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AR15.COM
12/7/2010 6:48:24 AM EDT
I am not a California resident.  It is likely I will be inheriting a Mini 14 very soon.  It is owned by my relative, a California resident, who just died.

Is there any legal reason as far as California law is concerned that I can not simply take possession and haul it out of the state with me without any paperwork?

Thanks
12/7/2010 8:11:36 AM EDT
[#1]
If you don't get an answer here you can also try calguns.net for specific California gun laws.
12/7/2010 9:01:27 AM EDT
[#2]
1.  Let's assume the Mini14 is not a CA-defined assault weapon (i.e, has a regularrifle stock, and no
flash hider).  If it is other than that it needs to be converted into compliant form BEFORE BEING
BROUGHT BACK INTO CA.  Can't bring the hicap mags back into CA (except as broken-down parts
kits that remain disassembled).

2.  "Inheriting" a firearm loosens various xfer restrictions both in CA and under Federal law.  Problem is,
folks think "grandpa's gettin' old and wants me to have his guns when I come out this summer" is an
actual inheritance - wrong.  Grandpa has to be cold and dead.

"Inheritance" also means that you are getting the gun thru a proper reading of the will/bequest, or thru
the state's (whereever gramps was a resident) laws of 'intestate succession' if he didn't have a will.
Just grabbing the gun as part of a free for all while your sister takes the China, and your cousin gets
the tractor, etc. - even if you all agree and don't dispute  - doesn't cut it as far as 18 USC 922.  In
many cases it could turn out that such laws say party X gets the gun (or party Y gets the 'residual'
assets) in a will and then you end up getting the gun FROM THEM and NOT really from gramps, which
means running thru an FFL is required.

So you need to really find out if you are FORMALLY entitled, under estate laws of that state, to get
that gun.  Some wills do allow the executor to distribute assets as (s)he sees fit and I think that
would suffice to avoid issues.

IF you are indeed legally inheriting the gun, you are both

(1) exempt from Fed law per 18 USC 922 - I think it's paragraph (g) -  requiring use of an FFL.  Go pick it
up.  (In theory the executor could ship it to you but most shippers (UPS, FedEx, etc.) panic when they
see a gun is being sent to a non-FFL.)

(2) exempt under CA law from using an FFL since under 12078 (way down the list) there's an exemptions
for probate/'operation of law' matters.  

(3)  For #2 above, while you don't need to use an FFL to get inherited/bequeathed property, if the gun is a
handgun you must have a valid, current HSC card and file "operation of law" paperwork with the CA DOJ
Firearms Bureau within 30 days - there's a $19 fee (can't remember if it's per handgun or not),   There is
no such 'papering' requirement for long guns.   The gun must however be legal in CA  (not an assault weapon,
not an illegal handgun like a Taurus Judge, not a modern SBR/SBS, etc.)

So please find out if you REALLY are a 'true' inheritor/bequest recipient.  If there's handwaving or a free for
all, you're likely not.  If not, have it sent back to a CA FFL (in CA-legal form) and DROS it.


Bill Wiese
San Jose CA








12/7/2010 11:25:47 AM EDT
[#3]
Wow Bill thaink you very much for such a thoughtfull answer.

I really appreciate it.  I will check out those potential issues you mentioned.

Thanks again!

Rod
12/10/2010 11:18:45 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:


(2) exempt under CA law from using an FFL since under 12078 (way down the list) there's an exemptions
for probate/'operation of law' matters.  


Bill Wiese
San Jose CA


Bill,

The exception for bequests is limited by12078(c)(2)(C)(3) to immediate family members.  It's the same section that covers intra-family transfers.  It would apply to transfers within California but I don't think it would apply to transfers to out of state parties.

12/10/2010 11:40:46 AM EDT
[#5]
EODguy,

EODguy wrote:
The exception for bequests is limited by12078(c)(2)(C)(3) to immediate family members.
It's the same section that covers intra-family transfers.


Yes, there are quite a few duplicative items in 12078. The fact that it is codified where you point out
should be regarded as emphasis as opposed to uniqueness.  
 

12070. (a) No person shall sell, lease, or transfer firearms unless he or she has been issued
a license pursuant to Section 12071. Any person violating this section is guilty of a misdemeanor.

(b) Subdivision (a) does not include any of the following:

(1) The sale, lease, or transfer of any firearm by a person acting pursuant to operation of law, a court
order, or pursuant to the Enforcement of Judgments Law (Title 9 (commencing with Section 680.010)
of Part 2 of the Code of Civil Procedure), or by a person who liquidates a personal firearm collection
to satisfy a court judgment.
.
.
(c)(2) As used in this section, "operation of law" includes, but is not limited to, any of the following:
.
.
12078.
(i) (1) Subdivision (d) of Section 12072 shall not apply to a person who takes title or possession of a firearm
that is not a handgun by operation of law if the person is not prohibited by Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this
code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code from possessing firearms.

(2) Subdivision (d) of Section 12072 shall not apply to a person who takes title or possession of a handgun by
operation of law if the person is not prohibited by Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103
of the Welfare and Institutions Code from possessing firearms and all of the following conditions are met:
 
(A) If the person taking title or possession is neither a levying officer as defined in Section 481.140, 511.060, or
680.210 of the Code of Civil Procedure nor a person who is receiving that firearm pursuant to subparagraph (G),
(I), or (J) of paragraph (2) of subdivision (u), the person shall, within 30 days of taking possession, forward by
prepaid mail or deliver in person to the Department of Justice, a report of information concerning the individual
taking possession of the firearm, how title or possession was obtained and from whom, and a description of
the firearm in question. The reports that individuals complete pursuant to this paragraph shall be provided to
them by the department.

(B) If the person taking title or possession is receiving the firearm pursuant to subparagraph (G) of paragraph (2)
of subdivision (u), the person shall do both of the following:
(i) Within 30 days of taking possession, forward by prepaid mail or deliver in person to the department,
a report of information concerning the individual taking possession of the firearm, how title or possession
was obtained and from whom, and a description of the firearm in question. The reports that individuals
complete pursuant to this paragraph shall be provided to them by the department.
(ii) Prior to taking title or possession of the firearm, the person shall obtain a handgun safety certificate.



Execution of estate per probate court orders or follow laws of intestate succession is clearly an 'operation of law'
matter and we also can see the "but is not limited to" phrasing encompassing a variety of situations besides the
listed ones.

EOD_Guy wrote:
It would apply to transfers within California but I don't think it would apply to transfers to out of state parties.


1. We know the Feds don't care due to 18 USC 922 estate/bequest exemption for non-FFL usage.

2. CA doesn't care about the Fed law (look how DOJ says intrafamily xfers are legal, paper-free, even
when crossing state lines, much to BATF's chagrin.)    This roughly parallels the 'intrafamily interstate'
situation -  but use of an FFL is not required for 'operation of law';   I believe CA law is not sensitive to
to the location of decedent.

-Bill