Posted: 6/5/2010 2:04:29 PM EDT
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My son an I went out to the desert to pop some caps, normally we would go out towards Superior, but due to time contraints, we went out by Sycamore Creek. Now there are several places, but we typically shoot at a place that is about 175 yards deep against a small rocky ridge that runs north and south for half mile. Lots of brush and small trees so you just can't pull up anywhere and shoot. The shooting spots have been there for decades and the FS has never restricted the area, it is a known shooting area.
We get there and find 2 PUs parked to the right side, they have a couple of dirt bikes and some firearms. Now this spot will allow at least 5 vehicles parked side by side, and everybody can shoot in the same direction without crossing fire. These assholes have their targets set up to the extreme left at about a 30 degree angle, so pulling in next to them on the left and shooting against the hill would be impossible without crossing fire. I have shot there dozens of times with strangers and friends and have never seen this before. There is no doubt in my mind, that these fkheads setup like this to restrict others. Because it is public land, they have no authority to keep others away, so they setup a situation that is unsafe, if someone chooses to shoot there. Dumbshits were real fortunate that they didn't setup with a little more angle, there were several other groups of men shooting 150 yards to the left of their position, a little more angle would have had them ricocheting rounds into these guys, and that would have been ugly. It's celf-centered inconsiderate assholes like this, that make it more and more difficult to have a good time on our public lands. FKRS! |
| Shooters come from all walks of life including morons and inconsiderate folk. I don't see the problem with crossing fire, as long as you aim at your target and they at theirs? I can see going at a steeper angle along the ridge if they're trying to maximize distance and get to about 200 yards. |
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Quoted: First come, first served. You probably don't want to shoot next to them anyway. Get there at 6 am (or earlier) and have the whole place to yourself. Getting there first won't stop the people you don't want to shoot next to from showing up and acting like they own the place. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
First come, first served. You probably don't want to shoot next to them anyway. Get there at 6 am (or earlier) and have the whole place to yourself. Getting there first won't stop the people you don't want to shoot next to from showing up and acting like they own the place. Agree with this. 
OP, did you say something to the knuckleheads or just let it be? |
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I have to agree with the OP if he left and decided not to shoot there. I spent 11 months as Pit NCOIC at Range 214 at Camp Pendleton (near Camp Horno for those that know the area) and have seen more than my fair share of unsafe idiots (yes, Marines can be unsafe idiots, just ask range personnel) and developed a very strong opinion of who I will and will not shoot with. If you are not constantly erring on the side of caution, I do not want to shoot with you. I am out there to enjoy myself, its not combat and safety is mandatory.
Speaking of desert shooting, vice range shooting, how many of you carry a red range flag with you? I really wish someone would sell a range flag kit, but honestly, erecting a flagpole is not that hard to do. 
http://www.letargets.com/estylez_ps.aspx?searchmode=category&searchcatcontext=%7e080000%7e080600 |
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Quoted:
Speaking of desert shooting, vice range shooting, how many of you carry a red range flag with you? I really wish someone would sell a range flag kit, but honestly, erecting a flagpole is not that hard to do. http://www.letargets.com/images/rf-special.jpg http://www.letargets.com/estylez_ps.aspx?searchmode=category&searchcatcontext=%7e080000%7e080600 Not having been in the military, and not noticing a red flag at the shooting ranges I have been to, please educate me on what a "red flag" would have done in the situation that the OP is writing about....I've seen wind socks on shooting ranges, something tells me your "red flag" is for a different purpose. |
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Quoted:
Shooters come from all walks of life including morons and inconsiderate folk. I don't see the problem with crossing fire, as long as you aim at your target and they at theirs? I can see going at a steeper angle along the ridge if they're trying to maximize distance and get to about 200 yards. This. If the OP didn't even try to talk to them, then he has no idea whether they are inconsiderate assholes or just trying to set up in such a way that they can get a longer shot. For example, a 25yd zero with a 7.62 NATO and a 50yd zero with a 5.56mm are both also a 200yd zero, but you need 200yds to confirm this. There is nothing unsafe about "crossing fire." We're not Ghostbusters. OP, next time talk to people. You might be surprised. Of course, when you do this, you should be careful that you aren't the inconsiderate asshole. If I was the only one at a spot and I had set up in such a way as to get the maximum distance that was safe to shoot at and then some jerk came up yelling about how I was unsafe and inconsiderate and needed to move, I might just tell him to go eat a bowl of dicks. ETA: a red flag means the range is hot. It is often used on civilian ranges. Ben Avery is a good example. If you drive down to Florence, you will often see red flags out in the middle of the desert before you get there. Those still indicate a range is hot - an artillery range. I'm not convinced that a range flag would be all that useful for casual shooting in the desert. As has been demonstrated, some shooters don't know what it means; I doubt the average ATV rider would know. Waste of time. Just follow the four rules, including the one about being sure of your target and what's behind it. Choose a large dirt hill to stop and contain rounds and you'll be fine. |
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Well, I know what a red flag means, as does any kid that has been to Boy Scout Camp for the summer, and every vet, even squids, I ever met. More important, most LEO know what it means, as I know of no outdoor range that does not fly one. It would also be defendable in court, ie, my shooting spot was properly marked, including a nationally recognized symbol. It is of course not pertinent to the OP's situation, however I do simpathize with him and will leave an area If there is even a hint of unsafe behavior, which I submit, differs for each shooter. My personal circle are sticklers for muzzle discipline, safe shooting practices, (ear and eye protection) richochet avoidance, and noone would ever tolerate willful destruction of cacti and other vegetation, nor do we leave more than footprints and tire tracks behind when we leave. My biggest pet peave is those assholes that hand a novice a cannon and giggle like fucking idiots when the novice gets hurt or the shit scared out of them.
Again, I just wondered, for those not shooting on a structured range, how many use a range flag as an added measure of safety? |
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Quoted:
Well, I know what a red flag means, as does any kid that has been to Boy Scout Camp for the summer, and every vet, even squids, I ever met. More important, most LEO know what it means, as I know of no outdoor range that does not fly one. It would also be defendable in court, ie, my shooting spot was properly marked, including a nationally recognized symbol. It is of course not pertinent to the OP's situation, however I do simpathize with him and will leave an area If there is even a hint of unsafe behavior, which I submit, differs for each shooter. My personal circle are sticklers for muzzle discipline, safe shooting practices, (ear and eye protection) richochet avoidance, and noone would ever tolerate willful destruction of cacti and other vegetation, nor do we leave more than footprints and tire tracks behind when we leave. My biggest pet peave is those assholes that hand a novice a cannon and giggle like fucking idiots when the novice gets hurt or the shit scared out of them. Again, I just wondered, for those not shooting on a structured range, how many use a range flag as an added measure of safety? The Red flag is a version of the nautical BRAVO flag which signifies "I am carrying or discharging dangerous goods". (Former Weapons Specialist for the USCG and had to strike this flag all the time.) As for flying it when shooting in the desert, it's not needed and I've never, ever done it. Never thought about it either since most people don't have a clue. Hell, my luck would mean someone comes to it thinking it's a water station. 
-SleeperShooter |
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Orion67 was not always as smart as he appears in his post about Red Range Flags. It took me many years to "educate" him. Then when I had done all I could I turned him over to the Marines for final honing of his skills. There is a Marine Corps Range north of Diego that is short two range flags thanks to him. One went to BSA Camp Geronimo and I have the other.
As he says, our group (family, ex-mil, local LEO) would welcome other shooters with open arms as long as the play safe. We have yet to shoot in the open desert that we did not fill our home trash cans with crap left by other shooters. |
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Original waterdog......
I believe we probably shoot at the same spot out by Superior...I live waaaay ev and this is my haunt. That area has been very busy recently, I guess a lot more people found out about it. Personally, if I go to an area where there are shooters...I keep rolling. Of, course I may stop and see if they are almost done and don't mind me waiting. |