Posted: 7/22/2012 2:43:53 PM EDT
|
First, greetings to fellow inmates of Kalifornia!
My son in law has a RAW that he bought when they were "blowing out" $400. ARs for $650 right before the ban. He and my daughter are moving to a location where he won't be able to secure the rifle, he was storing it in a room mates safe at their soon to be former residence. He has asked if he could store the rifle in my safe, providing a copy of his paperwork from the DOJ regarding the RAW and an affidavit from him stating that the unit is in my possession for the expressed purpose of safe storage only. Does anybody have any out there have experience w/ this situation or KNOW about the legality of storage of a RAW for another person for the purpose of safe storage? OR would he be better off stripping and selling the parts and surrendering the lower ( I suggested in 2 pieces ) to the authorities? The rifle in question is a franken gun built on an Oly arms lower.w/ a no-name upper. |
|
Not a lawyer, just a RAW owner myself. The old law for storage fell under CA PC 12285. The Penal Code numbers were change this year, and I don't know the new section, but the verbiage should be the same:
CA PC 12285(c) A person who has registered an assault weapon or registered a .50 BMG rifle under this section may possess it only under any of the following conditions unless a permit allowing additional uses is first obtained under Section 12286:
(1) At that person's residence, place of business, or other property owned by that person, or on property owned by another with the owner's express permission. (2) While on the premises of a target range of a public or private club or organization organized for the purpose of practicing shooting at targets. (3) While on a target range that holds a regulatory or business license for the purpose of practicing shooting at that target range. (4) While on the premises of a shooting club which is licensed pursuant to the Fish and Game Code. (5) While attending any exhibition, display, or educational project which is about firearms and which is sponsored by, conducted under the auspices of, or approved by a law enforcement agency or a nationally or state recognized entity that fosters proficiency in, or promotes education about, firearms. (6) While on publicly owned land if the possession and use of a firearm described in Section 12276,12276.1, or 12278, is specifically permitted by the managing agency of the land. (7) While transporting the assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle between any of the places mentioned in this subdivision, or to any licensed gun dealer, as defined in subdivision (c) of Section 12290, for servicing or repair pursuant to subdivision (b) of Section 12290, if the assault weapon is transported as required by Section 12026.1. Not very clear on the storage part, but it does mention "on property owned by another with the owner's express permission." That does not mean others can use it without the owner being present. Don't take it out to the range on your own, or even use it for HD. As for the RAW, I wouldn't turn it in. If he really wants it and it needs to be with him break it down to the lower take off the stock and store just the lower in a shoe box or something. I have a couple of Oly lowers I registered as RAW's. Looking back, I wished I spent the extra $$$ and bought better lowers. The Oly's are okay, but seem to have tolerance issues. If the issues are addressed (loose trigger/hammer pin holes, tight mag wells) they can be made into decent AR's. I have one Oly with a BCM upper that runs great. |
|
My undersranding is that only he can have access to it, and it's presence in your house without him being there, is a felony. Any affivavit from him will be without merritte. Without your name on the RAW document means YOU are in possession of an unregistered Assault Weapon.
There might be an argument for it being locked in a seperate safe that you do not have access to, but I think that would ne a very big streatch of Kalifornia law; especially if he establishes residancy outside of Kalifornia. Some of the fine attornies that regularly click in here may have a different view; I hope they do. |
|
'Tis just a thought.................... if the rifle does not have a magic trigger or a rock star selector, then maybe he just puts a bullshit button into the rifle, and you then store it for him???...
Since you are not doing anything to drag a full LEO tossing of your life, any rifle so equipped is for the most part, just a rifle. He should keep his Hi-cap mags at his place, and you should just keep a 10 rounder with it. If you were to sore it for him. 
|
|
Quoted:
'Tis just a thought.................... if the rifle does not have a magic trigger or a rock star selector, then maybe he just puts a bullshit button into the rifle, and you then store it for him???... Since you are not doing anything to drag a full LEO tossing of your life, any rifle so equipped is for the most part, just a rifle. He should keep his Hi-cap mags at his place, and you should just keep a 10 rounder with it. If you were to sore it for him. If the rifle has an Off-List lower that qualifed as an AW because of "Evil Features", a BB conversion will work fine. Then declassify it from a RAW to a normal rifle (which is a one way trip) and you should be good to go; as long as you never remove the BB at a later time. If the rifle has an On-List lower, there is no relief; it will always be (in Kalifornia anyway) an AW, no matter what you do to remove the evil features. The Hi Cap Mags are not a problem for any RAW, but they could be in a BB weapon. Opinions vary, but the general consesus here seems to be that a Hi Cap Mag in a BB weapon is asking for trouble, even if you can prove (probably after confiscation) that the rifle and the mags were purchased well before the ban. Keep in mind the spirit of the Kalifornia AW Ban's agenda; which is take ALL of these rifles away from everyone. The registration process was only there to get around the unenforcable (and probably very dangerous) process of confiscating the legally held rifles up to that final day, but not a day after. The laws of possession are very restrictive, and were also made very clear to all of the gradfathered owners who did register them; absentee RAW ownership is not one of them. |
|
A RAW can't ever be replaced with another RAW, so if he has it, he should never give it up.
If you are concerned and don't want to store it, tell him to disassemble the upper from the lower, remove the stock, and put one of these things on it: LOCK put it in cardboard box, tape up the box, and go to a bank and get a safe deposit box and store it himself. The cost is pretty cheap depending on the bank. It is safe and he does not give up what he is entitled to own by complying with CA's bullshit laws. I had a friend that moved in to UC campus faculty housing that is a gun free zone and that is what he did with his RAWs. You can keep his upper and stock, or he can keep it himself as parts aren't firearms, they are non-serialized parts. Every time a RAW is turned over to police, the guy who does it will have a permanent mental image of Dianne Feinstein naked every time he closes his eyes. Not a pretty picture. |
|
IANAL, but II don't think it is kosher for him to leave the gun with you. The way the property exemption reads to me is that he can have the gun on your property. He is possessing it on your property. If he leaves, he isn't possessing it anymore, you are. IDK if a way around that would be to maybe lock the lower in a small lock box that only he has access to?? Mark of "Property of XXX." Maybe if the lower is not a named category 2 AW, bullet button it so it isn't an AW anymore? Just some ideas here.
Describe this location where he can't secure it. Just so long as possession of the firearm isn't illegal where ever this is, there is no reason to turn it in and probably a way around it.. "Securing" it could be as simple as taking the gun apart, and locking up the registered lower in one of those micro vaults. Give us detail on this location and why he can't secure it, and maybe somebody will have a better option for you. Quoted:
A RAW can't ever be replaced with another RAW, so if he has it, he should never give it up. Every time a RAW is turned over to police, the guy who does it will have a permanent mental image of Dianne Feinstein naked every time he closes his eyes. Not a pretty picture. This is true. Happened to guy I know, wasn't ever the same after that. Quoted:
That last comment was uncalled for. Sure was. True story. |
|
I'm confused about the definition of "possess" as it relates to this law.
I had thought a registered AW allowed the owner to "possess" the weapon in the state California. In this case, possess means to have ownership. The law seems clear that an owner can't lend out a RAW without being present, or leave it at a non-RAW FFL dealer, or drive around with it in the trunk of a car. It doesn't make sense for a RAW to be with the owner at all times. The law lists a few places the weapon can be "possessed" at: residence, place of business, owned property, or property owned by another with permission. It is vague on the concept of storage. If a person can have it at their residence, what happens when they leave to work and leave the RAW behind? Does their family member at home now "possess" it? Nothing is mentioned about needing to lock the RAW away from the other household members. Of course common sense would be to let everyone else living there know not to use the RAW. So, if this type of "possession" (storage) is okay within the law, how is it any different than the "possession" (storage) where the weapon is left at another property with permission? I'm just asking for input also. Again, not a lawyer or a Constitutional Law Scholar. |