Posted: 1/6/2012 12:45:41 PM EDT
| If i were to sale a gun/rifle to one of my buddies here in AZ, how do I show that I have sold it to him? Lets say he did somethign illigal with it and the I was the first owner, how do I show that I had sold to him, and keep me legally safe? |
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I hope you're telling people up front before they drive over that you require that, because on a used gun sale I wouldn't do it. Maybe you guys should sell your guns to a gun shop if you're that concerned.
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Quoted: I hope you're telling people up front before they drive over that you require that, because on a used gun sale I wouldn't do it. Maybe you guys should sell your guns to a gun shop if you're that concerned. Me too. I wouldn't sign one of those. That is the whole point of a PRIVATE sale. Keyword PRIVATE. Easy solution. If you are afraid he is going to commit a crime with it then don't sell it to him. Even if he did commit a crime with it you wouldn't get in trouble over that. Did you buy the gun using a CCW? Because if you did more likely then not no one has any proof you bought it. Gun stores throw them away after a few years and even if they didn't the police aren't magical. |
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Quoted: Thank you for the info guys, He's one of my soldiers and he wanted to sell his rifle to one of his battle buddiesand didn't know how to go about it in a legal matter. Thank you for the info again  up until this post, i was going to state that if you are worried about one of your buddies doing something illegal with a firearm, then maybe you shouldn't be selling it to him. |
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Quoted:
I hope you're telling people up front before they drive over that you require that, because on a used gun sale I wouldn't do it. Maybe you guys should sell your guns to a gun shop if you're that concerned. thats very similar to my bill of sale. I have never had anyone complain or refuse.... and personally if they have a problem with it I wouldn't want to sell to them anyway.. |
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Quoted: Did you buy the gun using a CCW? Because if you did more likely then not no one has any proof you bought it. Gun stores throw them away after a few years and even if they didn't the police aren't magical. FFL's are required to keep their 4473's for 20 years for completed transfers and 5 years for ones denied by NICS last time I checked. Their bound books must be kept until the apocalypse if I recall correctly. Any FFL's that go out of business surrender all their stored 4473's to the BATFE. |
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Did you buy the gun using a CCW? Because if you did more likely then not no one has any proof you bought it. Gun stores throw them away after a few years and even if they didn't the police aren't magical. FFL's are required to keep their 4473's for 20 years for completed transfers and 5 years for ones denied by NICS last time I checked. Their bound books must be kept until the apocalypse if I recall correctly. Any FFL's that go out of business surrender all their stored 4473's to the BATFE. wrong FFL's are only required to keep 4473's for 8 years |
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Quoted: Quoted: Did you buy the gun using a CCW? Because if you did more likely then not no one has any proof you bought it. Gun stores throw them away after a few years and even if they didn't the police aren't magical. FFL's are required to keep their 4473's for 20 years for completed transfers and 5 years for ones denied by NICS last time I checked. Their bound books must be kept until the apocalypse if I recall correctly. Any FFL's that go out of business surrender all their stored 4473's to the BATFE. When I had an FFL, these were the rules...not sure if they changed since then but I doubt they'd get any less stringent. |
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Quoted: Quoted: I hope you're telling people up front before they drive over that you require that, because on a used gun sale I wouldn't do it. Maybe you guys should sell your guns to a gun shop if you're that concerned. thats very similar to my bill of sale. I have never had anyone complain or refuse.... and personally if they have a problem with it I wouldn't want to sell to them anyway.. That's fine, it's your gun you can refuse to sell it to whoever you want. Just put in the sale ad that you require signatures or other kinds of paperwork. Don't surprise people with it after the deal is agreed on and they've gotten cash out and have driven over. That would be the same as a buyer showing up with a personal check as payment. |
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I hope you're telling people up front before they drive over that you require that, because on a used gun sale I wouldn't do it. Maybe you guys should sell your guns to a gun shop if you're that concerned. I don't do it, and I don't think I would want to sign one, I'm just answering the OP's question. |
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I hope you're telling people up front before they drive over that you require that, because on a used gun sale I wouldn't do it. Maybe you guys should sell your guns to a gun shop if you're that concerned. thats very similar to my bill of sale. I have never had anyone complain or refuse.... and personally if they have a problem with it I wouldn't want to sell to them anyway.. That's fine, it's your gun you can refuse to sell it to whoever you want. Just put in the sale ad that you require signatures or other kinds of paperwork. Don't surprise people with it after the deal is agreed on and they've gotten cash out and have driven over. That would be the same as a buyer showing up with a personal check as payment. my first question is always do you mind a bill of sale that documents your name and ID number. if they have an issue its probably they are hiding something and i wont feel comfortable with the sale. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Did you buy the gun using a CCW? Because if you did more likely then not no one has any proof you bought it. Gun stores throw them away after a few years and even if they didn't the police aren't magical. FFL's are required to keep their 4473's for 20 years for completed transfers and 5 years for ones denied by NICS last time I checked. Their bound books must be kept until the apocalypse if I recall correctly. Any FFL's that go out of business surrender all their stored 4473's to the BATFE. wrong FFL's are only required to keep 4473's for 8 years= Online info at ATF would seem to indicate otherwise: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/brady-law.html#4473-nics-denied Q: Do FFLs have to keep a copy of ATF Form 4473 if the transaction is denied or for some other reason is not completed? FFLs must keep a copy of each ATF Form 4473 for which a NICS check has been initiated, regardless of whether the transfer of the firearm was made. If the transfer is not made, the FFL must keep the Form 4473 for 5 years after the date of the NICS inquiry. If the transfer is made, the FFL must keep the Form 4473 for 20 years after the date of the sale or disposition. Forms 4473 with respect to a transfer that did not take place must be separately maintained. [27 CFR 478.129(b)] It's on the 4473 as well: After the seller has completed the firearms transaction, he or she must make the completed, original ATF Form 4473 (which includes the Notices, General Instructions, and Definitions), and any supporting documents, part of his or her permanent records. Such Forms 4473 must be retained for at least 20 years. Filing may be chronological (by date), alphabetical(by name), or numerical (by transaction serial number), as long as all of the seller's completed Forms 4473 are filed in the same manner. FORMS 4473 FOR DENIED/CANCELLED TRANSFERS MUST BE RETAINED: If the transfer of a firearm is denied/cancelled by NICS, or if for any other reason the transfer is not completed after a NICS check is initiated, the licensee must retain the ATF Form 4473 in his or her records for at least 5 years. Forms 4473 with respect to which a sale, delivery, or transfer did not take place shall be separately retained in alphabetical (by name) or chronological (by date of transferee's certification) order. |
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I hope you're telling people up front before they drive over that you require that, because on a used gun sale I wouldn't do it. Maybe you guys should sell your guns to a gun shop if you're that concerned. I would think a bill of sale would work to the benefit of both parties. What if you buy a gun that turns out to be stolen? Personally, I would like to be able to say "I got it from this guy right here, officer." as I handed over the BOS. I would never buy ANYTHING with a serial number on it without a BOS. |
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I hope you're telling people up front before they drive over that you require that, because on a used gun sale I wouldn't do it. Maybe you guys should sell your guns to a gun shop if you're that concerned. I'd only do that if he showed me his CCW Badge or junior FBI Agent certificate. |