Posted: 2/23/2005 1:18:38 AM EDT
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Any one here done it? Specifically a Scottsdale ticket. From the research I've done so far, the best way is to simply not respond to the mailed notice. After that, don't accept any registered mail and don't answer the door to strangers asking "are you Joe Blow?". There is a guy in Cave Creek who sells info for $60 on how to beat photo radar tickets. But, I'm pretty sure his strategy is to simply avoid being served. So, help out your fellow shooter and cough up what you know about this stuff. thanks |
| We had an attorney in our old office who for $100 would file a response that the notification by mail did not constitute legal service (even theough ARS says it's OK). Every time he filed this response the Cities would drop the ticket. I think they just didn't want the expense of a fight. I'm not sure what his strategy was going to be if he made it to court. |
| I drive a car registered in my wifes name and she one registered in mine. last may she got a photo radar ticket for 12mph over the limit in scottsdale and it came addressed to me. naturally I responded that I was not the driver and the case was dismissed. photo radar is a synical stealth tax, it has nothing to do with public safety and I don't like how the contractors who own the units make money off it as well. |
I know an attorney in Tempe that says to just throw it away. He agrees that mail is not a properly served citation. He also said that, after a bunch of those, they finally decided to send somebody over on the next one. He paid it and says he has to be careful not to get any tickets for a while. 
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The guy on Cave Creek that asks $60 for his "system" is going to tell you exactly what you just said. Make like a federal witness and hide. The letter they send you IS NOT LEGAL NOTICE, there is no confirmation of your reciept, and no legal enforceability. They must serve you, or get you to aknowledge/admit that its you and you know it. I am not sure about here, but the legal standard for evidence in places like Texas is that you must identify the person, not the vehicle. Obviously the due diligence needed to proof up a case against you was not done since the registered owner is male and the photo should show a female driver (unless she has short hair and a habit of wearing a mustache). Trash it and avoid everyone, make sure your family knows to avoid everyone too!
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I talked with my attorney about how we can beat a photo ticket if I was to get one, and he said we can subpoena the device/system thta measured and photographed the vehicle, and have them verify its configured and tuned properly, in court... You know how much that would cost them to take it down and put it back up? as well as the possible lost revenue to people that wouldn't contest the ticket...? |
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You have to be served personally with a ticket for it to fly. Ignoring it could cause problems later on. I was "ticketed" by a Washington patrolman who had to leave mid-ticket due to a radio call. He said, "I'll mail you your ticket." Never did see it. When I went to renew my license it showed up as an outstanding ticket and had to be discharged. Called the court thinking here we go, they asked for the number, discharged it and sent me letter for the DMV. YMMV I did see this though. Some years ago I was in Pasadena in business. I'd parked in a large lot and as I was returning to my car the fellow in a BMW next to me was gettting "dressed". He already had on a big red rubber nose and was shaking out a bozo the clown wig. I was staring and he rolled down his window and told me he was late for a meeting and how much the photo radar in Pasadena sucked, etc. And of course he said this way "when the ticket arrives I can always say it was some clown driving and not me." And yes, he was a lawyer cause I asked as soon as he said that!!! He drove off in the wig and nose. |
My boss got one, and now he's easy to spot. Hes the guy driving the BMW M3 with the yellow motocross helmet on. They always have some sort of photo enforcement thing on W. Thunderbird and he's tired of the tickets. Hasn't gotten one since the helmet went on. And yes, he is how I know what the guy charging $60 is telling everyone. 
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If he's tired of getting tickets then he should stop breakin the law. You don't break the law and you won't get a ticket. Funny how that works isn't it. |
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I got one flashed for something like 5-6 over 4 years or so ago. It was a 40 zone and I thought it was 45. I got the mail thing, ignored. I got a second mail thing, ignored. I got a guy banging on the door, ignored. It went away. I detest photo radar. Like putting an ATM up and pulling cash out of your pocket. Put an officer on the street if you want to rack up ticket proceeds. What if the guy getting the next photo ticket was drunk and mowed down a family later on? You got him on a ticket photo box 5 minutes before and a real officer would have noticed the smell and gotten the ass off the street. Can't do that with a ticket a week later. Pure money generator, plain and simple. It's not about public safety. Red light cams are a different thing, but I still don't like them. Of course, I don't run red lights either. |
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Whoa! Someone woke up on the self righteous side of the bed today, eh? OK lets see a show of hands here: Who has NEVER done at least one of the following Exceeded the posted speed limit by any measure? Slow rolled through a stop sign? Accelerated to beat a car coming off a highway exit ramp? Changed lanes without signalling? Stopped with your front tires in a crosswalk? Drove alone down the HOV lane during the restricted hours? Now, whoever is raising their hand please go look in the mirror. YOU ARE LOOKING AT EITHER THE SECOND COMING OF JESUS, OR A FUCKING LIAR!  A member asked for advice, not to be judged. Get off your high-horse and relax. Drink a beer, watch a porno and chill out. Get mad about people that haul ass through school zones or down small residential streets, or some other more serious violations, not someone that is caught up in the greatest money making scam that municipal governments have ever come up with. Jeez, the line doesn't read "let he who forgot his sins cast the for stone." 
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Quoted: Whoa! Someone woke up on the self righteous side of the bed today, eh? OK lets see a show of hands here: Who has NEVER done at least one of the following Exceeded the posted speed limit by any measure?ok, I'm not guilty of this.. plus it hasen't been proven in a court of law, so you can't prove it Slow rolled through a stop sign? this I honestly never do, and it pisses me off to see other folks do it Accelerated to beat a car coming off a highway exit ramp?nope.. I dont do this one either, I either change lanes or let the dude in Changed lanes without signalling?this is really a law? Stopped with your front tires in a crosswalk? I stopped before the cross walk and then move forward to check for traffic Drove alone down the HOV lane during the restricted hours? nope.. I dont do that either.. then again.. when ever I drive, it's always WAY past the restricted hours.. in addition, I dont challenge yellow lights either or race to get through a freakin intersection when the light is just about to turn red.. then again... I may be Christ himself, but I fuckin doubt it |
| While some here are on holier than thou trip, consider this. If your car is registered outside of the County, no notification is mailed. That means Snowbirds, tourists and cars with Mexican plates have nothing to worry about. The Law must apply equally to everyone, except where we have employed these nifty little revenue generators. |
Well, except for trying to stop people from speeding and running red lights does ir have nothing to do with public safety. |
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What pisses me off is their definition of where the intersection begins. Most states, the intersection begins at the begining of the crosswalk. Here, it's a 'continuation of the curb line'. Ever notice how they most often install the cameras at intersections like scottsdale and Thomas, where there are turning lanes and bus cut outs? That makes the actual 'intersection' start way the fuck out in the middle of the 'intersection', not where you can run over people in the cross walk. Look in the middle of the intersection, north bound on scottsdale road at thomas. Waaaay out in the middle is the magic red line. You must be PAST this red line with the front of your vehicle before the light turns red. Even when you are waaaaaay out in the intersection, if you're not past the little red line, they will fuck you. It's about money, not running red lights. We need to change the definition of 'the begining of the intersection' from 'continuation of the curb line' to 'begining of the cross walk' and ALL those cameras would come down because they wouldn't make enough money to pay for the contractors. |
The accurate definition of intersection is the portion contained within the prolongations of the lateral curb lines. Your description of the bus lanes, and turning lanes, bears no relation to the actual position of the intersection. The red line you speak of is placed well within the intersection, and is only for extra weight in court. It is not meant as an actual indication of the intersection boundries. Title 28 only requires you to break the plane of the lateral curb line prolongations before the light turns red. If you enter the intersection after the light turns red, unless making a right turn, then you are in violation. Making the crosswalk the determinating factor of the position of an intersection is a very bad idea. |
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I got tired of being served with tickets, so I decided to just change the address on my license to a non-existent address. I still carry my old (correct address) license in my wallet and I will give it to police, etc if I actually get pulled over, but I left the incorrect address registered with the DMV. Any photo radar tickets go back to the DMV as undeliverable mail. I actually hope that the process server wastes an entire night trying to find the address on my license. I should have put something in Wickenburg if I really wanted to be a jerk. |
Now thats working the system! Very creative. |
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there is a way www.radardetectors.co.uk/target_lrc100.htm and they "WORK" dunno bout legality in US but it looks like they'll ban em soon here in the UK. As they do with everything Taffy |
Tickets are sent out to the address on the vehicle registration not your driver's license. |
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I am from Missouri and was reading here because I am planning a trip to Arizona. I am in the Kansas City area and no cities around this region use these devises. You would think a detector would be on the market for these things. I would like to know more on how these things work. As far as the public safety goes, It is a revenue generator. I am sure they will say that because they are not highly visable People do know where they are located, they will drive at the speed limit at any place and time. Therefore, they have an impact on public safety. As an LEO, I must say this is un-sporting at the least. The person who asked about drunk drivers was correct. If a real Officer stops the vehicle and to issue a summons, he would of been able to arrest the driver. It is only a matter of time until someone who needs to be stopped, gets a flash ticket instead, then kills someone. Then the wrongful cases get filed. I can see having these flash devises for red light violations but nothing more. |
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That was me who brought up the drunk driver issue. Hey, I have lived in AZ for the last 8 years and now I have to stay in Ohio to care for my ailing grandfather. As soon as his situation changes, I'm coming back to AZ. Does that make me a "bird?" I lived last year for a whole 12 months without A/C and heating due to the heat pump taking a crap and the owner refusing to repair it. The only cooling I had was evaporation of my sweat and a fan. That was hardcore. Can I qualify for dual residence? I still have a home in AZ. Photo radar is a scam, always has been and that is why there is little action to go after people who ignore the mail citation. No proof of a crime and you could probably beat it anyway by overwhelming lack of evidence. Records of maintenance, calibration, proof of delivery of your summons, chain of evidence because the photo records are not in the custody of the police or the city, but processed by the civil agency under contract to run the system. It's a nightmare for the city and a defense lawyer's dream. Bottom line, only drive as fast as you can afford. Personally for me, that is the speed limit. I can't afford any more than that. |
It's not my definition. It's the states, and it's a scam.
If it's not an 'actual' indication, why does it correspond exactly with the legal definition?
Which is where the red line is.
Why? Why would it be a bad idea? |
Right.....but when you change your license address, it also changes the address where your vehicles are registered. It cross references. |
I thought about that one. They don't allow PO Boxes on licenses though. Just use some fake BS. As long as you know when your registration is due and don't mind driving down to the DMV to manually do it, you are fine. |
Except for a little thing called fraud and falsification of state documents your fine. So if you don't mind the risk of going to jail go ahead and do it. 
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[R. Lee Ermey] Toe that line Maggot! What do you think you are - FREE? You FOLLOW that law or I'll rip your head off and sh!t down your windpipe! Good God almighty! I will NOT tolerate any individual behavior on MY Godd@mn streets! [/R. Lee Ermey] |