Posted: 2/24/2009 6:33:21 PM EDT
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I have a question that I hope someone can help me with. My employer is trying to say that they have the legal right to inspect an employee’s vehicle. The purpose of these inspections would be to make sure that there are no firearms on company property. Does anyone know if this can legally be done in the state of Arizona? The company is a health club that is open to both private members and limited public. Any information would be greatly appreciated.
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I thought private citizens like a company did not have to have search warrants because it is citizen vs citiizen. Either way you have to LET them in... Tell them if they force the issue you will have a Minute Man/NRA parade acroos their parking lot but a front page spot in the AZ republic and the Factor lol.
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Recently in FL they passed a bill that stated a company could not keep an employee from storing a firearm in their car regardless of the employers "rules". They made it part of the Castle Doctrine. I know some idiots took it to court because they didn't like it but they lost.
As far as I know we have not passed such a bill here in AZ. But I'm sure it's somewhere on the AZ CDL's radar. |
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I know that on federal installations there are signs posted that you give up your rights to privacy as soon as you enter, ie, drive onto a federal compound and, under the law, they can search your vehicle. This is the case where I work.
Private/company property I have no idea, but I *suspect* not. As in, you come over to my house for dinner (private property), I tell you I want to search your car because its parked on my property, and you tell me to eff off. Not sure if the same applies to an employer's parking lot, but unless its a gov or LEO facility, I'd think your rights are secure. I am not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV. |
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Quoted: Private/company property I have no idea, but I *suspect* not. As in, you come over to my house for dinner (private property), I tell you I want to search your car because its parked on my property, and you tell me to eff off. Yes, but you can then bar me from entering your house. I suspect the employer can do the same. OP, check the employee handbook, you agreed to the terms when you took the job. |
They can't 'make' you let them into your car, but they can make it a condition of emplyment to submit to inspections. Of course, their policy had better be explicitly spelled out in the emplyee handbook, some manager can't just decide he wants to search everyone's cars one day. Plus, if you're lucky (like I am  ) your car is not parked on company property, and then they can't do jack $#it to you. If you work for LA Fitness/Bally's/whatever in some strip mall, there is a huge chance that the business just has parking rights in a lot owned by the property management company. In that case, you should be in luck. Either way though, if they're trying to disarm you, well...in this economy I guess bailing isn't a great idea, even for a job like that 
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If you work for LA Fitness/Bally's/whatever in some strip mall, there is a huge chance that the business just has parking rights in a lot owned by the property management company. In that case, you should be in luck. Either way though, if they're trying to disarm you, well...in this economy I guess bailing isn't a great idea, even for a job like that
In all likelihood they can require this until AZ gets a law that prevents it (even then I am still screwed b/c I park on fed property and there is no where I can park on private property and walk over). If you are parking in some sort of shared facility DO NOT assume they can't check you there. There was a case a few years ago like this and the employees lost. Unless AZ has some protections I am not aware of, I would not risk having anything in your car (unless you have a good hide in there - afterall their not going to do a police type search yanking parts of the car apart so if you can devise a clever hide - they will never find it). http://www.thegunzone.com/rkba/antigun-aol.html Judge rules in favor of AOL in case of employee gun ban Decision extends workplace to 350 parking stalls A 2nd District Court judge has ruled America Online was within its rights when it fired three employees for violating a ban on guns in the company's leased parking lot. The ruling in effect extended the workplace to the 350 stalls AOL leases at its Ogden call center at 2261 Grant Ave. Judge Roger Dutson said in delivering his decision that places of employment are known to be volatile places. "I don't think a worker should have to face the prospect of getting up to go to work in the morning wondering if a co-worker he's had some friction with is armed," Dutson said. You know if the judge had just said this is about private property rights of the employer, you might think this was a legitimate, if unfortunate, legal decision but this crap shows you that it was really just another gun-hating judge abusing the bench. |
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Some company sells pairs of fake "soiled" underwear to hide your valuables in while traveling. I would put your gun under those and see if your Supervisor really wants to do a thorough search of your car.
Of course, you could probably make a pair at home much cheaper. 
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Quoted:
I have a question that I hope someone can help me with. My employer is trying to say that they have the legal right to inspect an employee’s vehicle. The purpose of these inspections would be to make sure that there are no firearms on company property. Does anyone know if this can legally be done in the state of Arizona? The company is a health club that is open to both private members and limited public. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Do they have good insurance? I would name the employer and anyone in the management chain in my lawsuit. I may not win, but it won't cost me much to file and make their life miserable. I will also file a nuisance lien on their property and homes based on the "pending positive outcome" of my lawsuit. Sound like fun? Don't fuck with your employees. It is counterproductive. 
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I am an Arizona employer [only 5 employees], and I would NEVER stomp on someone's CONSTITUTIONAL rights, nor would I - as an employer - try to interpret or enforce the law - UNLESS I felt there was a threat to the safety of my shop or my customers.
BUT if a the company you work for has a written policy regarding firearms or other safety matters, I would ADHERE without making a spectacle of myself - to that policy, but perhaps park my vehicle in a place just outside the gym's property line with my firearm inside. Until I realized who among my employees was genuinely thankful to have a good job - I cautioned my crew to "during difficult economic times, we must be conspicuous by our hard work and positive attitude - or others who want/need your job will take your place". Some got the message - others got gone. My advice is to humble yourself until such time as you have an equal or better job GUARANTEED - then make a stand on your principles - instead of a stand in the unemployment line. Best of luck to you and lets remember to pray for the millions of folks who cannot tend to the needs of their families because they have lost their jobs! |
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FuckTHAT! 
Whewww, now that I've got that off my chest...... OPSEC - OPSEC - OPSEC! What they don't know about, they can't speculate about either.....right? Unless your employer is regularily conducting searches of every single employee, then I would imagine you could levy a lawsiut on the grounds of harrassment and/or hostile workplace if they're only searching your vehicle. That being said, how much do you like your employer? Do what you have to do to stay under their radar..... or comply with their Libitard policies. 
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| Unlike AOL, most small businesses DON'T lease (or have any jurisdiction over) community parking - they might, if they're lucky, have a few marked spots. If you're in a strip mall, there's no way they can say you're parked in 'their' space - more than likely, if you don't have a parking tag/sticker, you don't even have to identify your vehicle to them. I have to say though, on reflection, any essentially retail/customer service company that wants to be that conrtolling of their employees...it's not worth the hassle. |
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Just get a hidden gun safe in your vehicle and put your firearm in there. I personally wouldn't put my gun in somewhere that ISN'T secure (such as a safe) if I wasn't immediately around my vehicle.
As for the employer, without knowing which company it is, it's kinda hard to give advice. If you're going up against a major corporation w/ deep legal pockets, then I'd kinda play by their rules. Operative word being "kinda". There are plenty of small weapon safes/lockers on the market that you can hide just about anywhere. I'd suggest putting the firearm in the safe a mile or so from your work and not directly in their parking lot for obvious reasons. If you're working at a GOV place, well then your just kinda screwed. Leave it at home would be my advice. Otherwise, what's out of sight is out of mind. 
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The whole "needing a search warrant" thing only applies to a government entity. As a private company they can request that you do anything that they want, whether or not you do and whether or not you keep your job for refusing is another story. I suppose if you want to take a stand on this you can refuse, they may fire you, and you could try and sue. That will take a lot of time and money though while you are without a job.
Not saying it's right, but it's a reality. |
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In Arizona, vehicles are not considered an extension of your home. AzCDL is trying to change that, but at the moment, it is what it is. They don't need a warrant...in fact, I don't know a court that would issue a private business a government-backed search warrant. Warrants are a restriction on governments, not private entities.
If the "we can search your vehicle" is in your employee handbook, you're screwed. No, you don't have to let them in, but they don't have to let you continue to work there. I worked for a large company that had such a policy. More than a few people parked on the street to avoid just such occasions. |
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Quoted:
Just get a hidden gun safe in your vehicle and put your firearm in there. I personally wouldn't put my gun in somewhere that ISN'T secure (such as a safe) if I wasn't immediately around my vehicle. As for the employer, without knowing which company it is, it's kinda hard to give advice. If you're going up against a major corporation w/ deep legal pockets, then I'd kinda play by their rules. Operative word being "kinda". There are plenty of small weapon safes/lockers on the market that you can hide just about anywhere. I'd suggest putting the firearm in the safe a mile or so from your work and not directly in their parking lot for obvious reasons. If you're working at a GOV place, well then your just kinda screwed. Leave it at home would be my advice. Otherwise, what's out of sight is out of mind. +1 |