure to hear from you again. Additionally, if you are interested in the legal matters involved in this issue or would like some guidance in designing a less exclusionary sign, please contact the kind folks at AZDCL (www.azcdl.org). |