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AR15.COM
7/16/2007 3:12:50 PM EDT
Does anyone have a link to the paperwork that needs to be filed, and some "how to register yourself as an LLC for some cool toys" directions for dummies?

Jay
7/16/2007 3:36:39 PM EDT
[#1]
www.sos.state.oh.us/SOSApps/SOS/FormRefbs.aspx

Just make sure to do search of the name you want use.
7/16/2007 3:41:46 PM EDT
[#2]
Thanks

Jay
7/18/2007 12:30:37 PM EDT
[#3]
OK, I have another question...

Would I be better filing for an LLC or trust?  If I decide to go with a trust,  should a have a lawyer write it up worded to where it is for NFA items?  I was wondering if that may help me out if I was ever audited.


Jay
7/18/2007 1:04:51 PM EDT
[#4]
I would recommend the LLC.
7/18/2007 3:01:18 PM EDT
[#5]

Quoted:
I would recommend the LLC.


What makes it better?

Jay
7/18/2007 6:58:54 PM EDT
[#6]
I'd like to know as well.
7/18/2007 7:57:45 PM EDT
[#7]
ATF is starting to look the issue of whether a trust is in fact a legal entity. There may or may not be a real shitty ruling on trusts coming down the pike soon.
7/19/2007 12:38:10 PM EDT
[#8]
And if the wonderful lawmakers decide one day that we cant transfer MGs to each other, you can always sell the LLC to another person
7/19/2007 1:26:08 PM EDT
[#9]

Quoted:
And if the wonderful lawmakers decide one day that we cant transfer MGs to each other, you can always sell the LLC to another person


Very good point, Bryan.  I guess you aren't as dumb as you look.  

Jay
7/19/2007 4:35:46 PM EDT
[#10]

Quoted:

Quoted:
And if the wonderful lawmakers decide one day that we cant transfer MGs to each other, you can always sell the LLC to another person


Very good point, Bryan.  I guess you aren't as dumb as you look.  

Jay


7/20/2007 7:49:56 AM EDT
[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:
And if the wonderful lawmakers decide one day that we cant transfer MGs to each other, you can always sell the LLC to another person


Very good point, Bryan.  I guess you aren't as dumb as you look.  

Jay


You can do this now.  Have one machine gun in a LLC and sell the LLC at any time.  No more $200 tax to be paid ever.
7/20/2007 11:26:23 AM EDT
[#12]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
And if the wonderful lawmakers decide one day that we cant transfer MGs to each other, you can always sell the LLC to another person


Very good point, Bryan.  I guess you aren't as dumb as you look.  

Jay


You can do this now.  Have one machine gun in a LLC and sell the LLC at any time.  No more $200 tax to be paid ever.


I think he understands that.  He was saying that you could still sell your NFA items as the entire LLC if the transfer of NFA weapons was outlawed.

Jay
7/20/2007 11:33:45 AM EDT
[#13]
Yeah I forgot about mentioning the fact that you wouldnt have to pay for the tax again.

I just see that as the best point if they outlaw the transfer of NFA items in the future. When I go to get some here in the near future, each one will be its own LLC
7/23/2007 1:18:10 PM EDT
[#14]

Quoted:

I can assure you it is not isolated, and it will probably get worse before it gets better. I tried to point this out a couple weeks ago, but virtually noone paid attention. Due to the influx of Trusts lately, ATF is going to be taking action to verify that they are legally binding Trusts. One way to do this is to require complete Trust documentation (meaning the Declaration of Trust and not just the Certification of Trust) and then having ATF legal study the individual State laws. I would HIGHLY recommend having a competent lawyer do your Trust, and not rely on a $20 software package. I'm coming to find out there are states that actually require that you file with the State in a similar manner as a Corp has to. There are other states that prohibit you from being the sole Grantor, Trustee, and Beneficiary in the Trust (VA and SC come to mind). All of the reviewing that ATF counsel is going to have to do, is probably going to slow down the transfers on Trusts as well.

Just a heads up - not saying it's right or wrong, just saying a Trust is a powerful thing, and I would make sure if you are putting many thousands of dollars worth of NFA in them, that they are done correctly.
7/23/2007 5:33:56 PM EDT
[#15]
7/24/2007 7:35:51 AM EDT
[#16]
I'm still going to go the trust route when I finally get my SBR and can.

Again, the issue isn't whether the trust is a legal entity or not but rather is the trust setup properly.  This is why, as mentioned above, it's best to spend a few $$ on a competent lawer to get it setup properly.  

Even if you go with an LLC you should still consult lawyer to ensure it's setup properly and possibly even an accountant to make sure it's maintained properly.  I assure you if anything is fishy if the ATF ever looks into your corp  the consequences will be about the same as an improperly setup trust.

I personally, like the trust better because once it's "properly" setup I won't have to worry about maintaining it like a corp.  Regardless, everyone needs to decide what entity is best for them and their NFA needs and use what works best for them...
7/24/2007 9:21:32 AM EDT
[#17]
What all is required to maintain an LLC?

Jay
7/24/2007 9:38:20 AM EDT
[#18]
file a schedule c with zeros with your normal taxes and you are good.
7/24/2007 9:40:11 AM EDT
[#19]

Quoted:
file a schedule c with zeros with your normal taxes and you are good.


huh?

Jay
7/24/2007 12:20:18 PM EDT
[#20]

Quoted:
sounds like tax evasion.


Nope.  The ownership has not changed.  The LLC still owns the weapon.  Only the owner of the LLC has changed.
7/24/2007 12:21:10 PM EDT
[#21]

Quoted:

Quoted:
ATF is starting to look the issue of whether a trust is in fact a legal entity. There may or may not be a real shitty ruling on trusts coming down the pike soon.


The issue isn't whether or not a trust is a legal entity, it is to determine if the trusts that are being sent in are actually valid trusts.


Exactly.  To outlaw trust ownership would require a law change.
7/24/2007 12:57:13 PM EDT
[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:
file a schedule c with zeros with your normal taxes and you are good.


huh?

Jay


When you file your taxes you basicly put down zeros, you didnt make any money so you dont owe any.
7/24/2007 1:07:58 PM EDT
[#23]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
file a schedule c with zeros with your normal taxes and you are good.


huh?

Jay


When you file your taxes you basicly put down zeros, you didnt make any money so you dont owe any.


Gotcha

Jay