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Posted: 8/27/2003 9:47:59 AM EDT
I assume in repsonse to the 15 year old that was shot while lying on his stomach.

In the "Vent" column

"Three brave men armed with guns are afraid of a boy with a knife. No wonder I've never felt fear of terrorists. I've learned to fear my police more."
Link Posted: 8/27/2003 10:21:20 AM EDT

I saw news coverage of the protesters on TV yesterday. They were all carrying signs written in Spanish.

They were all shouting that the police were murderers and had license to kill... blah-blah-blah.

Of course an out of control teen with a knife is not a threat to anyone!

Link Posted: 8/27/2003 10:39:19 AM EDT
All you local LE guys know im a cop basher, but this is another case where I take the involved officers side. That little fuck deserved what he got.
Link Posted: 8/27/2003 11:41:58 AM EDT
Oh, I nearly cried after reading the parents' story in Sunday's paper
Link Posted: 8/27/2003 4:08:00 PM EDT
obviously these jack-offs never squared off against someone with a knife. Jeeze I hate people.
Link Posted: 8/27/2003 6:18:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SPINNAKER:
Jeeze I hate people.




I'll bet not as much as I do.
AB
Link Posted: 8/27/2003 7:10:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/27/2003 9:40:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SinistralRifleman:
Sounds justified to me.

Anyone 21 feet or less armed with an impact weapon attacking me is getting smoked.



Do you really think, i.e., that will hold up in court.

Dirtbag lawyer: "Ok Mr Rifleman, why did you murder this husband and father of four?"

Mr Rifleman: "Well he was within 21 feet of me with a weapon, so I killed him."

Im not trying to bust your balls or anything Russell, but come on.

Link Posted: 8/27/2003 9:48:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/27/2003 9:51:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/27/2003 10:02:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SinistralRifleman:

Originally Posted By TopCrest:

Originally Posted By SinistralRifleman:
Sounds justified to me.

Anyone 21 feet or less armed with an impact weapon attacking me is getting smoked.



Do you really think, i.e., that will hold up in court.

Dirtbag lawyer: "Ok Mr Rifleman, why did you murder this husband and father of four?"

Mr Rifleman: "Well he was within 21 feet of me with a weapon, so I killed him."

Im not trying to bust your balls or anything Russell, but come on.




Obviously you've never watched any police training videos like Surviving Edged Weapons, etc...someone with an impact weapon can cover 21 feet in the time it takes you to draw your weapon and fire, and seriously screw you up. 15 feet if the gun is already out and you are ready to fire.

21 feet is the same standard Law Enforcement uses.

In AZ you need to be in fear for your life or serious bodily injury or be shooting to stop the comission of certain felonies for a shooting to be justified.

Someone with a knife or club can easily do more damage to you if they are within 21 feet with an impact weapon, knife club etc. than you can do to them with a gun.




Yep, and under stress, your draw time considerably increases.
Link Posted: 8/28/2003 12:11:04 AM EDT
Tueller's rule hasn't shown up in any case law or precedent in AZ in the past few years, at least that I could find.

ARS speaks of "reasonable" people. Perhaps 21 feet would be a threat to a reasonable person. Are you going to base all of your shoot/no shoot judgements on this with a tape measure?

As for watching videos, I have seen Terminator 2 where a mini gun wielding cyborg shoots at but des not kill people. Perhaps that's what I'll plan on doing.
Link Posted: 8/28/2003 2:39:41 AM EDT
Impact weapon? Huh? I thought it was a knife? No?
Link Posted: 8/28/2003 6:16:33 AM EDT
This whole episode shows the really ugly side of the Entitlement Mentality so prevalent in our country these days, especially among our south of the border immigrants (although I don't know if these people were immigrants or not). They completely failed as parents and then looked to the government (in the form of the police in this case) to bail them out. The news is reporting that officers were called to their house on 5 previous occasions. Sounds like the kid got what he wanted - a successful "suicide by cop".
Link Posted: 8/28/2003 11:03:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/28/2003 1:47:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SinistralRifleman:

Anyone 21 feet or less armed with an impact weapon attacking me is getting smoked.




Originally Posted By SinistralRifleman:

Obviously if your attacker has a fire arm the rules are different.




...
Link Posted: 8/28/2003 2:01:15 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/28/2003 2:26:29 PM EDT
Want to bet on what the City of Mesa will settle with the family for? $,$$$,$$$

City of Phoenix settled in the millions after several officers shot a guy 30+ times. Bad guy fired at police with a shotgun and missed, several officers fire a volley, bad guy on his knees with holes in him still trying to rack the shotgun, cops fire another volley and he falls over. Family files a law suit claiming police brutality. City of Phoenix decides to settle in the millions of dollars and avoid trial.
Link Posted: 8/28/2003 2:44:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/28/2003 2:45:14 PM EDT by The_Macallan]

Originally Posted By SinistralRifleman:
Tell you what Ryan we'll do a little traing exercise. I think we have some simunitions left. You get the gun with the simunitions, and start with it holstered. I will start at 21 feet with one of our rubber training knives, and we will see who comes out the victor.





How fast can a medium-speed operator cover 21'?

Link Posted: 8/28/2003 2:48:30 PM EDT
Dont waste the sims quite yet Russ. Im going to drag Ryan to a CCW course sometime next month if he wants to or not. Then you can cap his ass with a sim. But please aim low.
Link Posted: 8/28/2003 3:03:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SinistralRifleman:

Originally Posted By TopCrest:

Originally Posted By SinistralRifleman:

Anyone 21 feet or less armed with an impact weapon attacking me is getting smoked.




Originally Posted By SinistralRifleman:

Obviously if your attacker has a fire arm the rules are different.




...



What so hard to understand?

Someone with a firearm is a threat at any distance. Someone with a knife or club is a threat if they are 21 feet or less from you.

Tell you what Ryan we'll do a little traing exercise. I think we have some simunitions left. You get the gun with the simunitions, and start with it holstered. I will start at 21 feet with one of our rubber training knives, and we will see who comes out the victor.



I completely misunderstood you.

Otherwise, I am so down.
Link Posted: 8/28/2003 4:38:09 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 6:24:57 AM EDT
GODDAMN...and I thought MY legs were white!!!!!
Link Posted: 8/31/2003 3:26:43 AM EDT
I'd like to add that if you are carrying concealed then you probably have to make it a little bit more than 21 feet. However, turning, running away while drawing your CCW probably would give you a little bit of extra time and it would add to your defence.

"So why did you shoot this father of 4?"

He came at me with a knife, I turned and ran but he kept chasing me, so I drew my gun and shot him.


I guess you could also just whip it out and pistol whip the guy. That would be a funny story.
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